The Evolution of Civilization

[Ubermensch]

Who would decide which buildings have value and which do not?

Does a church serve any purpose other than to help the religious maintain their beliefs and act out on them? No, that could easily be replaced with a hospital, which would do far more than prayers ever could.

That's the kind of thinking I'm talking about. Eyes forward, new, not old.

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Higher in what way? Higher in relation to? Why are we doing this?

Higher in relation to what we current have. Higher in that we're capable of thinking objectively and working together as a species. We're doing this because we need to survive and the only way is to advance.

Why is the script supposed to play out like a Star Trek Borg fanfiction or the dreams of someone with severe crippling aspergers syndrome and spent WAY too much time playing with toy robots?

It all reads like some lame wank, a wank you go on and on about with every thread.

I have no clue what a Borg is and I have no clue what a Toy Robots is but I appreciate your attacks as they made me giggle a little bit since I'm not feeling too well today. But it's okay, Theodarzna, we're all in this together.

[Stonecloak]

It wouldn't be an instant process. It would be gradual, with a crutch system such as UBI to help us transition from a scarcity based society towards a post-scarcity based society. It would be a process that reflects and matches the current technological level of our civilization. But ultimately, we don't want to keep currency around because it's a massive hindrance in every aspect.

I don’t know man. I don’t think an evolution in this sense is even likely to happen. I’m not even sure many people even know about UBI. I think it’s more like a psychological dam unfortunately. We can’t separate the labor from the currency, and at this point it’s not like we can just shut down what we have going right now. Many people would suffer.

I’m more or less interested what we do when automation becomes the norm, which it looks to be starting.

I feel like it should look something like this...

-machine takes over mans job to make mans life easier = Man’s life is easier

But I feel like it may be

-machine takes over mans job to make mans life easier = Man struggles to find a currency proving his life to be easier

I don’t necessarily think it’s as simple a problem as that, but the problem exists psychologically, and it’s deeply engrained. I think maybe future generations will think differently and hopefully move past that.

[The One Percent]

Does a church serve any purpose other than to help the religious maintain their beliefs and act out on them? No, that could easily be replaced with a hospital, which would do far more than prayers ever could.

That's the kind of thinking I'm talking about. Eyes forward, new, not old.

I'm an atheist, just throwing that out there so people can understand where my bias is. It is not acceptable to seize someone else's property (land, buildings, and whatever is contained therein) just because you feel that property would be better suited for your ideas. I do believe that religious organizations should be taxed just like any other business, however.

[Theodarzna]

Higher in relation to what we current have. Higher in that we're capable of thinking objectively and working together as a species. We're doing this because we need to survive and the only way is to advance.

Advance to what? What leads to survival? We've survived fine without becoming borg bots.

I have no clue what a Borg is and I have no clue what a Toy Robots is but I appreciate your attacks as they made me giggle a little bit since I'm not feeling too well today. But it's okay, Theodarzna, we're all in this together.

... you don't know what a toy or a robot is.

[Ubermensch]

Advance to what? What leads to survival? We've survived fine without becoming borg bots.

Haven't you read anything in this thread? I've explained how we can't remain in the same state forever, we need to evolve, we need to change, we need to spread out into vacuum and to other planets or galaxies. We need to keep progressing otherwise we stagnate and die, either through extinction, war, natural disaster or regression.

It's not such an alien concept, Theodarzna.

... you don't know what a toy or a robot is.

I'm sorry, I thought you were making another reference to a cartoon show that you watch.

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I'm an atheist, just throwing that out there so people can understand where my bias is. It is not acceptable to seize someone else's property (land, buildings, and whatever is contained therein) just because you feel that property would be better suited for your ideas. I do believe that religious organizations should be taxed just like any other business, however.

Objectively, it is better to have a hospital or a science lab than a church, would you at least be able to agree with that?

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I don’t know man. I don’t think an evolution in this sense is even likely to happen. I’m not even sure many people even know about UBI. I think it’s more like a psychological dam unfortunately. We can’t separate the labor from the currency, and at this point it’s not like we can just shut down what we have going right now. Many people would suffer.

I’m more or less interested what we do when automation becomes the norm, which it looks to be starting.

I feel like it should look something like this...

-machine takes over mans job to make mans life easier = Man’s life is easier

But I feel like it may be

-machine takes over mans job to make mans life easier = Man struggles to find a currency proving his life to be easier

I don’t necessarily think it’s as simple a problem as that, but the problem exists psychologically, and it’s deeply engrained. I think maybe future generations will think differently and hopefully move past that.

You're right, that's what I'm talking about. Automation will take over in all jobs within the next 200 - 300 years. That's why we need to prepare to change the mentality of the entire species now before it's too late and we become a bunch of regressive meat slabs without purpose, being sustained by the machines and creations of the last generation.

We need to start changing school systems now from a career based one to a knowledge based one. That's one of the first things we need to do, change the way humans think lives should be lived. Because soon, jobs and careers won't be the core of human life anymore, it'll be an ancient relic just like churches. We need to evolve.

[Stelio Kontos]

Time for Untermensch's monthly "let's destroy everything that makes us human and become the borg" fantasy thread.

No thanks, a world with our ruins, temples, churches, great wonders, etc is a better world than the one you're fantasizing about.

I'd rather see our civilization completely collapse than have us lose what makes us human in the process of fulfilling some weirdo's view of what humans should be.

[Calfredd]

I have no clue what a Borg is and I have no clue what a Toy Robots is but I appreciate your attacks as they made me giggle a little bit since I'm not feeling too well today. But it's okay, Theodarzna, we're all in this together.

I told you what the Borg was last time you made this thread and I'll link them again so commit it to memory this time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Borg

[Ubermensch]

Time for Untermensch's monthly "let's destroy everything that makes us human and become the borg" fantasy thread.

No thanks, a world with our ruins, temples, churches, great wonders, etc is a better world than the one you're fantasizing about.

I'd rather see our civilization completely collapse than have us lose what makes us human in the process of fulfilling some weirdo's view of what humans should be.

Ah, hello there, Stelio. You're here to troll again, I assume? Maybe you'd like to cite a poem for us on how the human race is beautiful and sacred and how their emotions is everything.

I'd rather see humanity advance than to collapse just because they didn't get to keep their petty emotions and nature. Do you wish you lived in tribal times? They sound perfect for you. Lots of killing, lots of slavery, lots of art too but mostly just killing, raping and slavery. Ritualistic chanting as they're about to sacrifice the guy who proposes they grow crops instead of worshiping the sun with decapitation.

You can run around wearing a loincloth, stabbing people and splattering feces all over a piece of paper and truly engage in the "beauty" of the human race.

Humanity is just so beautiful and we're clearly going to be able to advance while we're waging war and hating each other. And we're totally not going to end up going extinct.



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I told you what the Borg was last time you made this thread and I'll link them again so commit it to memory this time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borg
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Borg

Forgive me for not remembering some Star Trek wiki page to the T. I'm not as committed to these things as you or Stelio are, unfortunately. But it's good to see that you both have an interest in sci-fi, even if Star Trek is bordering on fantasy.

[Theodarzna]

Haven't you read anything in this thread? I've explained how we can't remain in the same state forever, we need to evolve, we need to change, we need to spread out into vacuum and to other planets or galaxies. We need to keep progressing otherwise we stagnate and die, either through extinction, war, natural disaster or regression.

It's not such an alien concept, Theodarzna.

We have zero precedent for what a space-faring civilization looks like, so why is your make believe answer the right one?

[Ubermensch]

We have zero precedent for what a space-faring civilization looks like, so why is your make believe answer the right one?

Just because we have no frame of reference doesn't mean we can't forge our own path for ourselves. We've been doing that the entire time we've been here. If we can't even work together on this planet, what makes you think anything is going to work out wonderfully as a space-faring civilization while keeping these things around? Do you think we're even going to reach interstellar levels of technology before we destroy ourselves or have a vast disparity of equality between the wealthy and poor?

Do you think it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows? Like Star Trek? With this current society, if we ever created post-scarcity technology, the wealthy and powerful will keep it and we won't ever get to use any of it ourselves. If genetic manipulation/CRISPR editing technology advances, the wealthy and powerful will just use it to subdue the poor by forcefully editing them to be dumb, obedient and unable to perform any functions other than labor. If we invent interstellar technology, the rich and powerful will have access to it so they can get away from us and live in an Utopia while we're stuck here in ruins.

And that's just one example of how this society is just dystopian in nature. The better the technology and knowledge is, the worse it'll be for those who aren't at the top of the food chain and the better it will be for those who are. You're living in a dream world if you think this doesn't all end with death, blood and fire or just a depressing and gradual stagnation until we all regress and die out.

What will the wealthy and powerful need you, the poor and dumb people for, when they have automated jobs? You'll just be herded off into quarantined sectors where you're out of sight and out of mind while the powerful can live in their Utopias. Have you even thought any of this through? What all of this means for us? Why we need to change the mindset of society? Why it's important we do these things early before it's too late?

This is necessary for us to do.

[Theodarzna]

Just because we have no frame of reference doesn't mean we can't forge our own path for ourselves.

Given your answer is utterly detested and nobody wants it other than you, perhaps its your frame that sucks.

[Calfredd]

Do you think it's all going to be sunshine and rainbows? Like Star Trek? With this current society, if we ever created post-scarcity technology, the wealthy and powerful will keep it and we won't ever get to use any of it ourselves. If genetic manipulation/CRISPR editing technology advances, the wealthy and powerful will just use it to subdue the poor by forcefully editing them to be dumb, obedient and unable to perform any functions other than labor. If we invent interstellar technology, the rich and powerful will have access to it so they can get away from us and live in an Utopia while we're stuck here in ruins.

You already showed you know nothing of Star Trek or you wouldn't speak such rot. And "necessary" for us to become Borg... but with some free will? You had to have been sleeping through all of your history classes or never bothered to follow up on your lessons because lobotomizing humans of their creativity and intuition would not help us invent and create and discover. We'd be a base predator who didn't bother to sharpen sticks to pierce and throw at our prey, we'd just go after slower game or, worse yet, starve trying to after the same animal over and over again.

[smityx]

I don't believe that our Civilization evolved but was more or less creatively designed.

[Stelio Kontos]

Given your answer is utterly detested and nobody wants it other than you, perhaps its your frame that sucks.

It's ok, we'll get another steamer of a topic dropped on the rug in a month or so.

We could make a calendar on the threads that pop up regularly. Untermensch's inane borg fetish thread. Circumcision thread. (Insert Scandinavian country here) is the best/happiest country in the world.

[Ubermensch]

Given your answer is utterly detested and nobody wants it other than you, perhaps its your frame that sucks.

Nobody? I've met people who align with my sort of thinking, who don't like tribalism, who think that we should focus on advancing and working together rather than regressing and giving into our own primal desires like savages. Which is the world that you and most people in here want.

[luciano]

Science tells us who, what, when, where, and how. Religion and philosophy tell us why.

Beyond that, there's no reason to remove the original. But we should add the augmented/virtual experience for everyone who wants it. There are some amazing potential uses of this technology, especially in healing trauma, as well as for visiting almost anywhere experiencing anything anywhere ever. Imagine a virtual field trip to the signing of the Declaration (or a similar historical event in your country).

The video games alone would make anything we have now look like Pong. How can CoD compete with the ability to port in to a literal Roman battle where your cost of death is...just a game, but it feels like you're really there.

The point is, none of that incredibly cool stuff is helped by tearing down churches or whatever.

[Seranthor]

Well, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about setting up our civilization for humanity 2.0 but we've been subjective about it based on what culture or environment we grew up with so we're quite scattered. To condense it, we'll need to be as you say "dehumanized", we'll need to be evolved without the things that cause us to split up into groups and fight each other.

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I'm looking at it with the same objective view the universe is made of. It is objectively, realistically, something that isn't supposed to be held as sacred. It's a tool, history has shown us how it's a tool.

So your solution to advance humanity is to destroy humanity. Is that your testimony?

[Ubermensch]

It's ok, we'll get another steamer of a topic dropped on the rug in a month or so.

We could make a calendar on the threads that pop up regularly. Untermensch's inane borg fetish thread. Circumcision thread. (Insert Scandinavian country here) is the best/happiest country in the world.

And let's not forget to include "I was born in the wrong generation, ancient history was better than modern civilization, we should go back to being savage tribespeople and paint art with our own feces and hunt down anyone who doesn't want this lifestyle. And did I mention my Greek ancestry yet? Yeah, I'm an Ancient Greek man." comments from the one and only, Stelio Kontos.

I mean, representation is important, is it not, Stelio?

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You already showed you know nothing of Star Trek or you wouldn't speak such rot. And "necessary" for us to become Borg... but with some free will? You had to have been sleeping through all of your history classes or never bothered to follow up on your lessons because lobotomizing humans of their creativity and intuition would not help us invent and create and discover. We'd be a base predator who didn't bother to sharpen sticks to pierce and throw at our prey, we'd just go after slower game or, worse yet, starve trying to after the same animal over and over again.

I don't think you've read anything I've written just based on the fact that you said I want to remove creativity.

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So your solution to advance humanity is to destroy humanity. Is that your testimony?

Evolve from humanity, yes.

[Stelio Kontos]

paint art with our own feces

Weird flex, but ok.

[Ubermensch]

Science tells us who, what, when, where, and how. Religion and philosophy tell us why.

Philosophy does, religion just makes up stuff.

Beyond that, there's no reason to remove the original

That monstrosity they call the "Notre Dame" takes up tons of space, they should build a science lab center there for young people to engage in science and learn more about our universe. The Great Pyramids, why do we need them? We can build far better pyramids if we wanted to. Just turn the whole tourist site into an observatory or something.