[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Dracullus]

Aww. Father daughter bonding experience. :3

Yeah, right now he sits in dragon heaven and smile to her from above. ;D

(like Mufasa to Simba)

[Donimic]

For all the people saying that in times of war leveling cities in fire and massacring civilians isn't commonplace you obviously never paid attention in your history classes. Absolute obliteration of civilians happens in every war since forever (e.g. Hiroshima and Nagasaki) and happens whether commanders are mad or not independent of if the city already "surrendered". With that being said, this is a story and they have defiantly been foreshadowing her to have been the true "final boss" rather than the Night King or Cersi. The show is definitely being rushed and destroying the story arc int he process, but its not like it has been out of nowhere.

[Dracullus]

For all the people saying that in times of war leveling cities in fire and massacring civilians isn't commonplace you obviously never paid attention in your history classes. Absolute obliteration of civilians happens in every war since forever (e.g. Hiroshima and Nagasaki) and happens whether commanders are mad or not independent of if the city already "surrendered". With that being said, this is a story and they have defiantly been foreshadowing her to have been the true "final boss" rather than the Night King or Cersi. The show is definitely being rushed and destroying the story arc int he process, but its not like it has been out of nowhere.

Exactly. But it's very sad that books didn't came before show. After last book they could see story as whole and edit it to show format in better way (like S1-S4).

Now we kinda now how it roughly end. But journey matters more than destination I guess. Next week, I'll start reading everything second time, I didn't want to mix facts from books and show after season 2.

[Tekkommo]

So the vision Bran had of a dragon flying over KL a few seasons ago, was more or less confirmed to be Drogon, as we had a similar shot.

So this confirms Bran can also see the future? If he knew what was going to happen, why didn't he tell anyone? Because he knew he'd end up king? Why would he even want to be king, or accept it?

[Donald Hellscream]

While somewhat disappointing, it was still cathartic to see people being slaughtered for a good 40 minutes.

[Independent voter]

Anyone else have a problem with the dragon fire? It was like it had a mass like it was spraying with lava instead of fire. You can't knock down a build with fire. You can burn it down but fire itself has no weight.

And if dragon fire does have mass, that means Drogon would've gotten a lot lighter as the battle went on.

It's a small gripe but it was something I couldn't help but notice.

I think for a lot of us that's the problem with the show, you're always thinking about the inconsistencies and not what is going on.

[Paarthurnax]

I get that in a strictly book sense GRRM probably had always planned on Danny having to make piece with her Fire and Blood side of herself and how as a character she would go from environment where punishing obviously bad people and saving good people was straight forward and easy (Essos) to an environment where there were no real slaves to save or people to liberate since replacing one king with another doesn't really matter to the common folk so long as they aren't burning them alive or killing them for sport. So Danny ends up having to become what she hates to achieve her goals, sort of a poetic arc if done right, but the problem is when D&D knew about this arc but still chose to cut both screen time and seasons down heavily they neutered their ability to effectively tell that story.

What we have as a result is a rushed mess where character arcs and motivations don't make any sense and nothing feel earned or organic and it's literally impossible to take the leap the show wants us to take as viewers regarding Danny going from protect the innocent to burn them all in 3 episodes. We needed another season exploring Danny's shift towards a more brutal side for it to be something we can swallow. Danny has now killed more innocent people in one episode then Cersci has in all 8 seasons combined, she is now the biggest baddie on the show short of the Knight King himself. She has to die and it's not going to be a satisfying end to anyone.

This same deal goes for Jamie, S1E1 he tosses Bran out of a window and it was subtle foreshadowing to S8E5 where they would take 8 seasons of Jaime's character progression and also throw it out the window. SMH.

[LoLcano]

Anyone else have a problem with the dragon fire? It was like it had a mass like it was spraying with lava instead of fire. You can't knock down a build with fire. You can burn it down but fire itself has no weight.

And if dragon fire does have mass, that means Drogon would've gotten a lot lighter as the battle went on.

It's a small gripe but it was something I couldn't help but notice.

Yeah it bothered me too , it felt like Drogon had missle in him instead of just fire , the way everything EXPLODED by just fire was so unreal, 1 fire breath and pillars and gate literally Exploded , well Thats not how fire works .

Stones don't just explode from fire alone .

[Donald Hellscream]

Anyone else have a problem with the dragon fire? It was like it had a mass like it was spraying with lava instead of fire. You can't knock down a build with fire. You can burn it down but fire itself has no weight.

And if dragon fire does have mass, that means Drogon would've gotten a lot lighter as the battle went on.

It's a small gripe but it was something I couldn't help but notice.

I think for a lot of us that's the problem with the show, you're always thinking about the inconsistencies and not what is going on.

I guess you could pretend the pressure was strong enough to blow apart structures, I am no expert on dragon anatomy but I'd imagine there would be quite a bit of pressure aswell.

[Tekkommo]

Because it is not Bran anymore. It is the Three Eyed Raven a.k.a Bloodraven, a Targaryan bastard.

I don't really buy that for the show, unless something is explained next episode.

[crono14]

It was hidden all over the city by Mad King's alchemists 30 years ago. Cersei found only part of this under Baelor.

So in fact, Dany burned city together with her father.



It was too exaggerated, but remember few facts.

1) Rhaegal was smaller dragon that spend few years (?) chained under pyramid.
2) He was wounded in Winterfell, they even show he had problems with taking off.
3) If was his first experience with scorpions (and dragons are intelligent beasts as Tyrion said in s6).
4) Drogon were bigger and already fought scorpions twice by episode 5, he get better with dodging this shit.
5) Dany used Sun to "cover" her tracks.

They also caught Rhaegal by surprise, no one was riding him and the shots were unexpected. He wasn't trying to dodge or anything. It's still stupid nonetheless that the shots event hit, but that is my take.

Drogon was quite literally just flying all over the place and also so close to the ships this time they could not turn those things quick enough nor reload them quick enough to even get decent shots off. The previous episode Drogon was vulnerable and further away and the plot demanded Euron survive that little skirmish.

Also another thing, Drogon is still a baby. Dragons live something like 300-400 years old. He will get probably double that size if he lives long enough and his scales will probably also double in durability. Book dragons are written as literally impervious to almost anything projectile wise. Drogon is like maybe 8-10 years old and very much a baby.

[Zaktar]

The best thing about how this series is ending is that it should offer plenty of motivation to Martin to finish his books.

[Mehrunes]

Yeah it bothered me too , it felt like Drogon had missle in him instead of just fire , the way everything EXPLODED by just fire was so unreal, 1 fire breath and pillars and gate literally Exploded , well Thats not how fire works .

Stones don't just explode from fire alone .

Either that or King's Landing's buildings are constructed from grains of sand carefully put on top of one another with nothing to bind them.

[Dracullus]

The best thing about how this series is ending is that it should offer plenty of motivation to Martin to finish his books.

I don't see how it would change things. I think he either already finished book 6 (and wait for show to end to not confure people with two separate stories) or he went too deep into procrastinationland.

[Sarethion]

The North's last experience with a Targaryen was one of them burning their liege lord and his heir in the Great Hall in front of the whole kingdom. It was why the North fought in Robert's Rebellion. Forgiveness takes time, yanno.

Jon almost lost to Boltons and was saved by Sansa bringing the Vale. That's all he ever did for the North and yet suddenly everyone and their mother went from "he's just Ned Stark bastard" to "oh, he's a true Stark and the King in the North"... And Danny comes in and plays a vital part in saving the North from the dead and yet the northerners' opinion about her doesn't really seem to change. Or at least that's not shown in the show.

I'm not saying they should love Danny or anything, but I think she did enough to deserve that at least a couple of lords openly acknowledged she might not be as bad as they've originally thought.

- - - Updated - - -

Either that or King's Landing's buildings are constructed from grains of sand carefully put on top of one another with nothing to bind them.

Well, if Sindr... Viseryon had enough juice to blast through the Wall, I guess that Drogon blowing up a gate in King's Landing isn't that much of stretch.

[xuros]

I'm glad I'm an easily-pleased, simple man. I think the show is great. I don't have the refined tastes for all this "character development" or "quality writing".

Same here. I thought it was pretty good. I read a lot of this thread from the past few days and people want to bring their personal beliefs into the show/book and become instantly jaded when it defies it.

[Jastall]

Did you miss the part where her advisors conspired against her one even died the other failed so many times and even freed her prisoner . So why would she listen to traitors? Also she said to Jon that she isn't loved so she chooses to be feared. Burning the capital to the ground pretty much does that.

People made up their minds about characters or prefer them and the moment they do something else it's bad writing. It happens in most tv shows where "it doesn't go my way it's bad" . Everything has been hinting at this too. She's been pretty cold to eager to kill before the war started ( sam's family for example) .

Which, again, is justification enough for a change of approach and a character shift. Had she decided to say "fuck this" and burn the Red Keep in response, I'd have been totally fine with it.

It is not justification enough to murder half a million people because she's upset. There's such a thing as measured responses that respect a character's arc, rather than a shocking swerve from anti-hero to being villain batted harder than fucking Garrosh.

[xuros]

They also caught Rhaegal by surprise, no one was riding him and the shots were unexpected. He wasn't trying to dodge or anything. It's still stupid nonetheless that the shots event hit, but that is my take.

Drogon was quite literally just flying all over the place and also so close to the ships this time they could not turn those things quick enough nor reload them quick enough to even get decent shots off. The previous episode Drogon was vulnerable and further away and the plot demanded Euron survive that little skirmish.

Also another thing, Drogon is still a baby. Dragons live something like 300-400 years old. He will get probably double that size if he lives long enough and his scales will probably also double in durability. Book dragons are written as literally impervious to almost anything projectile wise. Drogon is like maybe 8-10 years old and very much a baby.

I just found it odd that the castle scorpians didnt seem to be able to swivel/turn at all.

[uopayroll]

Glad I wasn't the only one who had a problem with this. Drogon even landed on some battlements and it didn't even break under his weight but the fire can literally obliterate any structure it touches.

What do you think happens to porous materiel full of small air pockets get super-heated that quickly? The air expands faster than the surrounding material and explodes in all directions. Walls are made to hold vertical weight

[Zaktar]

I don't see how it would change things. I think he either already finished book 6 (and wait for show to end to not confure people with two separate stories) or he went too deep into procrastinationland.

The "already finished" theory floating around is hard to buy. If the books were finished this would haven't ended exactly like that maze picture someone posted above. I think he knew where things were going, shared it with the creators, and that actor is confused.

Someone invested enough into their work to carefully spot and break as many expectations as he has seems like they care about quality. Is this how he wants his work to be remembered? We'll see of course, who really knows.