1. #20901
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    So your argument is that politicians always make sane or logical decisions?
    "So what you're saying is" *fart noises*

    Respond to people's actual words.
    /s

  2. #20902
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Did I say that?

    My position is that there are both sane and logical reasons for not initiating Articles. I happen to fall right in the middle of this discussion, unfortunately, and can see solid arguments for both sides. I can understand the position that initiating Articles is the morally right thing to do. But I can also see the flip side, where initiating Articles might damage the DNC and cost them the 2020 Presidential election.
    Yeah you kinda did.

    Also, there is no evidence that it'll hurt the DNC. There is now evidence not doing it might hurt the DNC however.

  3. #20903
    The Undying
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Yeah you kinda did.
    No, I kinda didn't.


    Also, there is no evidence that it'll hurt the DNC.
    Yes, there is. In fact, it's from the last Articles that were voted upon.


    There is now evidence not doing it might hurt the DNC however.
    Show us.

  4. #20904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Not even remotely. You're making a leap in logic in assuming that one situation is indicative of every situation. Which isn't surprising looking at your recent posts.
    I'm kinda getting that feeling too. I really miss having actual debates with people on this forum, we seem to be left with bad faith and shit posters, or people who just can't admit being wrong and moving on. Watch, the next 15 posts from him will be about how "[I] kinda did".

  5. #20905
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    No, I kinda didn't.




    Yes, there is. In fact, it's from the last Articles that were voted upon.




    Show us.
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...rce=reddit.com

    More american's are for impeachment than against right now, and that is rising.

  6. #20906
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The last articles didn't really show much of a difference to the GOP. Hell, they even won the next Presidential election and saw barely a blip in Congress.
    But the Impeachment process was began before the 1998 midterms, and it's widely believed (I'll have to find links) that initiating that inquiry riled up the DNC and caused the loss of seats suffered by the GOP that year. Let me find the links though, they explain it better than I am now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...rce=reddit.com

    More american's are for impeachment than against right now, and that is rising.
    Interesting (good source btw, thank you for that). And here is where I run into problems. I agree that morally it's the right thing to do. But we also have a greater duty to get the criminal Trump out of the White House - that is a de facto priority for all thinking Americans. If Impeaching him now, which won't lead to his ouster early, doesn't work or causes Trump to win more votes and retain the White House, we can't risk it.

    What we can do is continue with the criminal inquiries and investigations, such as we are now, and see where they lead.

  7. #20907
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    But the Impeachment process was began before the 1998 midterms, and it's widely believed (I'll have to find links) that initiating that inquiry riled up the DNC and caused the loss of seats suffered by the GOP that year. Let me find the links though, they explain it better than I am now.

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    Interesting (good source btw, thank you for that). And here is where I run into problems. I agree that morally it's the right thing to do. But we also have a greater duty to get the criminal Trump out of the White House - that is a de facto priority for all thinking Americans. If Impeaching him now, which won't lead to his ouster early, doesn't work or causes Trump to win more votes and retain the White House, we can't risk it.

    What we can do is continue with the criminal inquiries and investigations, such as we are now, and see where they lead.
    Well we can open impeachment proceedings, make the inquiries and investigations move a hell of a lot smoother, and never actually lead to impeachment, remove the president and still completely fuck the RNC like we did with Nixon.

  8. #20908
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Well we can open impeachment proceedings, make the inquiries and investigations move a hell of a lot smoother, and never actually lead to impeachment, remove the president and still completely fuck the RNC like we did with Nixon.
    And see, I would be delighted with doing all of that.

  9. #20909
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The Dems gained all of 5 seats in the house. That's not statistically significant.
    Yeah, I was just looking at those numbers myself. You could make the argument that it was a midterm election, and historically (even then) the President's party usually loses seats. But even I'm not jumping up and down ready to push that argument.

  10. #20910
    Even it democrats don't start impeachment preceding , trump and republicans will still campaign on "the evil dems trying to impeach the president" so they really have little to lose in starting it to get access to more information and evidence.

  11. #20911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    Even it democrats don't start impeachment preceding , trump and republicans will still campaign on "the evil dems trying to impeach the president" so they really have little to lose in starting it to get access to more information and evidence.
    Elect Trump, or democrats will impeach him... is a very strange slogan.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
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  12. #20912
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Elect Trump, or democrats will impeach him... is a very strange slogan.
    it gets the base fired up "they want to take your president from you!" and so on. not saying its not stupid, just that the republicans WILL campaign on it regardless of what the democrats actually do, so they might as well start the process because it gets them a lot more information.

  13. #20913
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The same. I initially thought I remembered impeachment making more of a difference as well, but it hasn't really been the case. At this point it's just fear holding the Dems back. They think if they fail with impeachment it'll just give Trump ammo. Which is silly since Trump just makes shit up and doesn't really worry about facts.
    Here is a dark version... Do you think Bernie or Biden have a better chance against Trump or Pence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canpinter View Post
    it gets the base fired up "they want to take your president from you!" and so on. not saying its not stupid, just that the republicans WILL campaign on it regardless of what the democrats actually do, so they might as well start the process because it gets them a lot more information.

    I think that’s my bad. I focused on Trump doing it, but I think you mean just republicans in general. That makes sense... sorry...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  14. #20914
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    That’s the part that has me waffling the most. Give Pence 2 years as President and I could see him winning. He’s pretty awful though and I shudder to think where we’d be in 2024.
    I think Pence would be a competent version of Trump. I think he is horribly wrong on a lot of issues, but I cannot call him a moron. Plus, if you think about the current political climate of it being two extremes between Trump and crazy socialist. Pence would fall closest to center. I heart conspiracy theories, I’d read one that focused on democrats sandbagging impeachment, because Pence is like Trump, but without the idiocy. Like... Pence would read security briefings... I mean... Pence would read!
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  15. #20915
    Herald of the Titans D Luniz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Elect Trump, or democrats will impeach him... is a very strange slogan.
    eh, remember they did that in 2018
    even with Pelosi (wait it this a time loop? cats aren't younger, cut from work still there, nm) saying “This election cannot be about impeachment. I don’t think it’s in the interest of America’s working families to focus on that, unless we have more to go on, which we don’t at this time,”

  16. #20916
    Quote Originally Posted by Butter Emails View Post
    In the interest of not giving Trump a second term, that's where.

    If America were made up entirely of people like you and me, impeachment would be a slam dunk.

    That's the problem, I have no faith in the Senate to impeach, and I have no faith in the American people to see this as lawless behavior rather than an exoneration.

    The Dems are already set to have great wins in 2020, impeachment is a mid-court shot. If they land it, it's amazing. If not, the other team gets the ball.
    Again, the senate does not need to vote to convict for this to be a bad thing for trump. Making the evidence public is bad for trump, or he wouldn't be stonewalling. Being able to say, "Look at the evidence, and their unwillingness to follow the law," is a big loss for every GOP senator who votes against it. People didn't care about clinton's obstruction because of the subject matter starr was investigating. No one gave a shit about infidelity. People care about betraying our country to russia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  17. #20917
    Quote Originally Posted by rda View Post
    The dems pretending that they want full access to the report and are denied it? Yes, that's theater, an insincere pose.

    Or what do you mean?
    When you have the clearance to see the whole thing but can't isn't theater. That would be like me having VIP tickets to a concert and only being allowed to see the drinking fountain.

    Seriously, try less, 'cause with each post you sure are trying to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    You do realise that there was just hundreds of former Federal prosecutors coming out to say that the report gave clear examples where Trump was implicated by the report to the extent that he would already be facing charges if he weren't President?
    Add a former Supreme Court justice that thinks Trump is abusing powers with ignoring subpoenas too. Must be just "another opinion" - @rda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bagelmanman View Post
    How to double triple quadruple down after the collusion hoax was destroyed.
    How to septuple down on ignorance after not reading the report.

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  18. #20918
    The real question is will the leftists still be pushing hoaxes 6 years from now... can CNN even survive that long at the current rate of layoffs...

    But let the lefties continue to cry as the rest of the country laughs.
    Last edited by bagelmanman; 2019-05-11 at 10:17 AM.

  19. #20919
    Quote Originally Posted by bagelmanman View Post
    The real question is will the leftists still be pushing hoaxes 6 years from now... can CNN even survive that long at the current rate of layoffs...
    bagelmanman returns every page to desperately try to spin the "hoax" narrative.

  20. #20920
    Quote Originally Posted by bagelmanman View Post
    The real question is will the leftists still be pushing hoaxes 6 years from now
    Let us know when you guys stop chanting lock her up.

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