So many spec's left out of Mythic plus

[Kaver]

The tool enables retards however.

You mean the tool lets us avoid retards.

[Reyuna]

You mean the tool lets us avoid retards.

Give us a link to your raider.io profile.

[quite an expert in wow]

Give us a link to your raider.io profile.

give yours too

[RobertMugabe]

I have been playing a lot of classes and specs. I really enjoy running keys only a 17-19 plus player around the 1.8k skill but I really enjoy it. The problem I am seeing is there are so many classes that don't even come close to Rogues, Demonhunters, Windwalkers a Protection Warriors. I am really speaking about Arcane, Fire, Sub rogues. The fury and arms warriors and survival hunters of the world.

I just wish they would stop nerfing classes that are fun and maybe help the classes that are underachieving. Honestly if mythic plus is going to be as popular as it seems going forward every class and spec should have options to help a group achieve whether through traits or talents to compete.

What you all think, I am suggesting fix what's lacking and leave what is good as is just give options for every class and personal spec a chance.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks

Deal with it. There will always be specs that will be better in some areas than others and the most hardcore players will always pick the spec that is simply the best, even if it's just better for about 1% than some other spec.

I can't believe that after almost 15 years of WoW being out, there are still people around who don't understand. Honestly I doubt you play 17-19, because that was a dumb question.

[ZazuuPriest]

There is such a thing as getting reasonably close enough to where differences in potential don't matter nearly as much as differences in skill, though. I'd say 10% or better spread from best to worst is acceptable. 5% is ideal. WoW devs have been historically and colossally incompetent in this matter, though.

What it really comes down to is utility and some classes with good dps (fury) just have none and as such have no place in a M+. IF you want every class to have equal utility then every class would be the same which is something Im sure youd be on here crying about as well

- - - Updated - - -

The tool enables retards however.

Have you ever tried to run a +10 with a 200 io tank from Ragnaros

[Kaver]

Give us a link to your raider.io profile.

Here you go. You’re welcome.

[BeepBoo]

"every class would just have to be homogenized if you want true balance!"

That is such an enormous fallacy. Just because you don't have the imagination on how to get something to work doesn't mean it can't be done.

For instance, you could design dungeons in M+ to negate things like shroud (something like filling the add-clear bar means 100% of all trash up to a boss instead of being able to skip a ton). There are a ton of ways to solve the problems the few people have highlighted and literal infinite possibilities. Just because it hasn't been done, would be hard, or is unimaginable to you doesn't negate that fact.

Besides that, let's take a stab at the whole "not every class needs to be good at everything!" Right, then why is rogue top tier for m+, pvp, and raiding? They should be weak at something meaningful.

[Deja Thoris]

The tool enables retards however.

Plenty of tools enable retards. The internets enabled a fair few glancing at the posts in this thread.

[mjolnrik]

A +20 can be done with any spec. So, keep on practicing.

Not quite true. Yes you can complete a 20 with any spec. Yes you can use your own key to do so if the pugs arent completely shit. But no you cant get into 20 pug groups with any class. My example, I have actually hit a wall at 2.1k on my mistweaver monk. Note this used to be on the same tier as resto druid and certainly is much easier to keep people alive in most keys than a resto druid so youd think it would be a strong choice. Wrong, I can barely get into 17 pugs now let alone 18s or 19s which im actually looking for. Their reasoning -> we need a resto druid. Maybe for the br since dks arent meta anymore and balance druids arent even that popular anymore, but still its a wall that cant be pugged through.
Yes Ive tried to pug my own keys, problem is, people are constantly randomly leaving them mid key, even when they are going ontime. Its wierd but impossible to deal with.
Then theres the dps spots. 1 is almost guarenteed to be saved for a rogue. A dh is usually the second pick, and since the mdi, monks are popular. But when have you last invited a warrior dps to a group? I havent seen 1 since 1400 io.

So as im saying, yes its possible to get to 20s in a guild group. But screw pugging your way there unless you are a meta class.

[Ange]

You guys are acting like it's still WoD or Legion and the top classes are within 10% of the bottom.

The gap is like 30%.

Yes some classes will always be on top but the bottom are really bad right now.

LEGION had other issues. You either had immunitys (REAL COOLDOWNS) for specific bosses/weeks or you could not survive even at lower keys.

The balance is really bad even for ST damage, you see it on Simcraft (15%+ gap) and Logs (20-25%+ gap). And AoE/Cleave damage for dungeons is completly unbalanced - everyone with a rogue ALT does know how little is needed to outperform ilvl 20+ players from other classes WHILE allready having all the rogue toolkit.

A hard nerf to Protwarrior and Outlaw's contants high AoE would be a good start with a shroud tax for dungeons. It would enable much more comps to perform similar.

Shroud tax*: if you use shroud/invis you need more %. You still can skip unwanted packs but for a cost.

[Koor]

Not quite true. Yes you can complete a 20 with any spec. Yes you can use your own key to do so if the pugs arent completely shit. But no you cant get into 20 pug groups with any class. My example, I have actually hit a wall at 2.1k on my mistweaver monk. Note this used to be on the same tier as resto druid and certainly is much easier to keep people alive in most keys than a resto druid so youd think it would be a strong choice. Wrong, I can barely get into 17 pugs now let alone 18s or 19s which im actually looking for. Their reasoning -> we need a resto druid. Maybe for the br since dks arent meta anymore and balance druids arent even that popular anymore, but still its a wall that cant be pugged through.
Yes Ive tried to pug my own keys, problem is, people are constantly randomly leaving them mid key, even when they are going ontime. Its wierd but impossible to deal with.
Then theres the dps spots. 1 is almost guarenteed to be saved for a rogue. A dh is usually the second pick, and since the mdi, monks are popular. But when have you last invited a warrior dps to a group? I havent seen 1 since 1400 io.

So as im saying, yes its possible to get to 20s in a guild group. But screw pugging your way there unless you are a meta class.

Exactly. I pugged my way into almost 2.5k as resto shaman. I get declined to 9 out of 10 groups with "we need a resto druid". Even though I have engineering CR since "it's not as good". Situation was a bit better in season one when dk tanks were the meta and brought CR, but now protection warrior doesn't bring CR so resto druid is even more important.

When I do get into groups, I often outscore the leader by 400 points -- this is the "resto shaman tax" -- they must think "yeah he plays a shitty class but is a good player". But getting into groups with similar score as you is very hard.

Made a resto druid alt. Getting quick invites to groups even with 400 points *less* than the leader. Already 2.1k with much less effort than I put into my resto shaman.

Yes I can push my own key, but as a resto druid there is just so much chances to improve your score since you have both your key to push, and other keys available to join, which is almost completely blocked as a resto shaman.

Blizzard needs to get their act together and start balancing classes.

[ID811717]

Exactly. I pugged my way into almost 2.5k as resto shaman. I get declined to 9 out of 10 groups with "we need a resto druid". Even though I have engineering CR since "it's not as good". Situation was a bit better in season one when dk tanks were the meta and brought CR, but now protection warrior doesn't bring CR so resto druid is even more important.

When I do get into groups, I often outscore the leader by 400 points -- this is the "resto shaman tax" -- they must think "yeah he plays a shitty class but is a good player". But getting into groups with similar score as you is very hard.

Made a resto druid alt. Getting quick invites to groups even with 400 points *less* than the leader. Already 2.1k with much less effort than I put into my resto shaman.

Yes I can push my own key, but as a resto druid there is just so much chances to improve your score since you have both your key to push, and other keys available to join, which is almost completely blocked as a resto shaman.

Blizzard needs to get their act together and start balancing classes.

Aside from having a combat res, don't you find that resto druids have a much higher healing throughout?

I think you're at the point where it's ultimately pointless to stick with your main, and it's better to just start rerolling into whatever class is meta in each season.

[Th3Scourge]

Why should every spec excel at every part of the game?

all classes have at least one viable spec for all types of content

[Koor]

Aside from having a combat res, don't you find that resto druids have a much higher healing throughout?

I think you're at the point where it's ultimately pointless to stick with your main, and it's better to just start rerolling into whatever class is meta in each season.

What can I say, I like playing resto shaman. I still hope that blizzard will balance the classes properly.
It is silly that resto druids are the only healer having a battle res, and have higher average throughput as well. Someone at blizzard must really like them over other classes.

[Frolk]

Raider.io will kill the game, it alienates people and makes them feel worthless because they don't play one of the small handful of meta classes.

How else will people be weeding out the shitters from the good players? Take a gamble with randoms and have a 50/50 that u finish the key in time or wipe 12 times on the first boss?

Top tier meta class/specs are only for the TOP M+ runs, u CAN be a mage/hunter/lock/etc in 10/15s

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

How about this.
Not every spec or class should be viable..... Gasp.

They should be viable and competitive that's just a failing on blizzard end.

- - - Updated - - -

Raider.io will kill the game, it alienates people and makes them feel worthless because they don't play one of the small handful of meta classes.

Raider.io would just be replaced with something else it's unkillable.

- - - Updated - - -

Why should every spec excel at every part of the game?

all classes have at least one viable spec for all types of content

Because it increases replay-ability and helps reduce burn out... If I can pick between 30+ specs rather than 8 that's a lot more interesting. It's in blizzard best interest honestly.

[Otimus]

MMO's and MOBA's bring out the worst in games and people, mostly by inherent design. That's what all of this really boils down to. It's why both those genres kind of suck if you take them too seriously. MMO's worse so, though, especially WoW, because "taking it seriously" is pretty much all there is to the game. Otherwise it's a bunch of junk content. (Which, if you like, more power to you. I just wish the genre could evolve into something better.)

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Dungeons were never meant to be competitive content, they're predictable, repeatable hundreds of times, have really simple mechanics, the only way to make them relevant is to tune them to stupidly high numbers and artificially make dungeon trash have a lot of unforgiving mechanics (1 shot if not interrupted spells or channels, heal to full spells etc)

Blizzard wanted a pve esport and raiding is incredibly bad at it, so they forced dungeons into an esport, the result is to be expected, everyone takes the same cookie cutter comps that can do things the fastest, with skips, massive aoe damage and big cheese.

The result is a terribly boring competition where you only see mirror matches of teams that did the dungeons thousands of times, hundreds on way higher difficulties than what's they're proposed, do more or less the same pulls, then you wait for one to fuck up a mechanic and die or do a messy pull and pull behind.

Of course this is streamed so the community thinks this is the way to go, even for lower keys, instead of embracing that wow can be an actual mmo and have variety.
In the end they aren't really wrong, high mythic + keys are useless, they bring nothing to the table, they're bland, and the best way to deal with them is either not deal with them at all, either play what's broken to do broken content.

Mythic+ dungeons have more variety than raids and isn't mythic raiding a bunch of unforgiving mechanics. Your rant about dungeons can apply to raids as well.

[Th3Scourge]

Because it increases replay-ability and helps reduce burn out... If I can pick between 30+ specs rather than 8 that's a lot more interesting. It's in blizzard best interest honestly.

Hmm I don't so much mind the fact that Affliction is shit for M+ but a beast in Raids. Every spec and class having no weakness across content is more boring than what we have now.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Hmm I don't so much mind the fact that Affliction is shit for M+ but a beast in Raids. Every spec and class having no weakness across content is more boring than what we have now.

Every class can have a weakness and be viable... I never said making everyone similiar.