Queen Azshara vs Lich king

[darkoms]

Thing is... other entities also hold several huge armies under their sway and Azshara is one of those persons, she may not be able to raise undeads... but its stated in Well of Eternity that some demons who were under Sargeras control left him WILLINGLY to join Azshara because of her charming power.

If she holds that strength... who could argue that she might even sway the whole Lich King (which happens to currently be a mere undead with a helmet to control other undeads)?

The more i discuss with Larry, the more i think Azshara might be above Lich King (even though he seems to be closed to this option denying everything Azshara does xD).

He's just a troll, who trying to replace the British Bulldog.

Infracted.

[Terongor]

The Lich King is not weaker than Lei Shen expansion order does not determine power of the big bad. Arthas killed us all and was only defeated by a literal act of god. Kil'jaeden feared his power which is why he ordered Illidan to destroy him and he was way more powerful than Mannaroth.


Lei Shen was powerful but he struggled to defeat a wild god for days hes not that powerful.

Wow team head stated 1v1 that lei shen would be LK. You should keep up what they say. As he said it its canon until stated otherwise.

[bufferunderrun]

I don't understand why the LK has gone from a puppet created by Kil'jaden to some sort of death god on par with sargeras, has the lore been retconned? If yes then link pls if not, then azshara will win for sure, the naga don't seem to be vulnerable to the undead plague and she herself was the stronger elf mage before being boosted by Old god power so no game there.

[Eto Demerzel]

I don't understand why the LK has gone from a puppet created by Kil'jaden to some sort of death god on par with sargeras, has the lore been retconned? If yes then link pls if not, then azshara will win for sure, the naga don't seem to be vulnerable to the undead plague and she herself was the stronger elf mage before being boosted by Old god power so no game there.

Im not sure Nagas are immune to plague, i mean, Arthas (before merging with Lich King) fought Illidan, and with him was Lady Vashj and her nagas and he won... so pretty much he must had something to win against them.

[Eto Demerzel]

Numbers? Why must it be that he can convert all their units? He already had numbers.

Actually he didnt had numbers... he wasnt Lich King yet... he did only have a token force which he used to disembark in Northrend and he was saved by Anub'Arak forces, which passed through Azjol'Nerub and lost several forces dealing with the "Forgotten One" (i belive thats the english name?). He did not have unlimited undeads back then and thats the reason why must have decided a frontal atack.

[Villager720]

Here’s my scoreboard:
Lich King : built many buildings and gates in 4-6 years.
Azshara : built like 6 buildings in 10k years.

Tell me I’m wrong.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Azsharas naga Empire covers much more than Nazjatar tho. That's just the capital city.

[Zandalariprelate]

Azsharas naga Empire covers much more than Nazjatar tho. That's just the capital city.

Which we never see and if the Capital looks like shit, then the others regions wouldn't look either, Azshara is the kind of person that won't allow any subject to have more shinny/better tools or decoration than her

[Jastall]

Thing is... other entities also hold several huge armies under their sway and Azshara is one of those persons, she may not be able to raise undeads... but its stated in Well of Eternity that some demons who were under Sargeras control left him WILLINGLY to join Azshara because of her charming power.

If she holds that strength... who could argue that she might even sway the whole Lich King (which happens to currently be a mere undead with a helmet to control other undeads)?

The more i discuss with Larry, the more i think Azshara might be above Lich King (even though he seems to be closed to this option denying everything Azshara does xD).

Considering the only person she sways in the current story is fodder NPC Ashvane, I'd advance that this says more about demons and how weak-willed they are than about Azshara. And I strongly doubt Bolvar would even listen to her for a fraction of a second in the first place, Arthas is right out.

In terms of power we can't know. We know the LK is weaker than Lei Shen, but he was an already mighty Mogu who absorbed the power of Aman'thul himself. Azshara scared Mannoroth shitless, but he gets one-shot by Grom every other day so his opinion is suspect.

If we count armies the Naga don't stand much of a chance against the Scourge it seems. 1v1 Azshara's magical prowess might win out but it's impossible to be sure.

[bufferunderrun]

Im not sure Nagas are immune to plague, i mean, Arthas (before merging with Lich King) fought Illidan, and with him was Lady Vashj and her nagas and he won... so pretty much he must had something to win against them.

is that still canon after the whole illidan is the child of light and darkness story of legion? At this point honestly i don't know if we can make those comparisons without taking into account how blizzard bend and twist it's characters to fit the story completely disregarding past event.

I mean Malfurion was considered one of the most powerful mortal on azeroth and blizzard has him almost die to a random axe hit in teldrassil, they boosted sylvanas with not apparent reason, nerfed thrall with a poor excuse and so on; it's really hard to imagine Azshara losing to arthas unless he is boosted by some death god that randomly pop out (someone on the level of void lord not the stupid bromwswadi)

[Eto Demerzel]

is that still canon after the whole illidan is the child of light and darkness story of legion? At this point honestly i don't know if we can make those comparisons without taking into account how blizzard bend and twist it's characters to fit the story completely disregarding past event.

I mean Malfurion was considered one of the most powerful mortal on azeroth and blizzard has him almost die to a random axe hit in teldrassil, they boosted sylvanas with not apparent reason, nerfed thrall with a poor excuse and so on; it's really hard to imagine Azshara losing to arthas unless he is boosted by some death god that randomly pop out (someone on the level of void lord not the stupid bromwswadi)

To be fair... im not sure if they have retconned the wc3 fight in Icecrown :/...

Considering the only person she sways in the current story is fodder NPC Ashvane, I'd advance that this says more about demons and how weak-willed they are than about Azshara. And I strongly doubt Bolvar would even listen to her for a fraction of a second in the first place, Arthas is right out.

In terms of power we can't know. We know the LK is weaker than Lei Shen, but he was an already mighty Mogu who absorbed the power of Aman'thul himself. Azshara scared Mannoroth shitless, but he gets one-shot by Grom every other day so his opinion is suspect.

If we count armies the Naga don't stand much of a chance against the Scourge it seems. 1v1 Azshara's magical prowess might win out but it's impossible to be sure.

Well current story doesnt meassure all her power at all... i mean, she was the Night Elf Queen undisputed and made every single elf fall before her. They even replaced their goddess (Elune) for her... add it to the fact that she became a demi-god and that says a lot about her... on the other hand, Lich King required FIVE years to choose between Ner'zhul (an Orc powerful, yet broken Shaman) and Arthas (a broken Paladin) and his decision was to merge both conciousness... so if Azshara made her will fight for the Lich King "mind"... im not sure the Lich King would reject her that easily.

On the Mannoroth topic it has several explanations... in WoD Gorehowl was heavily retconned to be extremely empowered, they said that Gorehowl holds the hearts of six legendary gronns so it is an extraordinarily-absurd strong weapon which can destroy mighty creatures easily. Before that... in WC3 when Grom kills Mannoroth and Cenarius it is mostly because he had drink Mannoroth blood and had become fel.

And about armies... there are naga tribes literally EVERYWHERE, they are one of the factions (alongside the trolls and undeads) which can pretty much appear ANYWHERE and can potentially be almost endless. If they fought with their brain, they would only fight on water terrains which would be better "ground" for them than for undeads so i wouldnt say undead armies are greatly above nagas (id say 60-40 in favor of the scourge, but terrain advantages can change it).

[TheFirstOnes]

The Lich King: Thought he could destroy the Legion by himself with enough prep time. Strong enough to destroy the heroes with ease back in Wrath, and is basically immune to mortal attacks other than the plague.

Queen Azshara: Base power was surpassed by Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Sargeras alone, serves under N'zoth and gained a MASSIVE power boost because of it, capable or raising and drowning entire lands and cities, and has the power to surpass even Sargeras (Thanks to the Void, the Pillars of Creation, as well as Azeroth's Titan within N'zoth's grasp). Oh, and she's also magically badass, smart, and can likely turn the Lich King into a teacup with just a snap from her fingers.

Azshara easily solos.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Let's break it down between 1v1 and army wise.

The Lich King's army is leagues above Azshara's underwater army even with faceless assistance.

The core of the Scourge took up a whole expansion with many zones involving it and you can still feel his presence even in zones without the scourge. Azshara's core army takes up a single patch. Azshara has sent many scouting parties around Azeroth since vanilla but so did the Lich King's forces. And the LK's army actually did more much more as a big world event effecting all major cities with the plague and necropolis invading.

1v1 Lich King dominates Azshara without effort or with some effort, I'll say 20% of his powers to deal with her at most. He wipes out the raid of heroes without effort. Now let's see what happens during the Azshara raid fight. She will go down with the help of just Jaina. Out raid beats her and that's it. That's just empowered Gul'dan level and im questioning if it's even at Archimonde and Kil'jaeden's level but we'll see. And this isn't DBZ power level where u can just completely resist weaker attacks. I'm sure our characters gotten stronger and a bit wiser but that doesn't mean we can now suddenly tank LK's attacks unless u counting gameplay which isn't lore.

N'zoth > Argus > Lk

[Houle]

The Lich King: Thought he could destroy the Legion by himself with enough prep time. Strong enough to destroy the heroes with ease back in Wrath, and is basically immune to mortal attacks other than the plague.

Queen Azshara: Base power was surpassed by Archimonde, Kil'jaeden, and Sargeras alone, serves under N'zoth and gained a MASSIVE power boost because of it, capable or raising and drowning entire lands and cities, and has the power to surpass even Sargeras (Thanks to the Void, the Pillars of Creation, as well as Azeroth's Titan within N'zoth's grasp). Oh, and she's also magically badass, smart, and can likely turn the Lich King into a teacup with just a snap from her fingers.

Azshara easily solos.

You do realize that Azsharah actually got weaker after the WotA, since most of her power came from the well and her constantly drinking from it/experimenting with it. You see what Azerite can do, no imagine her boosting herself up for a few thousands years with that type of stuff. The N'zoth boost can't compensate that loss after the well collapsed. Plus, where exactly was it said that she suddenly has the power to raise/sink entire land masses? Source or i call headcanon. And Sargeras would effortlessly stomp her out, even with all Pillars of creation, the well of eternity and N'zoths boost at once. They are not comparable, sorry.
Not saying the Lk would win in a straight up 1on1 fight, but you heavily over-rate Azshara.

[darkoms]

You do realize that Azsharah actually got weaker after the WotA, since most of her power came from the well and her constantly drinking from it/experimenting with it. You see what Azerite can do, no imagine her boosting herself up for a few thousands years with that type of stuff. The N'zoth boost can't compensate that loss after the well collapsed. Plus, where exactly was it said that she suddenly has the power to raise/sink entire land masses? Source or i call headcanon. And Sargeras would effortlessly stomp her out, even with all Pillars of creation, the well of eternity and N'zoths boost at once. They are not comparable, sorry.
Not saying the Lk would win in a straight up 1on1 fight, but you heavily over-rate Azshara.

I like this stupid argument about the loss of power after the Well of Eternity. Let me ask you one question.
At what time was Xavius stronger — with the Well of Eternity or with the power of N'zot?

[Houle]

I like this stupid argument about the loss of power after the Well of Eternity. Let me ask you one question.
At what time was Xavius stronger — with the Well of Eternity or with the power of N'zot?

I like you comparing Xavius with fucking Azshara. One was an advisor, the other the queen who literally used all her time to power herself up with the well. Yeah, stupid comparison

[darkoms]

I like you comparing Xavius with fucking Azshara. One was an advisor, the other the queen who literally used all her time to power herself up with the well. Yeah, stupid comparison

That is, Xavius did not spend time at the well? Did not use it?
Again. Xavius perfectly shows that the gift of the Old God surpasses the power of the Well.

[Houle]

That is, Xavius did not spend time at the well? Did not use it?
Again. Xavius perfectly shows that the gift of the Old God surpasses the power of the Well.

Again, he didn't power himself up with it like Azshara did, not even close. Literally all she did in her later years was using the well to power herself up. Xavius did no such thing, to our knowledge. And Xavius received a buff from both Sargeras and N'zoth, so that argument is pointless anyway. Ofc a buff from Sargeras himself combined with one from N'zoth will make him powerful af.

[darkoms]

Again, he didn't power himself up with it like Azshara did, not even close. Literally all she did in her later years was using the well to power herself up. Xavius did no such thing, to our knowledge. And Xavius received a buff from both Sargeras and N'zoth, so that argument is pointless anyway. Ofc a buff from Sargeras himself combined with one from N'zoth will make him powerful af.

What nonsense. All the Highborne spent a lot of time at the Well, Azshara just did it more than the others, it does not mean that Xavius was some kind of nonentity without magical power.
My God, what does Sargeras have to do with it? You say that Azshara became weaker after losing the Well, I say that N'zot could have made her even stronger, and the situation with Xavius proves it

[TheFirstOnes]

You do realize that Azsharah actually got weaker after the WotA, since most of her power came from the well and her constantly drinking from it/experimenting with it. You see what Azerite can do, no imagine her boosting herself up for a few thousands years with that type of stuff. The N'zoth boost can't compensate that loss after the well collapsed. Plus, where exactly was it said that she suddenly has the power to raise/sink entire land masses? Source or i call headcanon. And Sargeras would effortlessly stomp her out, even with all Pillars of creation, the well of eternity and N'zoths boost at once. They are not comparable, sorry.
Not saying the Lk would win in a straight up 1on1 fight, but you heavily over-rate Azshara.

Except she never got weaker. Hell, it's clearly stated that she's stronger now than she ever was way back in her "prime".