Is there any way to permanently get rid of pornography or censor it from the youth?

[Kraenen]

Well Porn isn't the reward here, the same outcome is gained with or without porn, it's a means to an end. You're absolutely confusing porn with the reward of sexual stimulation, when the actual core of your issue is masturbation, you're just unwilling to concede that point. If you removed porn you would still have the same situation, you would just move the viewing glass.

No, you can't. As I've already said to someone else (stating my underlying perspective on porn):

You seem to be conflating probability and intensity with mere possibility. It's a tough challenge to prove the psychological effects of hardcore, high-intensity porn are the exact same as masturbating to a cave painting.

when the actual core of your issue is masturbation

No, I really never said anything close to that. This is another time you're mischaracterizing me. I don't see the reason you're doing it though. It's most likely you just need an easy shortcut for what I believe in, and you've associated people who don't like porn with people who don't like sex. None of my comments line up with this.

I understand what is being said, I just completely disagree with you on grounds of rational thinking. Sexual stimulation is a very personal thing that can vary from moment to moment, you're trying to make the case that porn is different/more effective than the minds own imagination and that's why it deserves special treatment in this discussion, despite that it's a completely subjective view point.

What rational thinking involves changing the subject from porn use to sexual stimulation in general? Or how about completely ignoring the degree of intensity of a stimuli involved in how it affects behavior, in favor of, "they're both a means to an ends, so they're both really the same in terms of the outcome". This isn't a rational appreciation of the subject.

The only objective point to look at is that it's one of many methods used to help you get off, it's neither better nor worse in any objective measurable way, removing it would not change the outcome.

Again, plain wrong. If you need a simple way to disprove what you just said (since you're interested in rational thinking), try to think of why people have advanced from cave paintings and naughty art to hard-core and VR porn. Hmmm. Maybe there's a difference? No, couldn't be. They're both exactly the same and the fact that one has a higher level of pleasure (and therefore reward and conditioning) couldn't possibly have any effect on your neurochemistry or your outward behavior. Associating positive stimuli with a behavior has never been found to increase that behavior, after all.

The fact that such a simple position - that basic psychology exists and that our behavior is modified by the stimuli that we consume, to the degree that it's consumed - is met with stonewalling opposition and twisting of the person's reported beliefs, tells me there's something else going on here.

[Bigbazz]

What rational thinking involves changing the subject from porn use to sexual stimulation in general?
.

Porn is used to help sexual stimulation, wank material, you're not watching porn like your latest episode of game of thrones. It's wank material. Some people like porn, others prefer their imaginations, other people like to mix it up. The porn is not the reward, it's a tool, a means to an end. Stop trying to separate porn from sexual stimulation.

If you removed porn then people are still wanking, which is the actual reward. If you have a problem with people not making the effort to go out and find a female then you should not blame it on porn, you should blame it on masturbation. Masturbation is fine and healthy, it's normal.

Again, plain wrong

So you believe that sexual stimulation preference isn't subjective/individual/constantly changing? You're trying to argue that Porn is objectively superior? Because to disagree with me here this is what you're saying, this is what you have to stand by.

[PC2]

We are destroying our planet, add on top of that climate change, war, and nuclear weapons... We may destroy ourselves.

The planet isn't being destroyed. The natural ecosystem is being plowed over by civilization. I assume you meant the ecosystem.

[Stonecloak]

but how does that disprove the notion that masturbation is a good release as proven in multiple studies?

edit:

cause trying to stipulate that a study is biased or flawed in it's design isn't exactly a viable response when multiple studies have found similar results

Masturbation may be a good release, but if you really believe that people are just masturbating to nothing, and not porn, then I think you are naive as hell.

[Kraenen]

Porn is used to help sexual stimulation, wank material, you're not watching porn like your latest episode of game of thrones. It's wank material. Some people like porn, others prefer their imaginations, other people like to mix it up. The porn is not the reward, it's a tool, a means to an end. Stop trying to separate porn from sexual stimulation.

If you removed porn then people are still wanking, which is the actual reward. If you have a problem with people not making the effort to go out and find a female then you should not blame it on porn, you should blame it on masturbation. Masturbation is fine and healthy, it's normal.

So you believe that sexual stimulation preference isn't subjective/individual/constantly changing? You're trying to argue that Porn is objectively superior? Because to disagree with me here this is what you're saying, this is what you have to stand by.

Is it the word reward? This is used in its psychological fashion - that the positive stimuli you receive will increase your association to that behavior and will increase the likelihood of that behavior occurring. This is why porn is rewarding - it's a positive stimuli, it gives you pleasure.

I just legit am trying to understand why you can't parse this conversation. I mean you make the same mistake again and again:

If you removed porn then people are still wanking, which is the actual reward.

Conflation of probability with possibility, and then assertion that wanking is the actual reward, a statement which does not preclude porn being rewarding, on top of this the continued misdirection back to the general topic of sex/masturbation. You just keep... doing this... unrelentingly.

[Stonecloak]

How is it not debatable? It's very debatable, you can't just make a claim based on nothing after making a sweeping assumption (also based on nothing) and then say it's not debatable. No nerves were hit, I think you've a twisted mind to even come into the conversation the way you did and I feel I'm clearly not talking to average everyday folks, but perhaps a bunch of porn addicts discussing a very unusual viewpoint.

Porn is a means to an end, certainly not a reward. Perhaps if you never go out and meet people you'd lack the imagination to understand why porn is not some superior rewarding method of sexual stimulation. Haven't you heard the term "wank bank"? The wank bank is the source of best material, straight from the experiences of the real world and your imagination. Removing porn doesn't stop people masturbating, and at the core of the discussion is masturbation, if you remove porn you just move the goalpost in the discussion.

People arguing that porn is the reward are porn addicts with issues, they do not represent the norm or the average.

You have a right to argue that, but I think it's very foolish. With the availability of Porn, and how our civilization has changed as far as relationships go, you'd have to be willfully blinding yourself to the prospect of porn having negative effects. Actually you are, because there's scientific evidence that porn is bad. Masturbation by itself? Fine, there doesn't seem to be an issue there, but percentage of masturbators that are actually watching porn? I'd argue most, in the 90% plus. If you disagree I think you're in denial.

[mickybrighteyes]

Masturbation may be a good release, but if you really believe that people are just masturbating to nothing, and not porn, then I think you are naive as hell.

um... k? that wasn't part of my posts at all.

[Kraenen]

People arguing that porn is the reward

No one is saying this. This is representative of your problem in understanding other people talking to you in this conversation.

[Chromeshellking]

Nice to see this still going. Sits back and watches it unfold more.

[Bigbazz]

Is it the word reward? This is used in its psychological fashion - that the positive stimuli you receive will increase your association to that behavior and will increase the likelihood of that behavior occurring. This is why porn is rewarding - it's a positive stimuli, it gives you pleasure.

I just legit am trying to understand why you can't parse this conversation. I mean you make the same mistake again and again:



Conflation of probability with possibility, and then assertion that wanking is the actual reward, a statement which does not preclude porn being rewarding, on top of this the continued misdirection back to the general topic of sex/masturbation. You just keep... doing this... unrelentingly.

Just gathering your thoughts here, your opinions appear to be.

1. Porn objectively superior to other methods, subjective personal preference does not exist.
2. New methods/developments in porn shows that a video is objectively superior to a photo (again personal preference does not exist for you)
3. Imagination is objectively inferior to porn (again personal preference does not exist for you)

Maybe for you porn is the reward, but this isn't a thread about your personal porn addiction, if we're talking about a topic in a broad sense we cannot base it on your personal projections and beliefs and let you pretend that applies for everyone. People get turned on looking at porn, people get turned on when they think about having sex with their partners too, people get turned on when they remember intimate situations.

Many people find porn boring, they could get off easier to a picture of their crush fully clothed than a hardcore porn video... It's completely personal, situational and subjective. Your viewpoint pretty much relies on you ignoring any context or nuance to the subject, all personal preference and just projecting your own porn addiction to the rest of the population.

No one is saying this. This is representative of your problem in understanding other people talking to you in this conversation.

Short memory?

The pleasure of sexual stimulation from porn is a reward in psychological terms.

You literally began the discussion by saying this.

[Kraenen]

Just gathering your thoughts here, your opinions appear to be...

It's like talking to a brick wall... Nothing in your response indicated you really have read anything I've written.

- - - Updated - - -

People arguing that porn is the reward

No one is saying this. This is representative of your problem in understanding other people talking to you in this conversation.

Short memory?

The pleasure of sexual stimulation from porn is a reward in psychological terms.

You literally began the discussion by saying this.

Thanks for pointing this out. This is the reason you're just not getting it. You can't read.

You keep twisting everything around to suit your... purposes? I really don't know why you do it. Maybe you're just on autopilot.

[Bigbazz]

It's like talking to a brick wall... Nothing in your response indicated you really have read anything I've written.

You aren't even aware of what you've written yourself it seems.

It's like talking to a brick wall... Nothing in your response indicated you really have read anything I've written.

- - - Updated - - -



Thanks for pointing this out. This is the reason you're just not getting it. You can't read.

You keep twisting everything around to suit your... purposes? I really don't know why you do it. Maybe you're just on autopilot.

You began the discussion by saying that porn was a psychological reward, and I responded to that. At least read your own posts, and then read mine.

[Kraenen]

You began the discussion by saying that porn was a psychological reward, and I responded to that. At least read your own posts, and then read mine.

Yes, it is a reward. You never disagreed with this. You disagreed with the notion that porn is "the" reward, and proceeded to argue against porn being any different from masturbation, and that masturbation is "the" reward. There's just no point in saying this. It doesn't preclude porn being rewarding.

[Stonecloak]

You aren't even aware of what you've written yourself it seems.



You began the discussion by saying that porn was a psychological reward, and I responded to that. At least read your own posts, and then read mine.

We got a full fledged porn addict here folks. No chance for this guy. Ears, and eyes shut to any sense. Also the obvious disassembly of ideas to try to prove a point, a well known tactic for confusing and derailing any facts. I bet your a stud too right? lol.

[Bigbazz]

We got a full fledged porn addict here folks. No chance for this guy. Ears, and eyes shut to any sense. Also the obvious disassembly of ideas to try to prove a point, a well known tactic for confusing and derailing any facts. I bet your a stud too right? lol.

What is wrong with you, jesus. Your first post was to suggest I try masturbating without porn, directly after I talked about masturbating without porn.... Then Ray says nobody claimed porn was the reward, just one page after he said porn was a psychological reward. Then you call me a Porn addict directly after I say that some people get harder for a picture of a fully clothed girl than a hardcore porn video.

I've literally tried to point out that Porn isn't all that when it comes to getting turned on/sexual stimulation, and that preference is a thing, and you've avoided reading my posts and created an imaginary foe because I disagree with you... You're crazy as fuck.

Yes, it is a reward. You never disagreed with this. You disagreed with the notion that porn is "the" reward, and proceeded to argue against porn being any different from masturbation, and that masturbation is "the" reward. There's just no point in saying this. It doesn't preclude porn being rewarding.

No I'm saying that if you remove Porn you don't remove masturbation, people will get turned on to their imaginations quite effectively without Porn, in my experience quite a lot more effectively than porn. The reward is masturbation/orgasm, Porn isn't a reward and it isn't the problem because it's a means to an end, there are many paths to that end.

[Hehalol]

I know in the US we try to teach older kids to steer their eyes away from pornography for their own good because it's sinful or harmful, but it seems futile based on the amount of sex-crazed teenagers on average. Parents and teachers still try if the movement of censorship against porn is any indication, but with how sexual content is so integrated into pop culture and all over the internet, it makes me wonder if it's just a losing battle and if it's pointless to even try.

The whole basis of your argument is mute. Young people are having less sex then ever. Go ahead and google it. And if young people were going out and fucking non-stop it wouldnt be because of porn.....it would be because of the link between young people and social media.....(i.e. Tinder, Snapchat,Facebook, etc... all of the "micro-cheating apps") Rethink your stand on porn....it doesnt harm anyone but addicts...

[Kraenen]

We got a full fledged porn addict here folks. No chance for this guy. Ears, and eyes shut to any sense. Also the obvious disassembly of ideas to try to prove a point, a well known tactic for confusing and derailing any facts. I bet your a stud too right? lol.

Like I said it's like talking to a brick wall. I wonder why people so persistently and consistently either twist words, make straw men, or just ignore points? Is it because we're talking about a highly addictive behavior that's being criticized?

[Kraenen]

The whole basis of your argument is mute. Young people are having less sex then ever. Go ahead and google it. And if young people were going out and fucking non-stop it wouldnt be because of porn.....it would be because of the link between young people and social media.....(i.e. Tinder, Snapchat,Facebook, etc... all of the "micro-cheating apps") Rethink your stand on porn....it doesnt harm anyone but addicts...

If kids are having less sex than ever, and we've had more porn than ever (and more hard-core too, with more specialties, fetishes available etc...), it's quite possible it would be because they're getting greater sexual relief from porn and have less motivation/hormones pushing them to engage with others for sex. I'd actually weigh more on the side that kids have less hormones these days to begin with (testosterone in particular has been dropping consistently for decades) and this could be driving a drop in sex drives. I'd still consider greater access to individual sexual relief at higher levels of pleasure to have an influential effect on sexual behavior as well.

[Bigbazz]

Like I said it's like talking to a brick wall. I wonder why people so persistently and consistently either twist words, make straw men, or just ignore points? Is it because we're talking about a highly addictive behavior that's being criticized?

Oh yes the person saying that Porn isn't more effective than the imagination is the one upset about porn being criticised, meanwhile you're talking about the evolution from dirty cave paintings to VR porn. All that does is give me the impression that you believe stimulation is not personal or subjective.

Can you understand that someone can look at a clothed woman in a photo and be more turned on from their imagination than a hardcore porn video? Can you understand that someone can remember an intimate moment from their youth and get more stimulated than any hardcore porn video?

Please by all means show me you're sane and that you can be on the same page and understand that the intensity of sexual stimulation does not necessarily increase or improve by watching a more hardcore porno, infact it can have the opposite effect. I think if you cannot understand this you're unable to separate your own preferences from your ability to evaluate the topic.

[Kraenen]

Oh yes the person saying that Porn isn't more effective than the imagination is the one upset about porn being criticised, meanwhile you're talking about the evolution from dirty cave paintings to VR porn.

This is a genuinely bizarre position to take. Do you really believe porn is not more stimulating than imagination? Do you really think there was no reason people 'improved' the technology of porn from paintings to VR porn? This line of thought can suffice for the whole back and forth since it's at the core of all this.