We got MoP 2.0, and we're still complaining

[Dastreus]

MoP had a terrible end game. BFA has a terrible end game. MoP and BFA have the same story arcs. Yep, BFA is MoP. Hated MoP. Unsubbed in 5.1 until WoD was announced. Aaaand unsubbed again in late November.

[Emerald Archer]

Cmon dude, speak for yourself. I having a blast on my mistweaver monk. BfA is failing for several reasons, not just class design.

You like MW now, more than mop MW?

Also, I get people should speak for themselves, but most specs are just flat worse now than they were then. Most specs are widely regarded as shit compared to back then.

Maybe you're enjoying your MW, that's fine, don't assume you're a majority. When given the option between specs now and back then, you'd be crazy to pic now for *almost* every spec.

[Loveliest]

But has this 2.0 thing ever worked? MoP was new - all the features were new and that's why they were fun. Challange modes were new, proving grounds were new, scenarios were new, legendary for all was new, pet battles were new, the enemies were new, the thunder isle concept was new (with scaling mobs and key scenario), the timeless isle concept was new (with rares to camp, coins to collect, rep to grind and treasures to discover all in one place). We had story patches and so on. We had a faction where you raised a dragon mount.
Btw, we also had flying when we reached max level (except on the Isles) and nobody complained it ruined their immersion.
We also had warforges and people didn't moan like the sky was falling. We also had LFR, and it didn't ruin the expansion either.
I'd also argue we still had 4-sets that kept you killing bosses more than once and 10m heroic progression (the transition to 20m Mythic killed off a lot of smaller guild groups, but I'm not sure of the overall impact, might not matter).


MoP wasn't without issues, but overall it brought a lot of new things that kept you busy. But you know - people complained about MoP, specifically Pandaren, to the moon and back; it's funny to look back and thing "what a great expansion this was" when the forums were painting it as the most "stupid" expansion at the time.

[Lochton]

Players have been asking for MoP 2.0 for years. For an expansion just like MoP to play with once again. And when Blizzard finally delivers with BFA, all we hear is constant complaining:

- Garrosh 2.0 with Sylvanas
- Scenarios 2.0 (island expeditions)
- Legendaries 2.0 with Heart of Azeroth
- Timeless Isle 2.0 with Mechagon
- Return of faction conflict
- Troll lore expanded upon
- Touches of old god content

They have even corrected some of the mistakes of MoP and that still was not good enough. Is there nothing that Blizzard can do to satisfy the playerbase?

They could make the most amazing expansion, and people would still complain.

[aceperson]

Players have been asking for MoP 2.0 for years. For an expansion just like MoP to play with once again. And when Blizzard finally delivers with BFA, all we hear is constant complaining:

- Garrosh 2.0 with Sylvanas
- Scenarios 2.0 (island expeditions)
- Legendaries 2.0 with Heart of Azeroth
- Timeless Isle 2.0 with Mechagon
- Return of faction conflict
- Troll lore expanded upon
- Touches of old god content

They have even corrected some of the mistakes of MoP and that still was not good enough. Is there nothing that Blizzard can do to satisfy the playerbase?

we want interesting, new stories. not recycled ones. so no, we didn't want garrosh 2.0. barely anyone enjoyed scenarios in mop. that's why they were relegated to being story devices which t hey excel at. so no, no one wanted scecnarios 2.0. HoA is just a poor mans trinket disguised as the new legendary replacement. we didn't want bad legendaries back. i haven't tried mechagon yet so i'll wait on that. i haven't heard one person complain about the old gods or troll lore in this expac.

the one point i'll give you is the faction conflcit.

[Tyrilion]

Players have been asking for MoP 2.0 for years. For an expansion just like MoP to play with once again. And when Blizzard finally delivers with BFA, all we hear is constant complaining:

- Garrosh 2.0 with Sylvanas
- Scenarios 2.0 (island expeditions)
- Legendaries 2.0 with Heart of Azeroth
- Timeless Isle 2.0 with Mechagon
- Return of faction conflict
- Troll lore expanded upon
- Touches of old god content

They have even corrected some of the mistakes of MoP and that still was not good enough. Is there nothing that Blizzard can do to satisfy the playerbase?

One key factor that would be missing if you were to compare the 2 is class design ...

In MoP classes were great they played well felt good and were just dammed fun

[God Save The King]

People will complain regardless. On this forum alone plenty of the people complaining are just repeating what they read and openly admit to not playing the game for the last few expansions. We're in a weird environment where a lot of people discussing the game do not actually play the game. WoW is kind of unique in that regard, I've never seen a community spring up around a game who do not play it yet will spend hours criticizing it. This isn't to say that there are not legitimate grievances with the current iteration of WoW, but most of the concerns are fairly subjective or so nitpicky that they hardly deserve mentioning. Take class design, mentioned a lot in this thread. I always play tank/healer, and I definitely prefer the modern versions of guardian/resto druids, blood dks, BM/MW monks, protection/holy paladins, and disc priests. I did play moonkin during MoP as an offspec, and vastly prefer the Legion/BFA design. But that's just my opinion. The only specs I definitely preferred the MoP version of was Survival Hunter, Combat Rogue, and Arcane mage.

It doesn't really matter what WoW does, the surrounding community of complainers but not players will persist for a while and will always make the game appear pretty horrible from the outside. The important thing is to just try it out for yourself and see what you think. If you dislike it, quit and move on like you would with any other game. In my opinion, WoW has never really been that great from a gameplay perspective. Even when it came out in 2004, it was already kind of dated given the engine and development time. The core part of WoW has been friends and guildmates and those are what tends to keep people coming back. If my guild fell apart tomorrow, I'd likely stop playing WoW for good. I see this reflected in discussions as well, most of the complainers mention the dissolution of a core social structure or the abandonment of their close friends. WoW is not a really compelling single player game, but it is a good social game with a lot of good activities to keep groups of people engaged with each other.

[letssee]

Players have been asking for MoP 2.0 for years. For an expansion just like MoP to play with once again. And when Blizzard finally delivers with BFA, all we hear is constant complaining:

- Garrosh 2.0 with Sylvanas
- Scenarios 2.0 (island expeditions)
- Legendaries 2.0 with Heart of Azeroth
- Timeless Isle 2.0 with Mechagon
- Return of faction conflict
- Troll lore expanded upon
- Touches of old god content

They have even corrected some of the mistakes of MoP and that still was not good enough. Is there nothing that Blizzard can do to satisfy the playerbase?

mop was also shit, but bfa is even more shit

[shise]

BfA is not even that bad. Is not on the peak for sure, but it is okay.

The main issue I think is the whole Azerite system, it simply feels like a forced thing for most people it seems.

Other than that it is interesting.

[dragnipur]

People want the GAMEPLAY of MoP.

Island Expeditions are not Scenarios.
Heart of Azeroth is nothing like the Legendary Cape.
Mechagon isn't out yet, little early to be judging what it is and isn't.
The faction conflict was complained about in MoP too.
Garrosh was also complained about in MoP.
Classes have been gutted rather than flavored, down to basics that no one cares for.

BfA is MoP 2.0 in all the ways people DIDN'T want it to be, and none of the ways that people enjoyed in MoP.

So basically it is exactly like MoP just in a BAD way.BFA has the MoP sistems but is made worst lol.

[Chillside]

Who the hell asked for MoP 2.0 in the first place? I personally hated the original MoP.

/fistbumpofjustice

[Osmeric]

Classes have been gutted rather than flavored, down to basics that no one cares for.

I'll argue they haven't been simplified enough.

Classes need to be such that by simply sitting down and playing, you get good enough. But classes are still too complicated for that. Addons, meters, studying, all are needed to perform adequately.

I'm afraid Blizzard's dogma of "easy to learn, hard to master" is hurting them, not helping.

[mauserr]

--- snip ---

This expansion is nowhere near MoP levels of quality.

[Niwes]

Players have been asking for MoP 2.0 for years. For an expansion just like MoP to play with once again. And when Blizzard finally delivers with BFA, all we hear is constant complaining:

- Garrosh 2.0 with Sylvanas
- Scenarios 2.0 (island expeditions)
- Legendaries 2.0 with Heart of Azeroth
- Timeless Isle 2.0 with Mechagon
- Return of faction conflict
- Troll lore expanded upon
- Touches of old god content

They have even corrected some of the mistakes of MoP and that still was not good enough. Is there nothing that Blizzard can do to satisfy the playerbase?

I would say there is a lot of truth in this.

But also the classes is a huge base problem, since everything is experienced through your class. Also the story and writing was lightyears better in MoP.

But besides that, i have to agree to OP.

I think the problem of BfA is not BfA itself, but the fact that the few failures it has are at very problematic locations.

Gear, classes and story are key points of an xpac. a shitty raid, too few dunegons or something like that, could be compensated. but when players only play 1 main since 5-10 years and this classes feeling sucks, than everything in the game feels like a problem.

[socialmaker]

Doesn't matter what other say. For me it FEELS like the worst expansion.

[Arainie]

Yeah. Classes 2.0.

Don't worry, you'd find something else to whine about if they fixed it. The only thing that's constant is the whine

[Niffo]

gr8 b8 m8 i r8 8/8

[Doffen]

You like MW now, more than mop MW?

Also, I get people should speak for themselves, but most specs are just flat worse now than they were then. Most specs are widely regarded as shit compared to back then.

Maybe you're enjoying your MW, that's fine, don't assume you're a majority. When given the option between specs now and back then, you'd be crazy to pic now for *almost* every spec.

Don't assume you are the majority either. You be wise to get that people speak for themselves, anything else is idiocracy.

But you get MoP 2.0 classes in patch 8.2 don't worry. Where everything is homogenized like it was in MoP. One extra big cd for all of us. Sure that is awesome class design right.

You got your personal opinion, let that be just that. Don't tell others a spec or all specs are shit just because you don't like it.

[oplawlz]

BfA is failing for several reasons, not just class design.

Class design is by far the biggest factor. Most people don't even read quest dialogue, they don't care about story. Gameplay is paramount.

[Emerald Archer]

Don't assume you are the majority either. You be wise to get that people speak for themselves, anything else is idiocracy.

But you get MoP 2.0 classes in patch 8.2 don't worry. Where everything is homogenized like it was in MoP. One extra big cd for all of us. Sure that is awesome class design right.

You got your personal opinion, let that be just that. Don't tell others a spec or all specs are shit just because you don't like it.

I'm very aware of what general stance is on it, and there are multiple parts of a LOT of specs that are just flat worse and the only way it's debatable, is if you actually enjoy specs being less indepth, simpler, less utility, less uniqueness, less synergy, less options.

Specs just had significantly more depth to them, more options, more utility.

But that's cool, you prefer your specs plain

For those that are vocal at least, it's clear that specs were more enjoyed back than, rather than now. But ofc there's the quiet group which maybe makes it different.

But for raiders at least, ones who are half okay, ones who actually play the specs correctly (lmfao when people who play the specs extremely wrong have input on how the spec feels to play) and are vocal, share the opinion that specs in general, feel terrible/worse now.