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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by luc54 View Post
    How can you call that rote learning? Yes you have to remember how to do simple one digit suabstraction sometimes subtracting one digit from number between 10 to 19. This simplifies things and doesn't require so many steps. Also when you are doing division you've got to do the former anyway. It makes no sense to teach there me one and then the old one when teaching division.
    Its mormo, if he supports something its because he realises the harm it will bring to the US.
    "It doesn't matter if you believe me or not but common sense doesn't really work here. You're mad, I'm mad. We're all MAD here."

  2. #42
    Mechagnome Donatello Trumpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    While I laugh at "too difficult", the "not been seen before in class by students" is concerning.
    I'd argue high school in germany is more difficult than college in the US.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    Depends on the math really... are they complaining about nonsensical math like the infamous common core questions example:



    I don't really know enough about their situation to comment.
    Wtf is that??? Hahahahahah thanks Obama!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    You add enough to get to the nearest 5, then to the nearest 10, then add 10s until you get close to 32, then add what's left to get to 32.
    This is what happened after they dropped the "say no to drugs" campaign.

    Any teacher stoned enough to write that on the chalkboard better have brought enough for the whole class.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Saucexorzski View Post
    So...they want the government to dumb down tests? Didn't work so great for the US fyi.
    No, they mostly want equally hard tests in all states, because they have to compete with their grades at a national level to get into university.
    Guns don't kill people! Toddlers kill people!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Senator Moore will be sitting in that seat and I hope it burns you to your core.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    Depends on the math really... are they complaining about nonsensical math like the infamous common core questions example:



    I don't really know enough about their situation to comment.
    I'd like to know who put up this piece of propaganda.

    The "old" fashioned way isn't even correct. That's not how you do subtraction.

    The second way seems more cumbersome. It might be more cumbersome. But its really nothing more than inverting a subtraction problem and turning it into an addition problem. Its just a different logical method for performing the same problem.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    I'd like to know who put up this piece of propaganda.

    The "old" fashioned way isn't even correct. That's not how you do subtraction.

    The second way seems more cumbersome. It might be more cumbersome. But its really nothing more than inverting a subtraction problem and turning it into an addition problem. Its just a different logical method for performing the same problem.
    What is the correct way to do subtraction?
    and the geek shall inherit the earth

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    While I laugh at "too difficult", the "not been seen before in class by students" is concerning. Still in math it is certainly possible that they were given a topic they had the tools to solve but would not realize; in our national finals e.g. we had a question that was easiest solved by calculating the intergral of the inverse of a function and had not been taught inverse functions for some reason (they were in the book but out of the syllabus for the year) but practically speaking many people did solve it still without using the inverse by simple subtraction.
    Generally if there’s not enough time to cover everything the teachers can select like 2 out of 5 subjects to fit the topics covered in class (for standardized tests) German high school exams are nothing like the SAT. ‘too difficult’ is ridiculous

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The second way seems more cumbersome. It might be more cumbersome. But its really nothing more than inverting a subtraction problem and turning it into an addition problem. Its just a different logical method for performing the same problem.
    It's more cumbersome just because it's small numbers that most adults can do without really thinking about. Rules for things like this tend to look kind of silly when dealing with trivial examples. Trying to subtract something like 5 digit numbers or larger in the old way is kind of a pain with all the borrowing and stuff, the new way is actually how I do it in my head even though I never learned it that way in school.
    Last edited by Nellise; 2019-05-07 at 04:40 PM.

  10. #50
    The second method is pretty standard for doing it mentally. It just looks weird writing it down.

    If something costs $13.73 and they pay with a $20 do you really cross out and carry all the 0s in your head to determine the change or do you inverse it into addition to calculate it quickly?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Nellise View Post
    It's more cumbersome just because it's small numbers that most adults can do without really thinking about. Rules for things like this tend to look kind of silly when dealing with trivial examples. Trying to subtract something like 5 digit numbers or larger in the old way is kind of a pain with all the borrowing and stuff, the new way is actually how I do it in my head even though I never learned it that way in school.
    The new way is even more pain in the arse for large numbers.These methods are counting using paper/handwriting and not method for calculating mentally. Plus my point stands about divison.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    The second method is pretty standard for doing it mentally. It just looks weird writing it down.

    If something costs $13.73 and they pay with a $20 do you really cross out and carry all the 0s in your head to determine the change or do you inverse it into addition to calculate it quickly?
    Yeah if it's for mental maths it's acceptable and easier way to remember stuff. Maybe someone is trying to twist this to gain political points over "liberals". Can someone confirm if they are using it to teach how to do mental maths or are they actually using it for paper calculation? If it's the first one it's ok, if it's for the latter it's just stupid.

  12. #52
    Isn't it irrelevant how difficult the exam is, since your results would be compared to those of the other students?

  13. #53
    As for the actual topic, maybe @Slant can help here. Do you release your exam questions in the internet? I would like see them.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilhen7 View Post
    Isn't it irrelevant how difficult the exam is, since your results would be compared to those of the other students?
    It would depend on if it's the raw score that matters or what percentile your score is in. If you need 70% correct to pass, it doesn't matter what anybody else does.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mGuArD View Post
    What is the correct way to do subtraction?
    Subtraction from a two-digit number is two step process. Its not complicated or hard and most will simply do it by memory.

    The image is still misleading because it doesn't show the intervening steps in the "old" way.

    In this particular case, you're not subtracting 12 from 32. You subtract singles column (2-2=0) and the the 10's column (3-1=2) to get the answer of 20.

    A slightly harder problem is 32-13. Try explicitly stating the intervening steps required to do it.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by luc54 View Post
    As for the actual topic, maybe @Slant can help here. Do you release your exam questions in the internet? I would like see them.
    I don't think they're published anywhere, although they're not classified in any manner. It's just that there's no market for them. Teachers have access to old exams to give their students preparation exams (dry runs, if you will), but other than that... I'm not aware of any place you could look them up.

    While I'm here, though, two things that crossed my minds. And yes, I know they're contradictory:

    1. Students will usually pick up any reason they can find to protest anything regarding school. It's just something they do when they feel treated unfairly, which is pretty much all the time. Source: Myself and every one of you, you know how you were...

    2. When Bavarian students joined this protest, it's a sign to me that something went wrong. Bavaria is notorious for having the hardest school system in Germany. When they start bitching, there may be something to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilhen7 View Post
    Isn't it irrelevant how difficult the exam is, since your results would be compared to those of the other students?
    Not in Germany. They have no problems failing an entire class if everyone fucks up. You're right or you're wrong. Your fellow students being wrong doesn't make your own result better or worse. Averaging a score based on the overall performance of the entire class is a stupid system and I hope no educational system on this planet does that. It would inevitably lead to the dumbification of humanity.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by luc54 View Post
    As for the actual topic, maybe @Slant can help here. Do you release your exam questions in the internet? I would like see them.
    Not sure if they changed it, but at least in the past you had buy them from a publisher in a compiled form which usually had the last couple years in them. That would mean it'd take some time until they are released and even then it wouldn't be exactly publicly.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Not in Germany. They have no problems failing an entire class if everyone fucks up. You're right or you're wrong. Your fellow students being wrong doesn't make your own result better or worse. Averaging a score based on the overall performance of the entire class is a stupid system and I hope no educational system on this planet does that. It would inevitably lead to the dumbification of humanity.
    Pretty much every professor in uni does that. While they can't completely turn the scales upside down, all of them will shift the grading scale to reflect a bell curve for statistics.

  19. #59
    The Lightbringer Molis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    Depends on the math really... are they complaining about nonsensical math like the infamous common core questions example:



    I don't really know enough about their situation to comment.
    This stupid shit happens at my 7 year olds school too.

    He answers every single question right on a 50 question math quiz.
    Gets a 75% for not showing his work. Fuck off teachers he knew every answer.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Has lost its way View Post
    Depends on the math really... are they complaining about nonsensical math like the infamous common core questions example:

    snip

    I don't really know enough about their situation to comment.
    I don't understand what that picture means.

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