M+ looting system busted?

[cparle87]

It is different. How can you possibly conflate Azerite gear with interesting gear from the past like tier sets and legendarys? One produces variety in gameplay throughout an expansion and one doesn’t.

Also, titles and mounts aren’t special anymore because server communities are dead.

I didn't say anything about tier or legendaries, please don't put words in my mouth. If my spec has haste/mastery as my two best stats I farm until I get the best ilvl with those that I can. Then I do it again when the level cap is raised.

Also, that's just your opinion. You can't say "there's no point to mythic raiding at all" have someone say "but you get these things you can't get anywhere else" and then go "those things don't count because I say so."

[styil]

How is this any different then how loot progression has been since the beginning? Back in vanilla you farmed up the dungeon set knowing that the raid set would replace it. yes they had different names but it was the exact same principle.

Because they are fundamentally different items. Different item look, rarity, stats, bonuses, etc. It provided a sense of progression and the feeling that you've come somewhere. Now it's farming literally the same item every season until the end of expansion, and worse yet, Blizzard keeps buffing the hp of dungeons every patch so the relative strength of the items remains the same.

How many times can Blizzard trick the player base into farming the same items every patch?

[Kaver]

How is this different from how gearing has been from the beginning of the game? You find what your best stats/traits are, farm the best gear you can that have them, then do it again when the item level cap is raised.

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More recently, I remember people doing mythic Ursoc runs until the end of Nighthold to get some trinkets off of him that were very good.

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Except that the gear is slightly weaker than mythic raiding, and there's the perks that only they get like CE achieves, titles, and mounts. If that and the challenge isn't for you, then mythic raiding isn't for you. That's not a bad thing.

It is just a little bit boring to use and farm for the same trinkets the whole expansion. Blizzard could add new gear to the dungeons with each m+ season.

You can very easily get 415+ gear by running heroic raids and +10 keys. In my opinion, that is a broken reward system.

[lDanny]

As someone that mainly does M+ I can tell you that loot isn't my motivation behind running dungeons. I like the challenge of pushing keys as high as I can and loot upgrades are just a bonus once you are easily doing over +10s. If loot is your only reason for running M+ then maybe the system isn't designed for you outside of the weekly chest as you can find suitable alternatives in terms of trinkets/azerite from the raid unless you are aiming for rank 1 logs or in a top world guild.

My issue with the M+ system is that some weeks just aren't fun affixes and makes me not want to run more than a couple dungeons per week.

[cparle87]

It is just a little bit boring to use and farm for the same trinkets the whole expansion. Blizzard could add new gear to the dungeons with each m+ season.

You can very easily get 415+ gear by running heroic raids and +10 keys. In my opinion, that is a broken reward system.

Do you remember Wrath? The ilvl200, that was Naxx10 ilvl btw, Darkmoon Greatness Card was BiS all the way until you had Heroic ICC-25 trinkets. Or things like the cooldown reducing and secondary stat boosting trinkets from SoO; or Soul Capacitor, which all had to be broken to stop working once you levelled up because they were so good you'd never replace them unless something equally OP.

You consider it a broken system that you can get good gear from content that is either the hardest or second hardest of its type?

[Moonsorrow]

It is different. How can you possibly conflate Azerite gear with interesting gear from the past like tier sets and legendarys? One produces variety in gameplay throughout an expansion and one doesn’t.

Also, titles and mounts aren’t special anymore because server communities are dead.

How can anyone honestly say that tier set were interessting gear. Most of the time the effects were glorified trinket proccs or other forgetable effects. The rest of the time they were either so overpowered that they had to nerf them after the tier or so crap that you would just skip them.

Yes some tier set bonuses became talents or azerite traits but the huge mass of bonuses were not interesting at all.
The set just blocked 4 or more slots of gear where you were stuck with any suboptimal stat combo Blizzard had rolled for your class

[Mightytasty]

I didn't say anything about tier or legendaries, please don't put words in my mouth. If my spec has haste/mastery as my two best stats I farm until I get the best ilvl with those that I can. Then I do it again when the level cap is raised.

Also, that's just your opinion. You can't say "there's no point to mythic raiding at all" have someone say "but you get these things you can't get anywhere else" and then go "those things don't count because I say so."

Yes, you did. You said “how is this different from gear since the beginning of the game”. I’m pretty sure that includes tier and legendaries, which are notably absent from this expansion.

By the way, anyone can obtain mythic raiding mounts (and maybe titles? But who cares) from soloing the raid an expansion later. If they were actually exclusive to mythic raiders I would consider them a worthwhile incentive.

[klaps_05]

Love the system - means you can farm as many rings as you want to balance out gaps when you equip the highest pieces with your main stat and amazing for gearing up alts quickly.

Only thing I would change is bring back the 3 chests spawning (split the rewards between them) as I miss having 3 chests to open and add Residuum as drops, can even make it 1 residuum per keystone level and for example add a weekly quest that requires you to do each dungeon once on +15, then you get 1000 residuum at the end of it.

[Nnyco]

Thats literally this entire game? We farm gear since years only to replace it.

[Jujudrood]

Look, I get it.
Let's pick a "today" feature and shit on it.

But come on... farming up gear to replace it with gear with more stats?
That's legit day 1 WoW stuff, people.
I mean, try to troll harder.

[Kramml]

Yes, you did. You said “how is this different from gear since the beginning of the game”. I’m pretty sure that includes tier and legendaries, which are notably absent from this expansion.

By the way, anyone can obtain mythic raiding mounts (and maybe titles? But who cares) from soloing the raid an expansion later. If they were actually exclusive to mythic raiders I would consider them a worthwhile incentive.

Some exclusivity was with the Trial of Valor mythic difficulty kill achievement that gave title "the Chosen" and red gear set of Trial of Valor. If i'm not mistaken these are unobtainable now.

Would actually like to see more implementations of sorts.

[Lollis]

Higher ilvl gear means more haste and crit which lead to smoother and more exciting gameplay. What's there to hate about it?
You expect that once you hit ilvl cap to sit there for years?

Not for me recently it doesn't. It means more boring mastery and more 'fucking omg it's terrible fuck this stat' versatility

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Ree.

[cparle87]

Yes, you did. You said “how is this different from gear since the beginning of the game”. I’m pretty sure that includes tier and legendaries, which are notably absent from this expansion.

By the way, anyone can obtain mythic raiding mounts (and maybe titles? But who cares) from soloing the raid an expansion later. If they were actually exclusive to mythic raiders I would consider them a worthwhile incentive.

Again, I didn't say anything about tier of legendaries. Don't put words in my mouth.

If your whole argument is "who cares about getting things when they're current I'll get them 3 years from now when they're easy" that's kinda sad. I thought the general playerbase consensus was that removing content was bad.

[Mightytasty]

Again, I didn't say anything about tier of legendaries. Don't put words in my mouth.

If your whole argument is "who cares about getting things when they're current I'll get them 3 years from now when they're easy" that's kinda sad. I thought the general playerbase consensus was that removing content was bad.

Apparently me offering an example that refutes your argument is “putting words in your mouth”.

[cparle87]

Apparently me offering an example that refutes your argument is “putting words in your mouth”.

Since you seem to be completely misunderstanding me, I'll make it nice and simple.
You said "Every season you're simply farming for the same gear that you already had just at a higher item level." That's why I underlined that part when I quoted you the first time. THAT is the part of your statement that I am refuting. I never said anything about legendaries, tier, or any of that stuff. You just assumed I was and kept doubling down on me. And then I proceeded to tell you that's how it's always been. Find the gear with your best stats, and traits in the current sense, farm it until you get it. Then do it again when the next patch happens. You're acting like it's something new.

[Tharkkun]

One of the major flaws of Azerite was the issue of having to farm for the same traits that you already had just at a higher item level. How is this any different to Mythic+? Every season you're simply farming for the same gear that you already had just at a higher item level.

I don't feel like the current Mythic+ system is very sustainable in the long term. It needs a drastic overhaul and fast. And this problem has been made far worse with the gear normalisation between dungeons and raids and the introduction of seasons in BFA. As soon as people realise that their character progression in the next 18 months is simply going to be farming for the same gear in the same BFA dungeons, I think that interest in the system is going to die out.

I can't imagine the M+ loot carrot lasting beyond BFA as the system currently stands.

Hence the reason they added the ability to buy the items from the vendor Jaylock. There's no need to farm when it's guaranteed like the old badge system. But really it's not different than farming raids week in, week out for that rare drop. Nothing makes you happy though.

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Because they are fundamentally different items. Different item look, rarity, stats, bonuses, etc. It provided a sense of progression and the feeling that you've come somewhere. Now it's farming literally the same item every season until the end of expansion, and worse yet, Blizzard keeps buffing the hp of dungeons every patch so the relative strength of the items remains the same.

How many times can Blizzard trick the player base into farming the same items every patch?

You tell us? You're the one subbed, unhappy and still playing.

[Trend]

It is a hamster wheel, but there are still limits to madness. In legion there were 4.5 raids (I call ToV half a raid ). Imagine if the exact same gear (trinkets etc.) had dropped from all the raids. That would be sad.

Every new raid tier brings new gear. Which is great. But why shouldn't M+ seasons do the same. Even though it is the same dungeons. It would be great if they could also give us new dungeons each season, but "baby steps" you know

I'm mostly into raiding in WOW. Mythic raiding is the reason why I still play the game. But I feel bad for players who mainly do M+ as they have to look at the same gear for 2 years.

I do raid and I do m+. I understand what you're saying, but I also personally don't care. It's binary for me, either an upgrade or not. And it's not like raid gear has gameplay impacting changes ... as if you get this new thing X and now everything is different. It's just upgrades to be able to do harder stuff or the same stuff faster. I personally don't care whether or not it is called the same thing as something else I have or that it looks the same. Again, I understand others may disagree with me, that's just where I'm coming from.

Also, the thing I was responding to was the idea that the gear system broke. Before Legion people didn't do dungeons at max level that much because there was no point. With the keystone system in Legion and carrying through BfA, a lot of people are doing a lot of dungeons over a long period of time now. I don't think that points to something being "broken". Sure there are always ways to improve things, but out of all the real problems with BfA, I don't think this is one of them.

Lastly, you refer to Legion as if something changed. The analog to Legion raids is BfA raids. And BfA keystones are like Legion keystones. Nothing has changed in this regard.

[Mightytasty]

Since you seem to be completely misunderstanding me, I'll make it nice and simple.
You said "Every season you're simply farming for the same gear that you already had just at a higher item level." That's why I underlined that part when I quoted you the first time. THAT is the part of your statement that I am refuting. I never said anything about legendaries, tier, or any of that stuff. You just assumed I was and kept doubling down on me. And then I proceeded to tell you that's how it's always been. Find the gear with your best stats, and traits in the current sense, farm it until you get it. Then do it again when the next patch happens. You're acting like it's something new.

I didn't say that, that was a different poster. Also you're not making sense, you say you're refuting the statement yet you also say that's how it's always been. Since I'm thoroughly confused at this point I'm just going to drop an obligatory "Azerite gear is shit" and leave the thread.

[Kaver]

I do raid and I do m+. I understand what you're saying, but I also personally don't care. It's binary for me, either an upgrade or not. And it's not like raid gear has gameplay impacting changes ... as if you get this new thing X and now everything is different. It's just upgrades to be able to do harder stuff or the same stuff faster. I personally don't care whether or not it is called the same thing as something else I have or that it looks the same. Again, I understand others may disagree with me, that's just where I'm coming from.

Also, the thing I was responding to was the idea that the gear system broke. Before Legion people didn't do dungeons at max level that much because there was no point. With the keystone system in Legion and carrying through BfA, a lot of people are doing a lot of dungeons over a long period of time now. I don't think that points to something being "broken". Sure there are always ways to improve things, but out of all the real problems with BfA, I don't think this is one of them.

Lastly, you refer to Legion as if something changed. The analog to Legion raids is BfA raids. And BfA keystones are like Legion keystones. Nothing has changed in this regard.

I only referred to Legion raids because BFA still isn’t finished. It was not to compare the two expansions. The point was about going through a whole expansion with the same gear. Wow can get a little repetitive from time to time and small things like new gear types can help a little.