Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Aldo Hawk]

the point is he is wrong, they are the same race

Hello?

Blood elves are High elves by race.

Blood elves -DO NOT- call themselves High elves.

The 'High elf experience' -is not- available to be played, the Blood elf on horde are what is available.

It's so linear that it's worrying to see someone so willingly drifting out of the lane. It's simple as those books with uncolored drawings for kids to paint without getting outside the borders. Easy to understand as a BLTC sandwich which goes: Bacon ---> Lettuce ---> Tomato ---> Cheese.

Seriously, you are not being taken in a serious manner by faulting to a simple equation as that.

Get. It. Right. Damn!

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I have one person on ignore. It is not because he is rude, there are individuals who are rude who I have not ignored. Nor is it because he is a fantastic debater, I class Garfurion as one of the better pro High Elf debaters in this forum and he is not on ignore. The individual I have on ignore is on ignore for two specific reasons, which I am not going to get into on a public forum as that is not the point and would be rightfully classes as an ad hominem attack. I make this response in case you believe I am hiding from something, which is not the case.

Nobody said you ignored anyone because you couldn't answer back. Why bring that up? Well maybe i have an idea.

You also answered with being fearful of making an ad hominem attack or something while evading the quotation entirely by citing a seemingly unrelated personal thing.

You don't need to hide to... actually hide. You just have to make evasive responses with red herrings while twisting actual rightful points and moving goalposts constantly towards those exact same things.

That's how you can simply go on and on. You started the maddened idea that if Void elves could add more to their ranks they would outnumber High elves, while moorgard stated that they don't recruit but accept individuals searching for them, clearly stating it would not be a massive event. And also while ignoring High elves already had a population that by a common standard is enough to be playable. Tell me how many Bilgewater goblins are out there, how many Darkspear trolls, how many Mag'har orc from Draenor escaped. A village, a literal village of Mag'har orcs. High elves have enough population to have different groups within themselves, an army and civilians, tell me how a population lower than a squad or a village or a bombarded ship survivors or a decimated tribe can have that.

Of course this is just another demonstration of double standards of someone who labelled DeicideUH as pedantic and arrogant because he doesn't believe these kind of things.

And of course this continues with the plain half lies such as High elves being already available to be played or the possibility of Void elves being enough to fulfill the High elf fantasy within the Alliance.

You have to face it and come into conclusion that the only important thing about High elves becoming playable is this idea of a faction barrier. And even that is a weak one because a faction is what it's members make of it, Alliance High elves included. When Ion got interviewed and answered about instanced content between factions he -specifically- answered about players, just -you- twisted it to mean anything else. Here is the interview where he answers about that: https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman.../#3fafe65ea0e1

Hazzikostas: Honestly I think that's extremely unlikely for a few reasons. The Alliance-Horde divide is something that's integral to Warcraft. It's integral to the franchise, to the world, integral to World of Warcraft. The mercenary mode, it's very fourth-wall breaking, there's an artifice to it. But the premise is, you are disguising yourself. You're transforming into a member of the Alliance. And it's for random match activity only.

Blah blah blah...

Mercenary mode, even on the PvP side, is not designed to create social connections. This is not letting you make friends on the Horde, if you were Alliance or vice versa, who you're going to PvP with. It's just getting you a random battleground faster. Whereas the barriers for things like Mythic Plus groups or Mythic raiding guilds, those require that sustained ongoing social connection that's incompatible with the Horde-Alliance division that is so integral to World of Warcraft.

Factions and it's members are two separate things, it's members are the ones who makes the factions, not the other way around.

High elves are Alliance members you like it or not, the HE AR cannot damage factions in any way. A faction is what it's members make of it. If High elves are Alliance, then they -are- another aspect of the Alliance, and not the horde. Because in the horde, there -are- the Blood elves. Who are a different group of Thalassians. The HE request has it's -motives- to exist, if the lore didn't backed that up in the slightest then you could speak of actually just wanting the model or taking anything from the horde, which given the... not current, but continuous circumstances since the very start, is absolutely not the case.

[Ielenia]

Technically, they're a different species.

I don't think so.

I think worgen can only be considered a "different race/species" if what makes them different (the worgen curse) can be passed down to their children. Which I've seen no indication that it does... nor that it should. It'd be like saying if a man or a woman gets a tattoo... then his/her child would be born already sporting the same tattoo.

[Aldo Hawk]

I don't think so.

I think worgen can only be considered a "different race/species" if what makes them different (the worgen curse) can be passed down to their children. Which I've seen no indication that it does... nor that it should. It'd be like saying if a man or a woman gets a tattoo... then his/her child would be born already sporting the same tattoo.

Wasn't it that they can't pass it to their children through a passive action and it is something they let adults to decide? Like passing the curse or something like that through a bite?

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It's not irrelevant, no matter how hard you wish it to be. The high elf community is asking for high elves, not blood elves. And yet, with your constantly 'blood elves are high elves', you continue to imply that all high elves as being blood elves. They're not. There is a distinction between the two, that makes them want high elves.


But not all high elves are blood elves.

No, he doesn't refer to that when he says 'Blood elves are High elves', what he means is that by his standards the High elves are already playable. Which we already know it is just a lie that's too easy to make and sounds like it is plausible.

[Ielenia]

Wasn't it that they can't pass it to their children through a passive action and it is something they let adults to decide? Like passing the curse or something like that through a bite?

I think it boils down to "is it naturally passed to their off-spring on conception?" to be considered a "new race", at least to me. I mean, getting a tattoo, coloring your hair or losing a limb aren't exactly things that you pass to your off-spring.

[Aldo Hawk]

the point is he is wrong, they are the same race

He isn't.

you are again using the false equivalence

Not, because:

you are trying to compare blood elves and high elves to maghar orcs and green orcs, or other allied race like taurens and highmountains this is wrong,

you can compare a BE and HE dilema with Warsong orcs and Frostwolf orcs, both are the exactly same race of orc but from different groups, exactly like the elves

the rest is not my problem and i don't want dig in the rabbit hole.

Those two examples are still two pairs of different groups, call it whatever you like.

it actually means everything, because all allied races are not the same biological race they came from, they have distinguishable differences in their appearance both by magic ways or biology, making then different.

i already answer about this false equivalence in the post above

It's called an -Allied- race for a reason, they aren't literal Sub-races.

Btw damn Kul'tirans.

[Anoikis]

526 pages and all I read is:
mimimi, we need ̶b̶̶l̶̶o̶̶o̶̶d̶ high elves for alliance.
And it will never happen. Deal with it.

[Alixie]

they don't because they are not the same race of humans, clearly they have differences and lore to proof that

All humans belong to the same race: (species) Humans. Word of God confirmed this.

Warcraft Humans do not have ethnicities because they do not separate themselves by physical characteristics. For example:
Taelia Fordragon is from Lordaeron.
Flynn Fairwind is from Kul Tiras.
Danath Trollbane is from Arathor.
Genn Greymane is from Guilneas.

All resemble "Stormwind Humans". Humans of different skin colors and body types are represented throughout the Human Kingdoms. This is most obvious in Kul Tiras. Humans separate themselves by nationalities, or Kingdoms, but are all still confirmed as one human race. Humans from Guilneas, Kul Tiras, and Stormwind, are different fractions, but they are the same race/species.

Remember, this is the original argument; We cant have multiple playable versions of the same race. High Elf/High Elf. But the 3 playable versions of Humans and Pandaren prove otherwise.

This is also the second major argument; People of the same race must be uniform in appearance. Again, the Humans prove that members of the same race can look different than each other, without the excuse of magical transformation or drinking irradiated water.

the difference from a high elf to a blood elf is the same of a human in the old town and a human in the mage quarter, none

This is where arguments turn into 10 page long circular arguments because there's no agreement about clans, tribes, and fractions. Elves are the polar opposite of Humans. They separate themselves by everything, including physical appearance. The irony is that players insist that all elves are the same, when elves would cut your face for conflating them all together, lowborne scum.

In conclusion, if you believe that we cant have two playable versions of the same race, or that everyone of that race must look the exact same, then Humans prove you wrong. And if you agree that multiple playable versions of the same race work because they are separated by clans or nationalities, then High Elves will work. At least with High Elves, they have different political affiliations, when all Humans belong to the same fraction.

[Aldo Hawk]

Again, you are using the false equivalence, dwarves and orcs are already in a distinction of genre, not just specie

Green orc and maghar orc are both orcs, both not the same specie of orcs, they have not just decades of racial difference they also came from another reality and didn't suffer the effects of corruptions by drinking demon blood

Meanwhile Warsong orcs and frostwolves orcs are both orcs YET the same specie of orcs, they just chose to rename themselves in another clan(group)

XD This has to be a joke. Both of them -are- the same species, a change in skin color due to fel corruption do not change their species, and even taking into consideration that we don't know jack shit about WoW DNA of races and if fel corruption modifies their DNA we can't 100% assure they even are a different race, except if we specifically talk about Blackrock orcs, that without any kind of corruption already had visible differences.

And don't even try to bring up their green children. Fel corruption is... well... a corruption, it does pass as a kind of disease. Can't even confirm it is due to them being a different race lol...

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I think it boils down to "is it naturally passed to their off-spring on conception?" to be considered a "new race", at least to me. I mean, getting a tattoo, coloring your hair or losing a limb aren't exactly things that you pass to your off-spring.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Worgen_curse

Well then it seems Worgen is just the transformation Gilneans can have through the curse, and not a race by itself, it's druidical by definition. So Gilneans are not a new race, but just humans that can transform into beasts. Cool!

Btw i would love to see playable Gilneans being able to fight without the worgen form, so we can have 'plain' human druids.

And Night elf worgen, that would be so cool *_*...

[ddi2]

Yes, they are.

Chris Metzen himself said it in 2005.
Ion Hazzikostas said it again in 2017.

Ion Hazzikostas repeated himself in 2018.

Three very explicit statements, over 12 years apart, all saying the same thing. Who are you to say they are wrong? This is why I said your attitude on this matter is arrogant, that you say something and expect us to treat it as more authentic than what the people who built the world are saying.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Light following, magic using, traditional Tolkien style Elves. The sort of option every self respecting fantasy MMO offers. It just so happens that in this particular universe, they fight beside the Orcs and against the Humans.

A fading group of refugees who cling to a vanishing past do not have primacy over that group.

As for 'High Elf places are hostile to you', is the Sunwell hostile to Horde players? Is Eversong Woods? Is Silvermoon City?

The Horde does fight high elves, for Alliance High Elves ARE High Elves too.

Traitorous ones. The vast majority of the high elves still serve their people as a part of that Horde.



The Void Elves do not have a civilian population. Nor do they have a large one. They have been defined as a small, elite squad. The difference between Void Elves and Alliance High Elves is that an explanation has been given as to why there are more of them, that they can convert other Elves who seek them out. Therefore a Blood Elf or an Alliance High Elf might just simply decide to switch to wield the powers of the void, and after a short interval of time they would become a Void Elf. There is no mystery as to why there will always be more Void Elves, as new ones can be said to be tempted at a fairly consistent pace.

Alliance High Elves do not have this option. While defections are hypothetically possible, none has ever been depicted. Reproduction would take a lot of time, and we have been told so often that the Alliance High Elf population is tiny that we have to assume there isn't much of a base there to grow from. That, and Elisande chose her words carefully. They are accused of mingling with lesser races and diluting the bloodline, which is clearly code getting too close to humanity and propagating Half Elves.

What are the high elf settlements?

[Obelisk Kai]

They. Are. Not.

The very game makes a distinction. The novels and short stories make distinction.

As Horde, you fight high elves. High elf places are hostile to you.

Repeating the same lie again and again does not make it true. Blood elves are not high elves, not anymore. Their paths diverged a decade ago.

Yes, they are.

Chris Metzen himself said it in 2005. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3uz...w&index=3&t=0s

Ion Hazzikostas said it again in 2017. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkdTS_8Y61Q

Ion Hazzikostas repeated himself in 2018. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUik9-2ygS8

Three very explicit statements, over 12 years apart, all saying the same thing. Who are you to say they are wrong? This is why I said your attitude on this matter is arrogant, that you say something and expect us to treat it as more authentic than what the people who built the world are saying.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves. Light following, magic using, traditional Tolkien style Elves. The sort of option every self respecting fantasy MMO offers. It just so happens that in this particular universe, they fight beside the Orcs and against the Humans.

A fading group of refugees who cling to a vanishing past do not have primacy over that group.

As for 'High Elf places are hostile to you', is the Sunwell hostile to Horde players? Is Eversong Woods? Is Silvermoon City?

The Horde does fight high elves, for Alliance High Elves ARE High Elves too.

Traitorous ones. The vast majority of the high elves still serve their people as a part of that Horde.

Yeah, because suddenly there are thousands of exiles interested in being dipped into void juice and risk corruption. Including civilian population like bakers or smiths, and soldiers like rangers or warriors, who never had a lot of interest in arcane but suddenly are itching to be infused with the most dangerous type of magic ever until their skin turns blue and their thoughts are not their own anymore.

And they'll all live in some tents in a rock in space.

But there's too few high elves. Makes sense.

The Void Elves do not have a substantial civilian population, they can't because they do not have a large one, I can only think of that innkeeper near the embassy in fact. They have been defined as a small, elite squad. The difference between Void Elves and Alliance High Elves is that an explanation has been given as to why there are more of them, that they can convert other Elves who seek them out. Therefore a Blood Elf or an Alliance High Elf might just simply decide to switch to wield the powers of the void, and after a short interval of time they would become a Void Elf. There is no mystery as to why there will always be more Void Elves, as new ones can be said to be tempted at a fairly consistent pace.

Alliance High Elves do not have this option. While defections are hypothetically possible, none has ever been depicted. Reproduction would take a lot of time, and we have been told so often that the Alliance High Elf population is tiny that we have to assume there isn't much of a base there to grow from. That, and Elisande chose her words carefully. They are accused of mingling with lesser races and diluting the bloodline, which is clearly code getting too close to humanity and propagating Half Elves.

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Hence: hypothesis!

Dude. Hypothesis are unconfirmed by nature. When you confirm a hypothesis, it's no longer a hypothesis. it becomes a fact.

Again, do I really need to list word definitions?

Then what are we arguing over on this particular back and forth? Could it happen? Yes, but we have no evidence it ever has.

Yes, they can. They're the writers of the game's lore. They can do literally anything they want, story-wise. Mention a group of high-elves that wasn't mentioned before to boost their numbers? They can! Pull high elves from another dimension? Of course! Make the blood elf society have a huge internal dispute that makes many of those elves leave Silvermoon and join the high elves? Easily!

Well, yes, THEY CAN. I said 'WE CANNOT', which is what you originally stated. Only Blizzard can undo what they said about Alliance High Elves. And on every single occasion they have talked about Alliance High Elves, they have made sure to mention their incredibly low population, far below what other supposedly dying races have. And if they ever do that, congratulations, the population argument will be rendered moot due to a gigantic retcon. But we can do nothing about that. All we have at this moment in time are their statements saying there are too few High Elves. Something they have never wavered from, either in game or in public interviews.

It's not irrelevant, no matter how hard you wish it to be. The high elf community is asking for high elves, not blood elves. And yet, with your constantly 'blood elves are high elves', you continue to imply that all high elves as being blood elves. They're not. There is a distinction between the two, that makes them want high elves.

Yes, it is irrelevant. As a Blood Elf IS a High Elf and confirmed by multiple sources to be so then what the High Elf community is asking for is a duplicate of an existing Horde race. The option to play a High Elf is therefore available for anyone who wishes to play one and the choice not to play a Blood Elf is also a choice not to play a High Elf.

But not all high elves are blood elves.

Yes and the fact you cannot play a Dragonmaw Orc doesn't mean you cannot be an Orc. That is why this is irrelevant.

One particular, important item of the "high elf fantasy" is that they're part of the Alliance. Another particular item is that they refused to cause harm to animals to sate their addiction. Those are not present in the "blood elf fantasy". The "blood elf fantasy" is the fantasy of a race that will do whatever it takes to survive and endure, including letting go of their ancient principles. The "high elf fantasy" is the fantasy of a race that would stick to their principles.

Why is their membership of the Alliance such an intrinsic part of the fantasy? I take severe issue with that assertion. They left the Alliance. There is entire third of the Frozen Throne campaign dedicated to how the Alliance betrayed them and they left as a result. That is not the High Elf fantasy. The High Elf fantasy is to be a 'Blonde, pale-skinned, majestic elf', i.e. the Tolkien standard trope that has been used numerous times in fantasy fiction. It seems every high fantasy setting seemingly has this option and in this setting, that is what a Blood Elf is and if you want to play that, the Horde is waiting for you. Faction choice comes with race choice in this setting.
And before you place the High Elf remnant on too high a pedestal, remember they betrayed their families, their friends and their peoples for a foreign power. There is little nobility in treason. To say traitors have a greater claim to the identity of being a High Elf because of who they are allied way is to confer that right upon other peoples within the game. Only the High Elves have a right to decide who they are and what they are called, not Humans. And they have decided to call themselves Blood Elves, a part of the Horde.

The whole reason void elves are all purple is because of the void corruption ritual that Alleria stopped when she saved Umbric and his research team. Why is it so alien to you to consider that the more refined, safer procedure the void elf magisters research would allow some elves to retain their natural skin color? Especially since we know it is possible thanks to the existence of Alleria?

We do not know that due to the existence of Alleria. Alleria is a Void Elf who came by her powers a completely different way that involved eating a fallen Naaru. Now any thalssian elf who eats the heart of a fallen naaru, they might be able to replicate what Alleria has accomplished but fallen Naaru seem to be very rare and I am sure the Naaru would prefer us to try and save those who fallen rather than feed them to shadow hungry thalassian elves who are concerned about going a darker shade of purple. Alleria is unique, she is a hero character, the same way Anduin is a sword wielding Warrior Priest. She is not bound by normal rules. And as she is unique, she is not a point of reference.

The procedure used now to convert other Elves into Void Elves is by definition more refined and safer, as the people performing it would be taking greater care of those volunteering for the transformation than the Nether Prince did with the original batch. Yet what evidence is there that the procedure would result in a physically different outcome? Every Void Elf has the same set of skin tones and the tendency to sprout tentacles. In fact, what is the basis for the idea that they maintain their natural skin tones? Is it something based in lore? No, it is not. It is based on a wish to have a Void Elf that looks like a High Elf. Is it possible Blizzard could do this? Yes it is. Do I believe it likely? Nope, because I stated in my previous response the Void Elf look is deliberate. They have the skin tones they do because it evokes the void and the shadow and draws a contrast with the standard high elf embodied by the Blood Elf, a race now bathed in light. It is a deliberate aesthetic choice for Void Elves to look like they do. So while it is possible Blizzard might do something with Void Elves, I pretty much guarantee they really don't want to as the Void Elf aesthetic is a part of the package

]It's not. Good try though. No, not really.

It is irrelevant because the only points of differentiation I see cited are a.) their eye colour, which could be a Blood Elf option once eye colour customization is extended and is an incredibly small detail to be fixated on b.) their supposedly nobler attitude, which is a strange adjective to ascribe to traitors and really hard to put onto a character creator (how would a noble elf looks different from a sorrowful elf for example) and c.) Their political allegiance to the Alliance, which is irrelevant given that the vast majority of the race they are a part of is loyal to the Horde.

So of those three, one is miniscule, one is entirely subjective and impossible to convey visually and one is irrelevant. Of course it is the third difference that is the key issue, and has always been the key issue. Had Blood Elves joined the Alliance in TBC, and the storyline could have been easily written to work out that way, do you imagine yourself arguing for real blue eyed High Elves at this point or is it possible you'd have accepted the narrative that Blood Elves are High Elves, they just renamed themselves and got some green eyes. I somehow doubt the fact they don't have blue eyes would be quite as vexing under those circumstances as it currently is.

It is the faction the Blood Elves are on which is the true issue here and always has been. The issue has never been with Blood Elves, the spin on High Elves embraced in the warcraft franchise. It is the company they keep as a part of the Horde.

[Syegfryed]

Hello?

Blood elves are High elves by race.

i don't give a flying faks about what they call themselves, they are the same race, its all that matters as long blizzard add races

He isn't.

he is and i show why

Not, because:

you also try to say something and said nothing

Those two examples are still two pairs of different groups, call it whatever you like.

but one are, beside being a different group, a different species/races and the other are just different groups

It's called an -Allied- race for a reason, they aren't literal Sub-races.

they are more than sub-race they are another race altogether, another race of dwarf, another race of tauren, etc.

Btw damn Kul'tirans.

another race of human

All humans belong to the same race: (species) Humans. Word of God confirmed this.

not the kul'tirans, the ones that became playable, they are not the same race of human

Warcraft Humans do not have ethnicities because they do not separate themselves by physical characteristics. For example:
Taelia Fordragon is from Lordaeron.
Flynn Fairwind is from Kul Tiras.
Danath Trollbane is from Arathor.
Genn Greymane is from Guilneas.

Again you are forcing a comparison, those "groups" of humans fall in the same bag of orcs clans, they are the same with different names

kul'tirans show to have drust ancestry or at least hundread years of isolation and different conditions the normal process of specialization, unlike elves who had less than a decade with the same conditions.

This is also the second major argument; People of the same race must be uniform in appearance. Again, the Humans prove that members of the same race can look different than each other, without the excuse of magical transformation or drinking irradiated water.

except the kul'tirans do have changes, unlike elves, that is supported by lore, unlike elves, they don't simple chose to be different

no matter how how a stormwind human try he will never get a shape or the kul'tirans racials

This is where arguments turn into 10 page long circular arguments because there's no agreement about clans, tribes, and fractions. Elves are the polar opposite of Humans.

they are not btw, you again, forcing a wrong comparison

They separate themselves by everything, including physical appearance.

who? cause every human despise some individuals in kul'tirans are equal

The irony is that players insist that all elves are the same,

because they are? say they are not is like saying a human in the old town and a human in the mage quarter are a different race of human becaused they are separated by district in a small spawn of time

In conclusion, if you believe that we cant have two playable versions of the same race, or that everyone of that race must look the exact same, then Humans prove you wrong.

except humans of kul'tirans do have background and lore reasons to look different, not just "they rename themselves", while elves don't, so again, comparing the 2 is wrong, just because A equal B don't mean A equal C

And if you agree that multiple playable versions of the same race work because they are separated by clans or nationalities, then High Elves will work.

they don't work, is dumb

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XD This has to be a joke. Both of them -are- the same species

i already show you that they are not

a change in skin color due to fel corruption do not change their species, and even taking into consideration that we don't know jack shit about WoW DNA of races and if fel corruption modifies their DNA we can't 100% assure they even are a different race,

Blizzard already said fel magic work like radiation and radiation alter the DNA if exposed in big quantities, exactly what orcs have passed

Even after the corruption fading away with the death of Manoroth green orcs still are born from green orcs, this is a genetic change.

If we don't know about DNA stuff, we only have morphological tools to differentiate species/races, and just by this we can without a problem say they are different

except if we specifically talk about Blackrock orcs, that without any kind of corruption already had visible differences.

because they can keep changing? that the green color, now natural to orcs, can change again by other kind of mutation or environment?

And don't even try to bring up their green children. Fel corruption is... well... a corruption, it does pass as a kind of disease. Can't even confirm it is due to them being a different race lol...

corruption stop and fade away with Manoroth's death

the corruption made then a different specie/race, pretty simple;

[DeicideUH]

Chris Metzen himself said it in 2005. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3uz...w&index=3&t=0s

Yes, Chris say "blood elves are our high elves", and then proceeds to say how blood elves evolved from high elves.
"Blood elves serve as our example of what happens to a group of people when they just won't stop playing with it [magic] or abusing its power."
"Illidan taught the blood elves - the now named blood elves - how to syphon demonic energies, how to syphon ambient arcane energies from air, and in doing so he damned the last vestiges of the high elven race to retain their magic addiction but feed it with really unwholesome energies."

There you have it, the moment the blood elves and high elves turned into two different things. He does not goes into it, but we know there's still high elves that didn't take that path, didn't rename themselves and remained in the Alliance, and thus are not covered in that speech. It's amazing that you refuse to see the obvious. High elves and blood elves are not the same thing.

High elves and blood elves are not the same thing. They share an origin, but their paths diverged ten years (in-lore time) ago.

Ion Hazzikostas repeated himself in 2018. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUik9-2ygS8

"Basicly, blood elves kind of are high elves. [they have] different eye color, different backstory, [in terms of] you know, their different relationship to magic, but that's it"
There you have it, Ion saying high elves have a different culture. Ion's entire comparison between blood elves and high elves is about appearance. "If you want to be fair skinned, tall, majestice elf". If that's the problem, transform them, damn it! But retain what makes them different, which is the backstory that he himself acknowledges.

Instead, Blizzard transformed blood elves into void elves. But we didn't ask for blood elves, we asked for high elves. And void elves fundamentaly contradict that very same "different backstory" and "relationship to magic" that makes high elves unique.

[Ielenia]

526 pages and all I read is:
mimimi, we need ̶b̶̶l̶̶o̶̶o̶̶d̶ high elves for alliance.
And it will never happen. Deal with it.

Would you like a list of "things that will never happen" that "happened"?

[Aldo Hawk]

omegasnip

Seriously, try to partake anything else than a tantrum monkey stance and then we talk.

Since you refuse to acknowledge straightforward examples and educated guesses there isn't anything serious to discuss with you.

Btw:

you also try to say something and said nothing

I did but you care more about attacking through fallacies that you didn't even noticed.

[Gurluas]

Yes, Chris say "blood elves are our high elves", and then proceeds to say how blood elves evolved from high elves.
"Blood elves serve as our example of what happens to a group of people when they just won't stop playing with it [magic] or abusing its power."
"Illidan taught the blood elves - the now named blood elves - how to syphon demonic energies, how to syphon ambient arcane energies from air, and in doing so he damned the last vestiges of the high elven race to retain their magic addiction but feed it with really unwholesome energies."

There you have it, the moment the blood elves and high elves turned into two different things. He does not goes into it, but we know there's still high elves that didn't take that path, didn't rename themselves and remained in the Alliance, and thus are not covered in that speech. It's amazing that you refuse to see the obvious. High elves and blood elves are not the same thing.

High elves and blood elves are not the same thing. They share an origin, but their paths diverged ten years (in-lore time) ago.


"Basicly, blood elves kind of are high elves. [they have] different eye color, different backstory, [in terms of] you know, their different relationship to magic, but that's it"
There you have it, Ion saying high elves have a different culture. Ion's entire comparison between blood elves and high elves is about appearance. "If you want to be fair skinned, tall, majestice elf". If that's the problem, transform them, damn it! But retain what makes them different, which is the backstory that he himself acknowledges.

Instead, Blizzard transformed blood elves into void elves. But we didn't ask for blood elves, we asked for high elves. And void elves fundamentaly contradict that very same "different backstory" and "relationship to magic" that makes high elves unique.

This. I think many High elvers would have been happy if instead of Void elves we got a High elf based race that remained true to the High elf backstory, lore and ideology instead of grabbing Blood elves, corrupting them more and plopping them in the Alliance. This thread is about changing High elves sufficiently to be in the Alliance while still retaining what makes them enticing to begin with.

My personal idea are Ice elves. The High elves end up in an arcane accident that changes them and partially crystallizes them. Turning them icy blue, with crystalline hair and such. Yet they remain the High elves they used to be and follow the same ideology, with the Silver Covenant and Vereesa being the main racial faction.

This incident could be caused by the Sunreavers as revenge, and thus you reignite the High elf vs Blood elf feud while making High elves distinct enough to be playable. Perhaps Vereesa loses one of her sons too, giving her a reason to take the fight to the Horde, yet the other son she kept prevents her from going the Jaina route.

[Syegfryed]

Seriously, try to partake anything else than a tantrum monkey stance and then we talk.

you mean try to accept the bullshit you talk? no talk

Since you refuse to acknowledge straightforward examples and educated guesses there isn't anything serious to discuss with you.

i mean you already refuse to acknowledge basic biology things and be educated when you are wrong about then, yes its rly not worth discussing with you.

I did but you care more about attacking through fallacies that you didn't even noticed.

you are just the one using fallacies like false equivalence pal

[delus]

This is incredible, seriously... how can someone like to hear himself so much and not wanting to be reasonable for once? it's not okay.

The real question I want to know is what will he do with his free time when they are added?

[DeicideUH]

This. I think many High elvers would have been happy if instead of Void elves we got a High elf based race that remained true to the High elf backstory, lore and ideology instead of grabbing Blood elves, corrupting them more and plopping them in the Alliance. This thread is about changing High elves sufficiently to be in the Alliance while still retaining what makes them enticing to begin with.

My personal idea are Ice elves. The High elves end up in an arcane accident that changes them and partially crystallizes them. Turning them icy blue, with crystalline hair and such. Yet they remain the High elves they used to be and follow the same ideology, with the Silver Covenant and Vereesa being the main racial faction.

This incident could be caused by the Sunreavers as revenge, and thus you reignite the High elf vs Blood elf feud while making High elves distinct enough to be playable. Perhaps Vereesa loses one of her sons too, giving her a reason to take the fight to the Horde, yet the other son she kept prevents her from going the Jaina route.

There's no shortage of ways. My favorite is to continue the Isle of Thunder story, with the Storm-stave of Antonidas being used to transform them into "storm elves". But you could even go into a simpler story by having them find a way to sever their connection with the Sunwell, which causes some physical backlash, and they cover themselves in runes to feed their addiction: runic elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

Yes, Chris say "blood elves are our high elves", and then proceeds to say how blood elves evolved from high elves.
"Blood elves serve as our example of what happens to a group of people when they just won't stop playing with it [magic] or abusing its power."
"Illidan taught the blood elves - the now named blood elves - how to syphon demonic energies, how to syphon ambient arcane energies from air, and in doing so he damned the last vestiges of the high elven race to retain their magic addiction but feed it with really unwholesome energies."

There you have it, the moment the blood elves and high elves turned into two different things. He does not goes into it, but we know there's still high elves that didn't take that path, didn't rename themselves and remained in the Alliance, and thus are not covered in that speech. It's amazing that you refuse to see the obvious. High elves and blood elves are not the same thing.

High elves and blood elves are not the same thing. They share an origin, but their paths diverged ten years (in-lore time) ago.


"Basicly, blood elves kind of are high elves. [they have] different eye color, different backstory, [in terms of] you know, their different relationship to magic, but that's it"
There you have it, Ion saying high elves have a different culture. Ion's entire comparison between blood elves and high elves is about appearance. "If you want to be fair skinned, tall, majestice elf". If that's the problem, transform them, damn it! But retain what makes them different, which is the backstory that he himself acknowledges.

Instead, Blizzard transformed blood elves into void elves. But we didn't ask for blood elves, we asked for high elves. And void elves fundamentaly contradict that very same "different backstory" and "relationship to magic" that makes high elves unique.

'Blood elves are out High elves' Is a remark comparing Blood elves to the classic definition of a High elf, only Obelisk is twisting it to mean anything like 'Blood elves are the High elves of world of warcraft/our franchise', which is not what Chris meant there, as stated mere seconds before, saying: 'So we have always been excited to re look at the High elves and attempt to do something with them that to our knowledge has not been done in pop fantasy up to this point. Yeah, there's sort of cool worlds out there right?'

Also let's take into account that this is still development time for TbC. Chris Metzen also said that Illidan thought them how to siphon 'ambient arcane energies', which is something we know is not how it finally went.

[Varx]

I got to know, what is the big appeal to the elves specifically from warcraft 2 since its been stated multiple times that's it's not about the model (which I believe is completely BS) and has caused the rejection of velves, belves, neutral elves, and every other idea that doesn't involve an AR for "pure alliance" high elves.

I mean you could argue the whole wooland theme is easily achieved with nelves.

What is it so special about them that you guys want nothing else.

I mean imagine if someone wanted to play a pure Gilnean or normal kul tiran human and outright refuse to play a SW human because "my immersion".

I get the passion, just not the practicality.