Loot distribution in 40 man

[Daevied]

why would you use DKP if there are already more modern and sophisticated systems to manage loot

[garicasha]

...because modern systems don't deal with the realities of classic loot? Or because it just wouldn't be classic?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-To-Deal-With

[Firebert]

So you're going against a fact because you don't agree with it? That's a bit stupid, honestly.

I do hope nobody lets you be Loot Master then. That or you'll see a lot of DPS quit because they can't get the gear they want, because you don't know what you're doing.

Leather was BiS for warriors in some specs, both pre and during Raid. So that isn't really the best ruling, and you will get a LOT of complaints.

(https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1246215761 by a poster in this very forum if you want to check)

You, sir, are wrong and it makes me really sad there are people who think the same way you do.
I wish you all the Best and hope we never meet in a raid or a dungeon

Then I am afraid your guild will be one of the shitty feeder guilds that only farms MC all the time, and has players poached to fill ranks of the big boys when they lose a player through natural attrition, before closing after a few months due to angry players and lack of progress.
May sound shitty, but if you cannot fathom that some specs might use gear that others can also use, and is actually BiS for them, then you're not to be taken seriously as a raid leader, nor a guild leader for anything beyond a "Casual Guild" or a Feeder guild I am afraid, and word *will* get out about the guild and its loot policy.

it is literally even in the list I linked for you, so not sure why you are ruling otherwise with all honesty. Heck, I am a warrior, and think it is mental, but that was stat itemisation back in Vanilla, and how it will be in Classic.

Holy moly. I seem to have touched a nerve with a few people.

Let us look at this objectively:
*Of all the classes in Classic WoW, Warriors are considered the de facto tanks (with a side-note that Paladin Tanks can be good for five-mans), and also considered the de facto prime DPS
*Of all the classes in Classic WoW, the only other melee damage dealers are Rogues, Ferals and Shamen
==>Without enforced armor class rules, Warriors can roll on twice the amount of armor loot than Rogues and Ferals, and 50% more than Shamen

This creates a positive feedback loop as below:

The fact that Warriors do more damage, increasing their damage increases raid damage more than increasing a Rogue's damage would. The plate item would still get used, probably on something like an alt/many of the other warriors lower in priority. It's always a raid gain.

I am of the opinion that such a feedback loop should be closed off.

[Coldfrostzero]

Holy moly. I seem to have touched a nerve with a few people.

Let us look at this objectively:
*Of all the classes in Classic WoW, Warriors are considered the de facto tanks (with a side-note that Paladin Tanks can be good for five-mans), and also considered the de facto prime DPS
*Of all the classes in Classic WoW, the only other melee damage dealers are Rogues, Ferals and Shamen
==>Without enforced armor class rules, Warriors can roll on twice the amount of armor loot than Rogues and Ferals, and 50% more than Shamen

This creates a positive feedback loop as below:


I am of the opinion that such a feedback loop should be closed off.

It doesn't matter if they can roll on more armor slots than another class. An upgrade is an upgrade. Warriors in BIS are some of the best if not best (execute spam) DPS in the game. You're flat out wrong to enforce an armor type on classes that need to have different pieces to succeed.

This isn't exclusive to Warriors either. Resto/Boomkin druids, Holy/Ret Paladins, Hunters and Shamans all roll for different armor types because their armor type has terrible itemization for a given role or something is just that much better. You're completely gimping your raid by forcing people to only roll on their armor type when something is clearly an upgrade. That's bad leadership.

[Chonar]

Rare photographs of the Dreaded Loot Council, found:

[Outofmana]

Yeah we used a silent auction system with DKP in the only Guild I did raids with in vanilla. We kept the DKP list public so people can see where everyone was at but you would bid on items through PM to the Raid Leader. So if you really wanted an item you could bid 1 point over the max someone else had or if you didn't really care you could bid low and still might manage to win it.

I didn't know any better at the time but there are other methods that are better nowadays but you will always deal with potential corruption with systems like these unless you keep it 100% transparent.

Doesn't work anymore, mages would make deals on mage-only items like BWL trinket, to not 'waste' DKP vs other classes. Even more so when only two people still needed an item the rest had, they'd already make deals if smart etc etc etc.

Face it any system has it's flaws, DKP wasting items, people not getting geared properly because saving for 1 item. Council being corruption, EP/GP being same as DKP, wasting items, saving for an item still possible etc. Council can at least make SURE that your main tank has all the tools needed to forward your guild, and yes this means he will get first DFT, Accuria too as a 'tanky-tank' isn't a thing anymore in vanilla.

I found EP/GP worked perfectly when I last raided with it but that was in the end of Pandaria with tons of items dropping of of each boss and homonization of most items. In vanilla though, drops are more scarse and rare items and overall gear are so much more impactful that such a system will only hurt the guild in the long run dps/threat/healing wise. Hence in vanilla I'd always suggest lootcouncil, which yes is always corrupt, but I found that you really have to speak up about stuff and keep the council on their toes, aka a council should always have classleaders discussing loot wishes and grudges with their classmembers, total secrecy is not the way to do a lootcouncil and does lead to the often seen gquit right when an item gets awarded to someone else (Sadly most of the time the gquitter is 100% right and has been neglected by council for ages while not having had any way to vent).

Might even make the lootlist public to avoid errors and wrong expectations, never tried but might work.

[sunwrathmother]

Reallistically speaking, every raider will finally get ALL the items they want in the end.

TBC is not around the corner, Classic is here to stay.
It is all a matter of patience and time (with a bit of luck).

However, players with the 2019 mentality of easy epics, upgrades with every week from caches and WQs, insanely large loot tables and titanforge/warforge chance will be shocked with Classic loot.

I am slowly leaning towards a google sheet priority list that is going to be up on discord for everyone to see. Climbing the priority ladder will be a combination of dedication, consistency and performance, taking into account the current gear and the value upgrade for each player individually. That is a lot of work though, with updates every week, but I m sure it will worth the effort in order to avoid drama and lootwhoring.
You cant have all 40 raiders happy at the same time but you can avoid players that come to classic with BfA mentality in mind!