Loot distribution in 40 man

[sunwrathmother]

Back in the day, our main tank had prio to all the loot he wished. I remember his arrogant ass getting not only tank gear, but also any dps item he felt fancy about, for his dps/threat set ( even the first drake fang talisman that dropped for our guild ) ignoring all the other raiders. He was not affected by the DKP system we all had to endure because he was "the main tank".

Like we owed him the gear that dropped, like he was carrying us all. We started all with equal gear and soon we fed him with so many epics in order to survive (he was a total noob ) that it was unprofitable to lose him from the raid. We had to constantly keep him happy! That was vanilla mentality. Tanks were rare and good tanks were so scarce, that guilds were giving earth and water to have them in heir ranks.

I still remember his anger when I started offtanking with my druid bear pulling agrro from him and surviving broodlord better than his overgearred ass, he even whispered to healers not to heal me because its a meme spec.
I remember his fellow warriors having to settle with the leftovers he didnt want (or already had in his bags) in terms of gear and weapons and still having to lose DKP for these items.
I remember them cheering for having a bear offtank so that they could focus on dps and enjoy their class. Still he refused to tank with me because "only warriors are tanks" and that was after the bear druid fix of patch 1.8
He knew very little about his class and absolutely nothing about druids, however his word was the law. He thought it was preposterous for me to be a healer with 30 points in feral tree (30/21 HotW/NS build) and not be full resto like our guild master. Afterall, druids are only good for healing he said.

Then there was the guild master. She was a full resto druid with zero skills, always the first to die and the first to ask for a battle rez only to die again. I dont know how we managed to kill 2 bosses in Nax before TBC launch with so many noobs in our ranks.
She was also not affected by the DKP system. I cryied for every item she had reserved before each boss kill, for it was a waste.

Our raid leader was cool, he never abused his position and he was more informed about classes and mechanics. He knew that the GM was worthless and our tank a lootwhore jerk but he had a lot on his plate and didnt want to get involved with drama (or spend weeks recruiting another tank) so he stayed away from all this. Afterall, we killed bosses and that was enough for him.


So that brings me to the main topic.
In a 40 man raid with loot been scarce how are you guys going to prioritise gear?
Are you going to follow dkp system or loot council?

I havent played in any private servers, always stayed in retail in competitive PVE (top 5 guild race in server since TBC) and with 20-25 man raids its easier to manage loot.
I stopped in mythic Jaina progression about a month ago because or real life issues and now I m planning to return in classic since I m already 41 years old with familly and I cant follow the hardcore grind/race anymore, only to be a god for 3 months and then start all over again because new patch is making old gear irrelevant.

What are your thoughts about the best loot distribution system in vanilla 40 man raids?
I know gearing tanks is crucial in vanilla but what is the golden line? We are planning to have a bear tank for early MC because druids have almost half of their bis gear available early on (weapon, trinkets, fire resistance gear, high stamina) so that we can gear our warriors faster.
We havent decided what system to use though...DKP or something different.
Any feedback?

Thanks in advance!

[Gaidax]

No.1 is Guild Master's GF, then Main Diva Tank, then GM and Officers, then the rest of the pleb scum tagging along.

[cuafpr]

back then for my guild it was tank > healer > dps for loot. but if you pulled the "tank" card to get the gear you lost the DKP For it, tanks ran in -DKP a lot and it had to be a tank item no "threat" set.

[PavelGolub]

Loot Council is a good system for a progressive guild that is planing to push, the only issue is when it becomes friends before others.
DKP is a difficult system because people can bid against your tank and without a good tank you are not progressing.

Personally in Vanila i use to play in a guild which had DKP with priority for BiS items that go to main healers and tank.
Any new member that joined wasn't allowed to bid DKP for the first 2 raids but accumulated the points to pass the trial period and that was the system.
We were not hardcore did BWL/AQ20/ONY and 2 bosses in AQ40, but this system did work well for a guild that took it pretty easy.

[justandulas]

Loot council is best. Typically, the Mt will get tank gear priority but the idea of the tank demanding dps gear too is hella greedy

[Piesor]

I would also prefer loot council. There are just way too many possibilities to exploit the DKP system.
Getting loot is more reliant on your class than on the loot system itself imo. As one of many OP Warriors you'll see less items filling your backpacks than the underdog classes like Druids.

[Altariaz]

Loot Council is a good system for a progressive guild that is planing to push, the only issue is when it becomes friends before others.
DKP is a difficult system because people can bid against your tank and without a good tank you are not progressing.

Personally in Vanila i use to play in a guild which had DKP with priority for BiS items that go to main healers and tank.
Any new member that joined wasn't allowed to bid DKP for the first 2 raids but accumulated the points to pass the trial period and that was the system.
We were not hardcore did BWL/AQ20/ONY and 2 bosses in AQ40, but this system did work well for a guild that took it pretty easy.

Back in Vanilla, both guilds I raided in used a DKP system (cleared all Vanilla raids, up to Naxx in which we got 9/12). DKP is alright, but not without deficiencies (for example, players DKP whoring for a rare drop, skimping on other upgrades that they should take). Loot Council is a good system too, but you need morally decent, skilled and well-informed players in charge of who gets what (trust is a big factor here: I've seen skilled but greedy players claim that they will be indefinitely around to raid to gain the Loot Council's favor, only to quit when they get they drop that they want).

[Coldfrostzero]

Suicide Kings is a good loot system to prevent loot whoring (to an extent). It does allow people to take gear for offspecs over main though, but so does DKP (unless you do the modified DKP where you can only add X amount of DKP to a non main spec roll). Suicide Kings can also be a lot quicker for loot distribution and instead of having DKP decay, you can set a rule that says "miss X days without excuse and you're dropped to the bottom of the list."

Its nearly completely drama free compared to Loot Councils which always devolve into favoritism, and it makes people think about their loot decisions.

[AeneasBK]

Your Main tank SHOULD get the first DFT that drops.

Still, he sounds like an asshole; that doesn't change the fact that all things being equal, your MT should be getting priority on some of the best DPS items out of MC and BWL to assist in threat and get the bosses killed much faster, Drakefang Talisman and Band of Accuria being two important ones that will make the fury/rogues/hunters salty.

[sunwrathmother]

I was thinking a google sheet with drops, bis lists and a council priority before each raid. It is a lot of work but with class officers it might be easier.
However I m not sure everyone will be happy with this. Some people will wonder why they are so low on the list especially for items like accuria and DFT. Some others will have no interest to come to the raid if they know they wont have a chance for a drop they want.
A new menber will have issues when he starts at the bottom and an old raider will have issues when a newcomer that is more skilled moves above him in the priority ladder after proving his worth.

[AeneasBK]

I was thinking a google sheet with drops, bis lists and a council priority before each raid. It is a lot of work but with class officers it might be easier.

Quoting myself from the thread about 10 down from this one...

The drops are all known ten times over.

The best loot distribution system is a google doc accessable by every guildy clearly showing who has the next "X item" the next 3 times it drops (assuming it is possible for 2x an item to drop at a time). This priority is determined by the loot council and everyone knows what is what and with any luck "why" as well. The page should be updated after every raid by the loot council to reflect the changes, and any time there is a roster change. This way the raid can continue to clear trash while the Master looter quickly checks the page and distributes, and no time is wasted debating who should have got what during the raid itself as there is the other 180+ hours of the week in which to have that discussion.

EG. Band of Accuria - Prio order Jimbob (Main Tank), Billie Ray (Rogue), Carlton (Fury Warrior).

Then when Rag is killed and 2 drop no one is asking "Ooooh, who gets them?" It's just "Grats Jimbob and Bille Ray, GG WP" and you move on.

[Altariaz]

Suicide Kings is a good loot system to prevent loot whoring (to an extent). It does allow people to take gear for offspecs over main though, but so does DKP (unless you do the modified DKP where you can only add X amount of DKP to a non main spec roll). Suicide Kings can also be a lot quicker for loot distribution and instead of having DKP decay, you can set a rule that says "miss X days without excuse and you're dropped to the bottom of the list."

Its nearly completely drama free compared to Loot Councils which always devolve into favoritism, and it makes people think about their loot decisions.

DKP can produce drama, that is for sure: Players deliberately trying to bid up others to try to get them to spend their DKP, or players forming cliques with an agreement not to bid against each other on certain drops so that they can burn their DKP on something they are after, and so on. Of course, if a Loot Council descends into personal favoritism or gives items to players in a relatively clueless way, that's bad. Which system produces relatively less drama? It depends on how the system is administered and policed. Both DKP and Loot Council can work well and both can work badly.
It's the loot that generates the drama!

[Gavll]

Personally I like DKP. Loot council is great n all but if you get corrupt officers (which you always do) there's gonna be drama. I got passed over for Nef's Tear in my guild so many times despite being promised it by the CL 3 times. In the end I gquit after they gave it to yet another mage who underperformed vs me.

I came back after the GM talked to me and promised me the next one, since I trusted him. First raid back was BWL. It dropped, I got it immediately. Some people still complained. lol

[willemh]

Whatever people think is fair is completely based on their attitude towards the game and personality. Some people look at loot short term, for them a rolling system is the best. Others look long term, for them a DKP/loot council system is best.

Personally I like an open loot council system as discussed above with an transparent spreadsheet and mature discussion outside the raid and instant looting during the raid.

In the end if you can't trust your guildies, officers and guildmaster to do the right thing you're in the wrong guild to begin with. I certainly grew quite a few years older since vanilla and I really won't go into these childish discussions. They're pointless and completely unnecessary with just a slight bit of common sense.

[anon5123]

Back in the day, our main tank had prio to all the loot he wished. I remember his arrogant ass getting not only tank gear, but also any dps item he felt fancy about, for his dps/threat set ( even the first drake fang talisman that dropped for our guild ) ignoring all the other raiders. He was not affected by the DKP system we all had to endure because he was "the main tank".

Like we owed him the gear that dropped, like he was carrying us all.

....Because the main tank IS "carrying you all". Your main tank is the most important person to gear in the entire raid. Better gear on the MT means better threat, which means your DPS can go full ham and not worry about pulling aggro. It all means less chance of him dying and the raid wiping on untauntable bosses.

Sounds like you're pretty selfish with purples if you whine and moan about the main tank getting loot first.

[Twdft]

DKP can produce drama, that is for sure: Players deliberately trying to bid up others to try to get them to spend their DKP, or players forming cliques with an agreement not to bid against each other on certain drops so that they can burn their DKP on something they are after, and so on.

My guild used dkp but with set prices for every item, so no bidding wars. You either had the most points of all player who wanted the item or you didn't. I thought that was quite nice, we had "class cliques" of course, within my class we talked about set items who wants to get 5 piece bonus or whatever and most of the time just agreed whose turn it was. But since everyone paid the same for their T2 helmet or whatever that's fine.

It was only later that I learned our cloth classes were fighting over a tenth of a dkp point, bitching endlessly behind the back to the raid leader how one guy was always late and another never used food so they didn't really deserve that offset piece even if they had the most dkp. I am so happy I didn't see that drama when it was happening.

On topic: run the raids twice with 10 mains and 10 alts each, feeding mains. Once you get to Naxx and actually need more than 20 people you'll be tight knit enough to have no problems with loot distribution.

[hulkgor]

Personally I like DKP. Loot council is great n all but if you get corrupt officers (which you always do) there's gonna be drama. I got passed over for Nef's Tear in my guild so many times despite being promised it by the CL 3 times. In the end I gquit after they gave it to yet another mage who underperformed vs me.

I came back after the GM talked to me and promised me the next one, since I trusted him. First raid back was BWL. It dropped, I got it immediately. Some people still complained. lol

People are right to complain if you actually left the guild, and only returned because you were promised an item. That's just absurd if you ask me, regardless of how poorly or not loot was distributed.

That's just allowing drama and ragequits to be rewarded and a sure-fire way to have issues with a guild.

[Oftenwrongsoong]

Any guild not using set price DKP is one boss kill away from disbanding due to drama about loot.

Join a guild using set price DKP.
Show up to every raid.
Earn your DKP.
Whisper master looter for an upgrade that drops.
Win items when you have the highest DKP.

[Kersey]

use EP/GP

http://www.epgpweb.com/help/system

Hopefully RCLootmaster will have a Classic version.

[EnclosedOne]

suicide kings is the best loot system I've used in Wow