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  1. #41
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    The people with Type 1 diabetes should be mad at all of the nasty fuckers using all the insulin because they don't want to stop putting sugar water and pizza down their throats. Healthcare wouldn't be so expensive if every American wasn't gorging themselves to death. Sure, drug prices are high. However, the US funds the majority of medical innovations in the world.

    https://www.brookings.edu/research/t...al-innovation/

    "At the end of the day, however, evidence conclusively demonstrates that higher expected revenues leads to more drug discovery, with the most recent numbers suggesting that on average every $2.5 billion of additional revenue leads to a new drug approval."

    "Pressure is building in the United States for the federal government to take action to regulate drug prices. Proponents contend that consumers will benefit from lower prices, while critics contend that reducing future revenues will slow innovation. The debate thus centers on the trade-off between benefiting the current generation (with lower prices) and benefiting future generations (with greater pharmaceutical innovation and access to new drugs), as well as the extent to which alternative policy approaches can balance this trade-off. However, if other wealthy countries shouldered more of the burden for medical innovation, both American and European patients would benefit."

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    If you don't have a Canadian citizenship and don't carry a medical card, you shouldn't even be seen by a doctor or hospital unless it's an emergency and you are going to die. Fuck these leeches
    No worries, if you dont have the "sun card" you are going to pay normal fees. They are not leeches at all. The normal fees are just way cheaper than fees for consulting a doctor in the US (because in the US politicians havent done anything to prevent business from making money out of people's health).
    The drugs are also way cheaper because in Canada drug companies can't decide to put a price on a drug randomly that people need.
    To resume, they are paying the normal prices, they are helping the economy, it is also helping them. Just a waste of time to cross the border, it would be nice if it could be shipped to spare their time. They are sick poor people.

  3. #43
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    So, why not just buy it online then? :-/ Unless it's not OTC, and you still need to actually buy it at a pharmacy?
    I can’t say I know how buying it online would work Though it could be pharmacy only as when I bought it I got it from one.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Varithimas View Post
    The people with Type 1 diabetes should be mad at all of the nasty fuckers using all the insulin because they don't want to stop putting sugar water and pizza down their throats. Healthcare wouldn't be so expensive if every American wasn't gorging themselves to death. Sure, drug prices are high. However, the US funds the majority of medical innovations in the world.

    https://www.brookings.edu/research/t...al-innovation/

    "At the end of the day, however, evidence conclusively demonstrates that higher expected revenues leads to more drug discovery, with the most recent numbers suggesting that on average every $2.5 billion of additional revenue leads to a new drug approval."

    "Pressure is building in the United States for the federal government to take action to regulate drug prices. Proponents contend that consumers will benefit from lower prices, while critics contend that reducing future revenues will slow innovation. The debate thus centers on the trade-off between benefiting the current generation (with lower prices) and benefiting future generations (with greater pharmaceutical innovation and access to new drugs), as well as the extent to which alternative policy approaches can balance this trade-off. However, if other wealthy countries shouldered more of the burden for medical innovation, both American and European patients would benefit."
    Man what you said is wrong. EU, CAN, AUS, China, Russia and + are good at discovering new drugs. When it is invented in one of these countries, they make it affordable to the people so that sick people can benefit from it (and they have healthcare). In the US, when they discover a new drug, they want to patent it so that no one else can produce it and then they sell it at a price that most people can't afford. And they can't buy it form a competitor because it is forbidden so you either put all your money in it or die. If you think this is a better system than abroad I'm so sorry for you man. The only reason why it is that way is because the pharmaceutical company wants to make money out of your life.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by lummiuster View Post
    Man what you said is wrong. EU, CAN, AUS, China, Russia and + are good at discovering new drugs. When it is invented in one of these countries, they make it affordable to the people so that sick people can benefit from it (and they have healthcare). In the US, when they discover a new drug, they want to patent it so that no one else can produce it and then they sell it at a price that most people can't afford. And they can't buy it form a competitor because it is forbidden so you either put all your money in it or die. If you think this is a better system than abroad I'm so sorry for you man. The only reason why it is that way is because the pharmaceutical company wants to make money out of your life.
    Thanks for replying with a counter source to my proposed reasons for higher prices which were:

    1. Supply and demand due to unhealthy behaviors.
    2. The cost of developing new medical innovations. (which I cited)

    The idea that countries like China care about their people is laughable. I mean its not like they work their children to death while they allow them to breathe in hazardous chemicals.
    Last edited by Varithimas; 2019-05-08 at 03:08 PM. Reason: additional information/grammar

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    If you don't have a Canadian citizenship and don't carry a medical card, you shouldn't even be seen by a doctor or hospital unless it's an emergency and you are going to die. Fuck these leeches
    If they are Diabetic and dont have insulin pretty sure that would fit the terms of are going to die

    "Type 1 diabetes is a disease in which the body can no longer produce insulin. ... To control their blood glucose levels, people with type 1 diabetes take insulin injections. Before the discovery of insulin, type 1 diabetes was a death sentence "
    "How you build your character is not a feature of a MMORPG, it is the feature. Everything else is secondary even the gameplay itself is secondary to building your character, its the kind of stuff you think about when you are at work or school and couldnt wait to go home to play WoW or Diablo 2. We have all done it." ~Into, 2016

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by XangXu View Post
    Every American I have interacted with seems to be the same. They may act friendly. They may have voted for Obama. But it’s the kind of thing where “being nice” shouldn’t be used to see who they really are. I’ve met nice Americans until they make some horrible fucking racist joke and think nothing of it. Until they get their shit together, they are the enemy in my eyes. Not just to my country, but to my species.
    This is satire, right?

  8. #48
    Why cant we go back to hitlers day, line them up and shoot them bru? Americans are dangerous, their prisons are filled. They have school shooting in their elementary school. They profess having Armed security thug in elementary school as a good thing. Im not sure i want my children to be in such a danger as to have caravant of American cross this border. Send the horse patrol and mow them down its a national security emergency.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    It's Ok they will be stuck in a waiting room for a week before they maybe see a doctor, or get told to come back in 6 months for their treatments.
    this happens in America.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Varithimas View Post
    Thanks for replying with a counter source to my proposed reasons for higher prices which were:

    1. Supply and demand due to unhealthy behaviors.
    2. The cost of developing new medical innovations. (which I cited)

    The idea that countries like China care about their people is laughable. I mean its not like they work their children to death while they allow them to breathe in hazardous chemicals.
    Quite sure most countries have healthcare because it helps their economy to keep their people alive.. For real when it comes to caring for their people, USA and China are on the same level. Lobbies are much more important than people in USA I'm sure you saw it.
    Your source is trash man. Not in a mean way, but it does not solve a problem that the whole world did. So you have a US and an Australian firm working on a drug you need. If the US firm discovers it first, it will be patented and sold to you at a price you cant afford so you'll die or sell all your shits. If the Australian firm patents it first then you'll have the drug for cheaper and live your normal life.
    Here's a summary of the problem: The US pharmaceutical companies are literally taking the US population as hostage and pressuring the government not to change the rules.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by alturic View Post
    Where to start, and please don't take any of this as an attack, honest discussion...

    Are you a capitalist, or socialist?
    Is it the product (medication) that you find a problem a company making 3,942% profit margins?
    Is it the almost guaranteed business that you find a problem with a company making 3,942% margins?
    That's a trick question. Most Americans are mixed on this issue. As an economy capitalism is fine, but many believe in government oversight preventing percieved labor abuses and stagnating wages.

    As a healthcare issue I definitely lean towards socialized medicine.


    Number 4, see 3, but I don't understand how you patent a formula to make "insulin", if that makes sense? "Humalog, Lantus and other previous generation insulins are now off patent" - is these are off patent, couldn't someone make an identical version? Not trying to pretend I understand chemistry/pharma, but yea.
    Lantus patent originally was applied for in 1994 by Sanofi, it expired in 2015, but was extended until 2028 at least. So while Europe, Japan and elsewhere have generic knockoffs, the US lacks such from someone outside the main 3 thus far.

    Norvo Nordisk and Eli Lilly are also guilty of re-patenting due to improvements. Which allows them to keep the prices high without competition. Eli Lilly currently has the only US "generic" of Lantus, Basaglar, which while on average 15% cheaper than Lantus is no where near the costs (even accounting for inflation) of 20 years ago. At one time Insulin was affordable here and a push for profits is what's caused it to rise. Until the past couple of decades people had no reason to even worry about generics on it, because it was already affordable. There was no market for making something affordable even cheaper. Now with the constant "improvements" and patents rewarded it has effectively become a roadblock of the past couple of decades.

    Two companies Mylan and Biocon had a patent dispute petition against Sanofi (Like Eli Lilly did previously so they could make their generic) and the US patent office sided with them (Thanks to them trying to assist in combating rising prices. Their products, due to an issued 30 month stay, thanks to patent infringement litigation, can start being produced in 2020 at the earliest. The real question remains, though. With a long and arduous FDA process and having to dispute patents, and even more litigation, do we really believe Mylan or Biocon fought the long fight just to undercut Sanofi enough to make it affordable to all? I'm betting not, but hopefully down the road their win allows those who would, to do so more easily.

    https://endpts.com/mylan-claims-win-...far-from-over/

    It's a far cry from when Frederick Banting and his team at the University of Toronto discovered insulin and sold the patent to the university for $1 in hopes that no one would profit off the medication and that it would become readily available to those who need it.

    Number 5, see my comment about getting rid of politicians voting on bills, and instead just introducing them and putting them through a large entropy random number generator. It sounds weird but fundamentally it's really no different than how politicians behave. Hell, perhaps do once a year elections that... *gasp* THE PEOPLE vote on things. Would be very cumbersome but at least both of those stop the politician profiteering.
    I absolutely agree. When it comes down to voting on specific issues that impact everyone, indirect-democracy and using delegates (who can barely get over 50% of the votes in the first place, in many cases, to ultimately decide what's best for everyone is just asinine. Lobbyists are a huge problem and the people they donate to just have to have the right party name to win their state in a lot of cases.
    Last edited by -Nurot; 2019-05-08 at 03:38 PM.

  12. #52
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    this gives me a dumb idea!

    step one: Acquire canadian citizenship.
    step two: Purchase cheap insulin in canada.
    step three: resell cheap insulin at small markup in america, still likely far below big pharma prices.
    step four: Big pharma tries to take me out, but by the laws of 80's movies I'm bound to win somehow.
    step five: stop all that since I can now afford college.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  13. #53
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Hmmm this makes me wonder if I'm eligible to use Canada's healthcare system with my work visa.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    You'll fail at this step.

    1. You won't be able to bring goods in US.
    2. If you will, you'll be selling without license, so government will put you in prison.
    3. If somehow you manage to avoid #1 and #2, you are doing it on tiny scale that nobody noticed, so it has no actual effect.
    If a dude in a hoodie can sell meth to junkies, it shouldn't be that hard to sell insulin.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  15. #55
    Brewmaster -Nurot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    this gives me a dumb idea!

    step one: Acquire canadian citizenship.
    step two: Purchase cheap insulin in canada.
    step three: resell cheap insulin at small markup in america, still likely far below big pharma prices.
    step four: Big pharma tries to take me out, but by the laws of 80's movies I'm bound to win somehow.
    step five: stop all that since I can now afford college.
    I know you're joking, but the police not Big Pharma is who you would have to worry about. Any insulin you'd be going to Canada for, although no prescription is required in Canada, for those brands it is here in the US.

    Re-selling prescription medicine is illegal.

    On the off chance it's a knockoff and not one existing here already, that means it's not FDA approved and so it'd also be illegal to sell.

    Might as well become an actual drug dealer with the trouble you'd go through. It'd save you the trip to Canada.

    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    1. You won't be able to bring goods in US.
    You can bring back a 3 month supply of insulin legally. Not that, he'd make any money off that, especially if he was going to sell it cheap.
    Last edited by -Nurot; 2019-05-08 at 03:47 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Nurot View Post
    I know you're joking, but the police not Big Pharma is who you would have to worry about. Any insulin you'd be going to Canada for, although no prescription is required in Canada, for those brands it is here in the US.

    Re-selling prescription medicine is illegal.

    On the off chance it's a knockoff and not one existing here already, that means it's not FDA approved and so it'd also be illegal to sell.

    Might as well become an actual drug dealer with the trouble you'd go through. It'd save you the trip to Canada.
    But I like snow.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    https://www.newsweek.com/caravan-ame...l-care-1417582

    The Canadians must turn back this tide of economic migrants before they bring their problems to Canada!

    Jokes aside, here in Australia insulin is heavily subsidised and costs something like $4/mL. Needles, strips etc are free. It's almost unthinkable in most developed nations outside the US that a diabetic would be unable to afford their medication.
    Anyone that needs insulin, albuterol or epipens is just absolutely fucked in the US in terms of overall cost unless they have mind-blowing insurance. And even then...

    I work for a "Welness" health company, and my insurance is shit (fuck HSAs man...). I need Vyvanse and Librium just to function most days, and my insurance won't cover them because they aren't considered "essential" (essential drugs are considered to be things like heart medication or anti-cholesterol medication, which is a whole other cycle of bullshit I won't get into). I make a decent salary, but trying to afford both of those on a routine. Librium I can get pretty cheaply via GoodRX. But Vyvnanse? Good fuckin luck. Even with GoodRX it runs me around $500-600 for a month.

    Thank the gods weed is legal in my state.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by BoltBlaster View Post
    Regulations and testing exists in other countries as well. Standards are as high as in US. So actual price of bringing drug to market is the same.

    In US they are just looking for any excuse to inflate prices on every step to make more profit. Free market doesn't work when there is no actual competition on essential services and people have no choice of supplier. It requires regulation.
    So in these other countries, the pricing is "regulated"? I don't strictly mean regulated as in law, could be due to socialied medical, etc, but I couldn't think of a better word. The real question is why are the prices dramatically lower in other countries? So then it comes to the real definition of regulated, if they tried raising the prices to the US equivalent, they legally can't or?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by XangXu View Post
    Every American I have interacted with seems to be the same. They may act friendly. They may have voted for Obama. But it’s the kind of thing where “being nice” shouldn’t be used to see who they really are. I’ve met nice Americans until they make some horrible fucking racist joke and think nothing of it. Until they get their shit together, they are the enemy in my eyes. Not just to my country, but to my species.
    "I only approve of discrimination if it's done by me."

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Man, I wish we were allowed to reply to comments with gifs.



    Not necessarily. A lot of Americans are scared of visiting Mexico and have also heard/read a lot of horror stories on medical procedures coming out of there.
    The quality of care in Mexico is just as good. A lot of San Diegans regularly go to Tijuana for standard medical and dental care and prescriptions. If you have proof of permanent residency (you don't have to be a citizen) you are covered under IMSS. All covered, no deductible and no copay. I know quite a few US citizens that work in San Diego and live in Tijuana. For the same price for a one-bedroom apartment in San Diego, they can rent a luxury high rise condo in Tijuana.

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