[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Varodoc]

Does DnD expect me to take Cersei's army seriously? Especially coming out of the war against the Army of the Dead, that was the largest and most terrifying army in history? Imagine if the Scourge was defeated in patch 3.1 and the rest of Wrath was about the Scarlet Onslaught, because that's what is happening here.

[RobertoCarlos]

"Half of cersei's army is gone due to measels and the golden army left because they miss their elephants"

SubvErTeD

[Thereturn]

Am i the only one put off by bron? The guy has been a "i dont give a shit" cutthroat and friend to both tyrion and jamie even saving their lives but now wants to kill em both for a bit of dough?

[Gorsameth]

Am i the only one put off by bronn? The guy has been a "i dont give a shit" cutthroat and friend to both tyrion and jamie even saving their lives but now wants to kill em both for a bit of dough?

It was completely out of character and just plain stupid.
"So, I threaten you and then you give me a castle and land. completely ignoring that you can simply have me killed at any time when I come to collect that reward or at any point after because you know exactly who I am and where I will be".

Simply shit writing.

[McNeil]

Their latest episode The Last of the Starks only scored a 6.6/10 on IMDB which is considerably lower than all other episodes, which range mostly between 8.5-9.5 ratings.

[Something Wicked]

Even if the books aren't finished GRR Martin have explained the story in detail to the producers and have said he will not change it for the books.

I think you grossly misunderstood what he said.

What he said is that he's not changing HIS story to account for anything that happens in the show. The show is it's own thing as far as he's concerned; his story is HIS story. So whatever he had planned, none of that is changing just because of what they wrote for the show.

Song of Ice and Fire is about Targaryans having sex with Starks.

And again you guys miss the point of the title. "A Song of Ice and Fire" basically means this is Jon Snow's story; it's a song/ballad/epic about the person who's both Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryean).

Martin has clearly read up on how things worked back in the darker ages, including bards (real bards; not the gay ass minstrels you people get obsessed with courtesy of Dungeons & Dragons) and druids and how they used songs to tell their epic stories.

All of that said, the producers of this show really dropped the ball. Admittedly they had to cut a a lot out of the story simply due to the constraints of a television series and limited episodes/time. (Just imagine how much worse it would be if it were a movie, even a trilogy.) But the stark contrast between it taking episodes to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing to suddenly going all around the world multiple times in a single episode was just an awful choice, especially since everything else seemed to happen at the same pace as normal (mostly the conversations and whatnot).

Even understanding that, however, they just did an awful job of everything once they lost the books as a reference point. Sure, they may have had some notes from Martin, but they lacked all of his dialogue, style, and knowledge of the deeper secrets of the story that the viewers/readers appreciate about it. Losing that really hurt the show badly, and now it's ending similar to how Lost ended. And that's not a good thing. At all.

[IIamaKing]

Honestly, episode 5 will probably have a Gandalf moment(Like in two towers when the orcs attacks helms deep) were some magical army suddenly appears to help defeat cercei. No idea who or what it can be.

"Gandalf moment" You mean something foreshadowed well and set up to be paid off? No, we will have a "where the fuck did they come from moment".

[Shadowferal]

One assassin will end it all.
I mean it's hard to top off what she has already accomplished.

[Graeham II]

Honestly? As terrible as the writing has been this season, a lot of what people want to happen is just as bad.

[Khaza-R]

My prediction. Dany wakes up the stone dragons and wipes the floor with Euron and the Golden Company. Toasts the rest of the city as an example to the rest of the 7 Kingdoms

[IIamaKing]

Honestly? As terrible as the writing has been this season, a lot of what people want to happen is just as bad.

In the defense of fan theories(that I often make fun of) the fans are not professional writers who are paid millions.

[crusadernero]

"Gandalf moment" You mean something foreshadowed well and set up to be paid off? No, we will have a "where the fuck did they come from moment".

Yeah well cercei got the magic Iron Fleet that can stealth and travel quite fast, so I would assume John & Dany got something like that hidden away :P

[ohiostate124]

Honestly? As terrible as the writing has been this season, a lot of what people want to happen is just as bad.

And a lot of them are better than what we got.

[Graeham II]

And a lot of them are better than what we got.

Such as?

Most I've seen are cliche and predictable with little regard for nuance or respect for the grey morality that made the setting in the first place.

[Sooba]

Such as?

Most I've seen are cliche and predictable with little regard for nuance or respect for the grey morality that made the setting in the first place.

There was a minor cut linked in this thread just the other day that changed the order of some scenes and it was already better than the show itself.

[Mascotte]

Such as?

Most I've seen are cliche and predictable with little regard for nuance or respect for the grey morality that made the setting in the first place.

Tbh when the big 'reveal' happens in E5 i doubt alot of people would have seen it coming.
Since most of it is based on outside intel (twitter/instagram/facebook) i wont post it (spoiler discussion doesn't equal leaked discussion imo) but there are to many signs for it not to be true at this point i guess.
So if the writers come up with a twist the general viewer doesn't expect isn't that by definition a decent twist then?

[crusadernero]

I think you grossly misunderstood what he said.

What he said is that he's not changing HIS story to account for anything that happens in the show. The show is it's own thing as far as he's concerned; his story is HIS story. So whatever he had planned, none of that is changing just because of what they wrote for the show.



And again you guys miss the point of the title. "A Song of Ice and Fire" basically means this is Jon Snow's story; it's a song/ballad/epic about the person who's both Ice (Stark) and Fire (Targaryean).

Martin has clearly read up on how things worked back in the darker ages, including bards (real bards; not the gay ass minstrels you people get obsessed with courtesy of Dungeons & Dragons) and druids and how they used songs to tell their epic stories.

All of that said, the producers of this show really dropped the ball. Admittedly they had to cut a a lot out of the story simply due to the constraints of a television series and limited episodes/time. (Just imagine how much worse it would be if it were a movie, even a trilogy.) But the stark contrast between it taking episodes to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing to suddenly going all around the world multiple times in a single episode was just an awful choice, especially since everything else seemed to happen at the same pace as normal (mostly the conversations and whatnot).

Even understanding that, however, they just did an awful job of everything once they lost the books as a reference point. Sure, they may have had some notes from Martin, but they lacked all of his dialogue, style, and knowledge of the deeper secrets of the story that the viewers/readers appreciate about it. Losing that really hurt the show badly, and now it's ending similar to how Lost ended. And that's not a good thing. At all.

TV shows will forever be remembered for how it ended, no matter how good it was up until the last season/last episodes. Same as with alot of video games.

Look at the Mass Effect series. Alot of people(including me) praised the game during the first, second and about half of the third game. But when we came to the end and eventually completed the game, people were very upset(including me). Suddenly it went from a great game to alot of critique and left a bad taste in everyones mouth. The ending ruined everything that led to it.

Good TV show writers know when to stop, even though they could keep on going. Good tv show writers also know that they cant rush to the end, it wont be good then.

GoT is heading down this route. Unless something great happens in the last two episodes, the whole show will not be praised as it once did.

[ohiostate124]

Such as?

Most I've seen are cliche and predictable with little regard for nuance or respect for the grey morality that made the setting in the first place.

I’ve seen rewrites of the Battle of Winterfell where the White Walkers actually do something that are much better than what we got. I’ve seen re-edits of the whole Euron/Rhaegal scene that improve it so much due to actually making sense. If the leaks are even remotely true, I’m sure we’ll see better fan ideas about the ending too.

- - - Updated - - -

There was a minor cut linked in this thread just the other day that changed the order of some scenes and it was already better than the show itself.

I think I’m referencing what you’re talking about. Improved the scene immensely.

[Mascotte]

TV shows will forever be remembered for how it ended, no matter how good it was up until the last season/last episodes. Same as with alot of video games.

BS.

Sopranos is still considered as one of the best shows ever, but even today its ending is still discussed for being completely open to interpretation.
Same with The Wire, the final season is still considered as the weakest in the entire series but the show as a whole is still on every show viewers top10 list.
An ending doesn't define a show.

[crusadernero]

Tbh when the big 'reveal' happens in E5 i doubt alot of people would have seen it coming.
Since most of it is based on outside intel (twitter/instagram/facebook) i wont post it (spoiler discussion doesn't equal leaked discussion imo) but there are to many signs for it not to be true at this point i guess.
So if the writers come up with a twist the general viewer doesn't expect isn't that by definition a decent twist then?

Twists are indeed welcome, but its about how they are presented thats been the main issue in season 8. Theres been several big monents and cool stuff happening, but some of it just feel out of place or rushed just for the WOW effect.