Nazjatar Gear - A casual player dream?

[Tic Tacs]

I don't think they need to lower the gear at all, currency systems like this work wonders to fill in bad RNG, I just feel it needs a cap and to not be account wide, much like Valor back in the day.

except benthic vendor gear is not a currency system where you get what you are spending for, stats on the gear are random so bad RNG is present here too, same catch up mechanism different expansion, this is nothing new.

[Big Thanks]

except benthic vendor gear is not a currency system where you get what you are spending for, stats on the gear are random so bad RNG is present here too, same catch up mechanism different expansion, this is nothing new.

the stats are not random. they are always the same

[Onikaroshi]

except benthic vendor gear is not a currency system where you get what you are spending for, stats on the gear are random so bad RNG is present here too, same catch up mechanism different expansion, this is nothing new.

"Benthic gear have predetermined stats, meaning there is no RNG to which stats you will get on each slot."

the only reason that it is a "creates" item is so they don't have put an item for each armor type of the vendor, it's just cleaner.

[arkanon]

except benthic vendor gear is not a currency system where you get what you are spending for, stats on the gear are random so bad RNG is present here too, same catch up mechanism different expansion, this is nothing new.

No, its not, you are completely wrong. Stats are set.

[Lurker1]

Can't wait to get 430 gear on my main!love me those old school long grinds for stuff

[kamuimac]

As a reward yes, but not to roflstomp people who have no gear.

Also, they implemented a half assed system. They never really tried the complete gear normalization.

They should. The only thing that stops them is their horrible hardcore gamer bias.

thats the thing

the reality is people dont want pvp in wow

people want to rotflstomp others instead playing fair duels

[SirCowdog]

thats the thing

the reality is people dont want pvp in wow

people want to rotflstomp others instead playing fair duels

That's a sentiment I see repeated pretty often in any multiplayer RPG. People don't want fair PVP. They want to be able to basement dwell and have their 587 hours spent in the game let them smash someone who hasn't spent as much time as them. And not because the time was spent practicing and getting better as a player, but because their gear is higher level.

It's complete nonsense. PVP is player vs player. Which means that PLAYER should be the determining factor, not "my gear is better than yours so you always lose and I always win." It would be like wanting a chess match where your opponent always starts with less pieces because you've been playing chess longer. I mean...wtf, how do people think that's a good idea?

[Big Thanks]

That's a sentiment I see repeated pretty often in any multiplayer RPG. People don't want fair PVP. They want to be able to basement dwell and have their 587 hours spent in the game let them smash someone who hasn't spent as much time as them. And not because the time was spent practicing and getting better as a player, but because their gear is higher level.

It's complete nonsense. PVP is player vs player. Which means that PLAYER should be the determining factor, not "my gear is better than yours so you always lose and I always win." It would be like wanting a chess match where your opponent always starts with less pieces because you've been playing chess longer. I mean...wtf, how do people think that's a good idea?

But the game design in MMO's has always been Gear > Skill
Should we put an end to this design? Its tradition in MMO's.

I am a "fighting game" addict.
If i lose constantly in WoW because of item level or because its an unfavourable matchup...i just play Tekken for a while to clear my frustration.
(im rank Mighty Ruler in Tekken)

Do you really feel we should put an end to Gear > Skill in MMO's ?

[Unholyground]

Sounds like a strong negative tbh, not that I really care, but people are going to burn out like crazy.

Not if you get really high and then farm, most times I end up with a ton of shit and don't even remember doing it lol. Is that considered botting since I am on auto pilot? lmao.

[eduwneso]

What gold frame? Useless achievement? Mounts what can be refarmed by anyone next tier or expansio? Transmog what can again be farmed by anyone next expansion? Gear what anyone can get by doing mindless world content? What gold frame is there? I dont see anything worth my effort. Yes there should be exclusive rewards for doing higher difficulty content. Exclusivity in past came from content it self. By doing raids you get to see content and get exclusive gear which was huge drive for playres to do raiding. Than they removed see content by adding diffuculty levels ala LFR and now even they removed gear as inciative while Blizz didnt add any exclusive rewards to high end content. Why there isnt exclusive seasonal transmog rewards for finishing +15 mythic+ or mythic raid? Blizzard get rid of every single inciative to do high end content just for sake some entilted casuals can get their hands on gear what they dont need at all. Throwing at people free 430 heroic loot for sake of progressin without any challenge or effort is absolutly insane and it do not keep players longer becouse they have no emocional connetion to effort vs reward. It is hollow feelling and makes people dont care. And if people dont care they start quiting game.

Imagine League od Legends had raiting system what will allow pro players reach high rank in 1 week. Than you would have casuals what are not that good or no willing to put effort but those people could still reach high raiting just by playing longer. That game would instaly die.

You won't be seeing anyone stuck in heroic in a guild that does progress on mythic bro. What I agree with you tho, is that mythic should have something that you can't achieve after current content, they should at least start with a cutting edge for mythic. I don't aprove of a really cool mount or anything like that because it's not really fair, I'm sorry that I'm being selfish here.

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That's a sentiment I see repeated pretty often in any multiplayer RPG. People don't want fair PVP. They want to be able to basement dwell and have their 587 hours spent in the game let them smash someone who hasn't spent as much time as them. And not because the time was spent practicing and getting better as a player, but because their gear is higher level.

It's complete nonsense. PVP is player vs player. Which means that PLAYER should be the determining factor, not "my gear is better than yours so you always lose and I always win." It would be like wanting a chess match where your opponent always starts with less pieces because you've been playing chess longer. I mean...wtf, how do people think that's a good idea?

It should be something like 80-85% player and 20-15% gear. Gear would serve as an insentive to have an advantage and a progression but not completely meaningless, at the same time, with that ratio a very good player should stomp a bad one even if they have a big ilvl difference.

[Fred Skinner]

But the game design in MMO's has always been Gear > Skill

Only in the games where gamers with the best gear designed the game. It is nothing but a bias. Also, the reasons why they do it are complete bullshit. Mainly based on ideas they never proved.

"People want to be able to kill everyone only because of gear".. what a dense bullshit considering the fact only a very few have the best gear.

You do not talk about the people, but about the elite. Actually, catering PVP to ilevel is nothing but elitism.

And surely not really accessible. Everyone who plays pvp without a high ilevel is cannon fodder. Which means 80% of the players.

[Tic Tacs]

the stats are not random. they are always the same

"Benthic gear have predetermined stats, meaning there is no RNG to which stats you will get on each slot."

the only reason that it is a "creates" item is so they don't have put an item for each armor type of the vendor, it's just cleaner.

No, its not, you are completely wrong. Stats are set.

[Big Thanks]

You can PICK on the back slot stats.

Its the only slot you can PICK from a set of different ones.

i think...

[Tic Tacs]

You can PICK on the back slot stats.

Its the only slot you can PICK from a set of different ones.

i think...

What do you mean pick? I got 2 different items from the same token, pretty sure you can get different stats... this RNG by definition.

[Big Thanks]

What do you mean pick? I got 2 different items from the same token, pretty sure you can get different stats... this RNG by definition.

You cant pick the back you want?

But there are several backs with different special abilities...and i was told you could pick one of the many different and interesting backs.

I could be wrong...but thats what i was told.
You know more than i do since you are logged in PTR though :S

EDIT:
It says on frontpage this

"Benthic gear have predetermined stats, meaning there is no RNG to which stats you will get on each slot."

But i was wrong in thinking you could pick the special abilities. I THINK there is RNG there.

[FelPlague]

Plz dont destroy my dreams for 8.2...plz

Have you done the math?
So...

9x5=45

9x20=180

9x60=540

total: 765

10 per day = 76 days?

also remember people will most likely buy a few of the tokens to try and get the best stats, so yes if you want LITERALLY just 430 sure it will take 76 days, but if you want full BIS 430, then you will need alot longer.

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You cant pick the back you want?

But there are several backs with different special abilities...and i was told you could pick one of the many different and interesting backs.

I could be wrong...but thats what i was told.
You know more than i do since you are logged in PTR though :S

EDIT:
It says on frontpage this

"Benthic gear have predetermined stats, meaning there is no RNG to which stats you will get on each slot."

But i was wrong in thinking you could pick the special abilities. I THINK there is RNG there.

Your choice is "slot" not "i want this specific item"
so while yes it does remove alot of RNG it does not remove all of it, but thats fine, if the entirety of RNG was removed it would be WAAAAAY too powerful

[Big Thanks]

also remember people will most likely buy a few of the tokens to try and get the best stats, so yes if you want LITERALLY just 430 sure it will take 76 days, but if you want full BIS 430, then you will need alot longer.

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Your choice is "slot" not "i want this specific item"
so while yes it does remove alot of RNG it does not remove all of it, but thats fine, if the entirety of RNG was removed it would be WAAAAAY too powerful

But is strange because on his picture he got a back with....SPEED !?!?!
Thats RNG on stats.

It said on frontpage there wasnt any RNG on stats. Bug?

[FelPlague]

But is strange because on his picture he got a back with....SPEED !?!?!
Thats RNG on stats.

It said on frontpage there wasnt any RNG on stats. Bug?

Speed is a random added stat, the gear from the vendor can gain avoidance, leech, speed, indestructable, but i dont think they can titanforge, and i dont think they can gain a socket.
but the items i think have random stats. would need to do some more testing.

[SirCowdog]

But the game design in MMO's has always been Gear > Skill
Should we put an end to this design? Its tradition in MMO's.
)

Do you really feel we should put an end to Gear > Skill in MMO's ?

Yes on both accounts.

The fundamental flaw with "Gear > Skill" in a PVP environment is that the primary determining factor is not actually a player's skill in fighting other players. It's a player's ability in PVE, whether that's skill in farming, or raw time to progress, or in the worst cases, the ability to pay for more powerful equipment through real world currency.

In some rare cases, such as with EVE Online, the ENTIRE environment in PVE is actually PVP due to limited resources and territory to compete over. But this isn't the case in WoW due to there being unlimited resources (gold, mobs, gear, whatever).

Now, you could make the intellectually dishonest argument that a person's capacity or dedication for farming PVE is a form of competition. But that ignores the simple fact that they are still gaining victory through overcoming PVE challenges and not PVP challenges.

This is why every single instance of competitive PVP is predicated on giving each participant equal access to the same gear, stats, talents, etc.

If games are going to attempt to include PVP in their MMO design, then it either needs to have the entire game take it into consideration, or it needs to restrict it to even matchups where all parties have parity of options.

[Chillside]

But the game design in MMO's has always been Gear > Skill

Not sure about other MMO's but it was literally never the case in wow, just recent years