Trump pardons a US Army soldier convicted of murdering an Iraqi Man

[s_bushido]

I really don't give a crap because the deceased wasn't an American citizen.

The only "right" non-Americans have when one of our soldiers puts a gun in their face is simple: do as you're told and answer all questions.

Well, just because you're a reprehensible human being, it doesn't mean the rest of us don't hold ourselves to a higher standard.

But hey, whenever people on these forums complain about "foreign invaders" committing crimes against citizens of nations they don't belong to, we can point to this response and tell them that those victims don't have rights according to you. So that's something, at least...

[Blur4stuff]

I can't count the number of times (even before 9/11) that I've heard far right people say something like, "We should turn the middle east into glass" or "We should bomb them all back to the stone ages".

They don't care about innocents being killed if they're muslim and/or brown.

[gondrin]

Who's "cheering" ? I said i just don't care about the guy because he isn't American.

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Canadians should care about whatever they want.

Just like Americans will.

And yet this soldier violated the military rules of engagement which is punishable by military tribunal. Which Trump just decided didn't matter.

[Powerogue]

Jesus. That would be murder even if the victim had done something wrong.

It is just a dog whistle to those rapid fools that believe murdering brown people shouldn't be a crime.

I'm pretty sure "dog whistle" implies some level of subtlety to where only those people would interpret it that way. It seems as boldfaced as you can get.

[Justank]

I mean if the victim would have killed the soldier instead the victim would have had a better self defense case.

This is what I don't understand about this. The victim may have been a piece of human scum that just killed US forces, but there wasn't enough evidence to support that so he was released. He was then kidnapped and stripped naked, even if he did fight back how in the world is it not a self defense case for the victim? Are we suggesting it's okay to murder anyone you don't like as long as you put them in a situation where they feel the need to attack you, so you can claim it was self defense?

[luckydevours]

But this can continue elsewhere so as to not derail this thread

I had to laugh! You start derailing a thread and if others jump on it you seriously ask them not to derail the thread?

WTF is wrong with this forum?! I almost accepted the fact that Russian trolls are allowed to roam freely and derail any thread they wan't, at least I can put them on my ignore list. But now even mods are trolling discussions they are supposed to moderate ...

[Thekri]

I disagree he was not within his rights to self defense just because he had him stripped and was naked. If he gets a hold of the handgun, the Lt. could be dead instead. Sounds like they did not dispute his self defense claim, but still found him guilty of unpremeditated murder. Does not sound right to me.

What kind of insane reasoning is that? If it was a legal military operation that seized him, sure. But this guy was off the reservation kidnapping and "Interrogating" people. That is like a rapist claiming self defense because he killed the victim after she hit him while he was assaulting her.

The Iraqi man was the one assaulted, because he was seized and held against his will, stripped and interrogated. If it was an actual legitimate military operation obviously that is different, but those don't involve hauling people into the middle of nowhere, torturing them and dumping their corpses. And they don't involve Soldiers acting on their own initiative. Having a chain of command that acts on defined objectives is the difference between combat and murder in the first place. Soldiers do not have a 007 license to kill whoever they want.

[Drutt]

The twisted logic of some people on this thread is jaw dropping.

Apparently if I get attacked by someone and defend myself again him and he kills me, the attack is engaging in self defence.

Incredible.

Still, I guess this means Ted Bundy was simply using self defence when he killed those girls who fought back against him. I'm sure he'll appreciate his posthumous pardon.

[Hilhen7]

This is true. But no less than yours does.

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I disagree he was not within his rights to self defense just because he had him stripped and was naked. If he gets a hold of the handgun, the Lt. could be dead instead. Sounds like they did not dispute his self defense claim, but still found him guilty of unpremeditated murder. Does not sound right to me.

So if a rapist kidnaps a women and holds her at gunpoint he can shoot her if she lunges at him right? Self defense.

Heck Trump may even pardon him!

[Edge-]

I disagree he was not within his rights to self defense just because he had him stripped and was naked. If he gets a hold of the handgun, the Lt. could be dead instead. Sounds like they did not dispute his self defense claim, but still found him guilty of unpremeditated murder. Does not sound right to me.

Take a step back: What were the events leading up to that moment? That kind of context is important. Was the soldier in any way responsible for creating the circumstances that led to this man trying to get ahold of his gun because the man feared for his life?

[Machismo]

I really don't give a crap because the deceased wasn't an American citizen.

The only "right" non-Americans have when one of our soldiers puts a gun in their face is simple: do as you're told and answer all questions.

People like you the reason that other people think killing Americans is a good idea.

Combine that with your hatred of Arabs/Muslims, and it's clear you simply want genocide.

[Easo]

Self defense does not apply if your the one who assaulted the person you claim to be defending yourself from. You cant kidnap a man drag im into the desert at gunpoint and then shoot him when he attempts to fight back, in that situation hes defending himself.

Yet so many do not get this. It really smells like people here are just trolling OR being obtuse for the sake of it.

I really don't give a crap because the deceased wasn't an American citizen.

The only "right" non-Americans have when one of our soldiers puts a gun in their face is simple: do as you're told and answer all questions.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Thekri]

What the fuck is wrong with you?

Hey, he has a consistent message. I mean it is absolutely horrifying, but he stays pretty true to his core message. His core tenant is that the only form of human life that is valuable is American citizens*.

*Offer not valid for Non-Christian, Non-White, or Non-Republican American Citizens.

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I would imagine there are soldiers who aren't too happy with the pardon. The military has standards. With power comes responsibility. This man allowed himself to cross a hard line and those with integrity would find it hard just to sign away their responsibility for such actions.

Sort of. It is a bit more nuanced then that.

So most people in this thread are misreading the situation, but they are doing it from two different angles. One side sees Soldiers killing people in a war, and sees nothing wrong with that. The other side sees cold blooded murder, and sees nothing defensible about it. The problem is that both are true, and neither truly stands apart from the other. It was cold blooded murder, but it arose from the frustrations of combat that Behenna could not control.

The fact that War turns good men into monsters is not new information. This has been known for longer then we have had written language to record it. But it is a deeply unpopular fact with the people whos profession it is to fight wars. The members of the military that understand this (Like myself, although I left the military last year) deeply oppose this pardon. However a majority don't wish to acknowledge this, and they would prefer that this ugly incident just disappears.

In all my time in the military I never once had anyone stand in front of us and talk about the frustrations of counter insurgency combat and what it does to your head. I forced myself to talk about it with my soldiers, but nobody ever did it for me, and my after first deployment I fully understood why people do things like this. It is born from a bizarre feeling of helplessness and power intersecting. You are by far the most powerful force in a region, any enemy that opposes you can be destroyed in seconds. But nobody admits to being your enemy. Everyone is your friend, everyone supports you, everyone is grateful you are there. But you still keep hitting bombs, and mortars keep coming every fucking night. When you go to talk to a farmer that owns the field the mortars came from, he says he slept through it all, he has no idea who could have done it.

You hit a point where you want to kill everybody not in an American uniform real quick. But that is their whole plan. Because incidents like what Behenna did is how we lose wars. Every time a soldier snaps we create 10,000 more enemies. We lose what local support we have, we lose support of Americans back home, and we lose support of our allies. This is why this is important, and this why a pardon is so fucking devastating. I almost don't even blame Behenna, I know why he did it, but it is still murder, and you can't ever acknowledge it is ok.

[sarahtasher]

Few things amaze me more than American edgelords who keep droning ''bad guys'' and ''good guys'' while casually advocating for mass murders of random non white people. It's bad when they do it, it's cool when the Americans do it.

[Twdft]

I really don't give a crap because the deceased wasn't an American citizen.

The only "right" non-Americans have when one of our soldiers puts a gun in their face is simple: do as you're told and answer all questions.

I thought Americans are proud of their constitution...

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

[Bdatik]

I really don't give a crap because the deceased wasn't an American citizen.

The only "right" non-Americans have when one of our soldiers puts a gun in their face is simple: do as you're told and answer all questions.

Quoting this because this is now the state of these forums. This is now, apparently, acceptable behavior.

I'd tag a mod, but I'd be more likely to be infracted.

[ABEEnr2]

I really don't give a crap because the deceased wasn't an American citizen.

The only "right" non-Americans have when one of our soldiers puts a gun in their face is simple: do as you're told and answer all questions.

You go into a country on a false evidence then what happens? oh yeah you kill the people of the country after decade when you are supposed to leave. Then you say it ok because he is not a "American citizen"? You REALLY need help jesus... You people who think like that really should rethink your life.

[Santti]

I've said before I disagree fundamentally with the very concept of a war crime.

For me, losing is the only crime on the field of battle.

Ban me? For what exactly? Disagreeing with the far-Left?

This is sig worthy. It's just that ludicrous.

And yeah, being against war crimes is the position held by "far-left", whatever the fuck that even means in US perspective.

[ParanoiD84]

I would shake his hand if he wasted a al qaida or isis member.

[Yetanothernewbie]

I would shake his hand if he wasted a al qaida or isis member.

Yeah too bad about that pesky thing called proof and evidence.