[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[D3athsting]

Btw we all know the mountain joined the dark side and became darth malgus

[Celista]

Who kill do the kill? Jon or Arya is my bet.

I like Arya's character a lot but I hope it's not her. She's already killed off the Night King, Walder Frey, a bunch of minor characters, and was the one who carried out the execution sentence for Littlefinger. This is GoT, not Game of Arya.

[petej0]

Why does this Randyll and Dickon thing keep getting brought up like it's relevant to anything that just happened.
He fought against her and betrayed Olenna. Even after that she gave them a choice. They also wouldn't even consider Tyrion's idea of taking the black.

That's miles and miles from blowing up random innocent people in king's landing. None of it is even comparable.

The show has been hinting at Danys impulsiveness for killing and desire to burn cities to the ground from the beginning. Tyrion has been the voice of reason since he joined her counsel.

[crusadernero]

It would have if they built up to it properly. I know that some people in this thread feel that the show has done so but I think that at the very least, there are enough dissenting voices to indicate that they could have done a better job at it.

I agree with you. I think it would fit with a more of a buildup to this. This goes for alot of stuff that has happend in season 8. Shorter but more episodes would actually be better I think.

[Fahrenheit]

Definitely ready for the show to be over. It's run it's course.

Give me a year or two of nothing, then I should be ready for the age of heroes/the long night prequel series.

[crono14]

Did everyone forget the Danny of season 1 who watched her brother murdered in front of her, was betrayed by a woman whose life she saved, watched her lover wither away having to mercy kill him in the end, and was essentially cursed to never have natural born children? She didn’t massacre the sheep folk after that. She killed the woman responsible and then stepped into the bonfire herself.

She was betrayed left and right through the following several seasons, had to dodge several assassination attempts and lost other people close to her. But none of that swayed her from her goal to be the just ruler that she believed she was born to be. She always cared for the little folk, sometimes brutally punishing those who were cruel to people who couldn’t defend themselves.

I’d argue that what she went through in the time before crossing the narrow sea was far worse than what she has experienced in Westeros. She has suffered more losses, true. But she has also experienced victory, over the dead and over her enemies. With her goal right there within reach she suddenly snaps? Her nephew didn’t want to make out so now fear is the only way? What a load of shit.

She still has (albeit inexplicably) an army of Dothraki and Unsullied, her favorite dragon, the platonic devotion of Jon, a whole continent to the east of people who pretty much see her as a goddess. She could be the benevolent ruler she always wanted to be, easily. Whispers of Jon’s true lineage would just be that. Whispers. But no, she has nothing

The whole Targaryen coin flip thing is fucking dumb. She isn’t schizophrenic, she isn’t hearing voices, she isn’t under the delusion that she will soon take on her literal dragon form. She suffered the same hardships as before, but this time even with all her past experiences she just goes full on sociopath for no good reason.

While some of your points are true yes, her experiences during the first few seasons was also when she was really a naive little girl. The feedback from those she freed or saved was vastly different as well. Each city she conquered over there loved her and called her Mysha, so she had the love of the people. While trying to to rule over Mereen and not squashing her enemies, this allowed the Sons of the Harpy to almost claim her life and also kill some of the people close to her. Ever since then she has been colder and more rigid. When she gets to Westeros and saves literally the world with her army and everything no one cares about her, they are all flocking to Jon/Sansa and she has no love of the people at all.

How can she rule without the respect or love of the people? She can't and she realizes it, so fear it is. How best to spread fear throughtout the seven kingdoms? Well in her mind conquer like Aegon did and burn your enemies. Jon has a better claim and everyone loves him. Her most trusted friend and advisor was brutally murdered and everyone else has betrayed her. Her lover doesn't even share love or affection back to her. I think in that moment she knows how really alone she is and decides even if she lets the city surrender, Jon will still claim the throne because no one loves her. Is she right? Who knows, but in her mind she is. Olenna told her to be a dragon before she died, and she is breaking the wheel and taking what is hers.

It's rushed and not the best writing from the showrunners, but it will be more fleshed out in the books. Blame D&D all you want, but it's not far-fetched at all to see the story GRRM will be telling in future books.

[Jessicka]

The show has been hinting at Danys impulsiveness for killing and desire to burn cities to the ground from the beginning. Tyrion has been the voice of reason since he joined her counsel.

There was nothing impulsive about this.

[petej0]

While some of your points are true yes, her experiences during the first few seasons was also when she was really a naive little girl. The feedback from those she freed or saved was vastly different as well. Each city she conquered over there loved her and called her Mysha, so she had the love of the people. While trying to to rule over Mereen and not squashing her enemies, this allowed the Sons of the Harpy to almost claim her life and also kill some of the people close to her. Ever since then she has been colder and more rigid. When she gets to Westeros and saves literally the world with her army and everything no one cares about her, they are all flocking to Jon/Sansa and she has no love of the people at all.

How can she rule without the respect or love of the people? She can't and she realizes it, so fear it is. How best to spread fear throughtout the seven kingdoms? Well in her mind conquer like Aegon did and burn your enemies. Jon has a better claim and everyone loves him. Her most trusted friend and advisor was brutally murdered and everyone else has betrayed her. Her lover doesn't even share love or affection back to her. I think in that moment she knows how really alone she is and decides even if she lets the city surrender, Jon will still claim the throne because no one loves her. Is she right? Who knows, but in her mind she is. Olenna told her to be a dragon before she died, and she is breaking the wheel and taking what is hers.

It's rushed and not the best writing from the showrunners, but it will be more fleshed out in the books. Blame D&D all you want, but it's not far-fetched at all to see the story GRRM will be telling in future books.

I agree, its rushed but I think that has more to do with HBO wanting to end the series than anything else. In either case the clues are all there.

Back in Season 4 she told Jorah "They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one"

Another thing to factor in was all the betrayals she has encounter. The one left out was Cersei who said she would send the Lannister army to help against the army of the dead. So why would she trust Cersei when the bells did ring?

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There was nothing impulsive about this.

I think for a second while staring at the red keep she was contemplating something. If her plan was to burn the city then she may have been thinking "Do I really want to go through with this" Either case, it shouldnt be a shock that she burned Kings Landing, the show has been hinting at her ruthlessness to take what is hers from the start.

[MikeBogina]

It would have if they built up to it properly. I know that some people in this thread feel that the show has done so but I think that at the very least, there are enough dissenting voices to indicate that they could have done a better job at it.

And again, I would have loved to see her go full Mad Queen, but the whole build up has been that she's not like her father and Cersei is actually the Mad Queen.

I haven't read up much on the books(I own the main series and the big book about the Targaryen's) but from what I've gathered, a lot of characters have different motives.

*Spoilers* if you aren't up on the books.
Tyrion for instance(S1-4 amazing, S5-8 fucking retarded) when being freed by his brother, is informed that his former wife actually was legit and that his father made up the whole thing about her being paid, which then leads to Tyrion claiming to have killed Joffrey and hating Jaime. He then goes up and kills his dad thanks to Varys' help and then escapes to Pentos or where-ever. And he's extremely bitter at the world and wants everyone in Kingslanding dead.
Varys is a sneaky mofo, he actually helps Tyrion which leads to Tywin's death and gets him out of there, but stays around to make sure that Kevin and Pycell don't bring order(he wants an incompetent ruler around)
Tyrion leaves, angry at his brother for keeping the secret and murders his father for that secret(not because of Shae, etc...) and I think(not sure) but he wants revenge through Dany... not like how in the show where he's going their to "temper her worst impulses".
Jaime loves Tyrion, doesn't swear to kill him and takes off and ignores Cersei's pleads for help, nothing to do with Dorne and rescuing Myrcella and all that.

Just the way they change characters motives, how they make them more stupid in the show is just infuriating really. I really hope that with the books, we don't see Tyrion being a complete idiot and hopefully Dany doesn't go from loveable to hated in the course of a bell ringing, for the fear factor. If she's built up over time, it can work out wonderfully, especially if the Red Priestesses are like used more with her "Hey dragon queen, send those people to the red god, it's ok!"

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I like Arya's character a lot but I hope it's not her. She's already killed off the Night King, Walder Frey, a bunch of minor characters, and was the one who carried out the execution sentence for Littlefinger. This is GoT, not Game of Arya.

the Leaks that have been 99% accurate so far from 5 months ago, says it's not Arya.


Turns out Azor Ahai reborn had nothing to do with the Night King, but the Mad Queen :x

[Jessicka]

I agree, its rushed but I think that has more to do with HBO wanting to end the series than anything else. In either case the clues are all there.

Back in Season 4 she told Jorah "They can live in my new world or they can die in their old one"

Another thing to factor in was all the betrayals she has encounter. The one left out was Cersei who said she would send the Lannister army to help against the army of the dead. So why would she trust Cersei when the bells did ring?

This could have worked if it had been impulsive, and/or if the defending army had shown a bit more of Cersei's gambit that they'd choose the devil they knew. That's not what happened at all, while the Golden Company just fucked off, which was right and I was glad to see; but the Iron Fleet just got incinerated, and the ground forces didn't even use the obvious stocks of fire-water they'd been keeping.

It seemed a really weakass defence, that only made the too easy Dragon attack even easier; and in turn her "madness" less justifiable.

[petej0]

And again, I would have loved to see her go full Mad Queen, but the whole build up has been that she's not like her father and Cersei is actually the Mad Queen.

I haven't read up much on the books(I own the main series and the big book about the Targaryen's) but from what I've gathered, a lot of characters have different motives.

*Spoilers* if you aren't up on the books.
Tyrion for instance(S1-4 amazing, S5-8 fucking retarded) when being freed by his brother, is informed that his former wife actually was legit and that his father made up the whole thing about her being paid, which then leads to Tyrion claiming to have killed Joffrey and hating Jaime. He then goes up and kills his dad thanks to Varys' help and then escapes to Pentos or where-ever. And he's extremely bitter at the world and wants everyone in Kingslanding dead.
Varys is a sneaky mofo, he actually helps Tyrion which leads to Tywin's death and gets him out of there, but stays around to make sure that Kevin and Pycell don't bring order(he wants an incompetent ruler around)
Tyrion leaves, angry at his brother for keeping the secret and murders his father for that secret(not because of Shae, etc...) and I think(not sure) but he wants revenge through Dany... not like how in the show where he's going their to "temper her worst impulses".
Jaime loves Tyrion, doesn't swear to kill him and takes off and ignores Cersei's pleads for help, nothing to do with Dorne and rescuing Myrcella and all that.

Just the way they change characters motives, how they make them more stupid in the show is just infuriating really. I really hope that with the books, we don't see Tyrion being a complete idiot and hopefully Dany doesn't go from loveable to hated in the course of a bell ringing, for the fear factor. If she's built up over time, it can work out wonderfully, especially if the Red Priestesses are like used more with her "Hey dragon queen, send those people to the red god, it's ok!"

Since the show and books differ in a lot of aspects, it is expected to have some of the motivations change. There are some characters who are combined some outright missing and yet other plots dropped from the series. Its not supposed to be, and you cant expect it to follow the books exactly for budget and time reasons. However it is still a great adaptation.

[Independent voter]

The problem with this is that she's lying, and you're somehow not able to see that.

She's also a tyrant. And questioning her will and working against her will, as we saw with Varys, result in a gruesome and immediate death by her whim. No trial, no justice.

She isn't "breaking the wheel" and freeing people. She's just replacing the people on top, to make sure she's the tyrant who sits the throne.

Dany might've lied to Tyrion.

But if in the last episode Dany takes her places as queen, there's 65 years of peace in Westeros, isn't that worth it? She sacrifices thousands to bring peace and stability to millions? The lesson could even continue past her reign and the next king will get another 50 years of peace?

It's the Genghis Kahn method of government. Defy me and I'll erase you and yours. Worked for him.

Remember that there isn't any parliament in Westeros, there is only strong man rule, a king or queen. This is primitive governing. It's like Stalin said, "you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette."

I doubt it's what D&D have written but I think it would be an interesting twist.

Arya is going to assassinate Dany which everyone can see from a mile away.

[petej0]

This could have worked if it had been impulsive, and/or if the defending army had shown a bit more of Cersei's gambit that they'd choose the devil they knew. That's not what happened at all, while the Golden Company just fucked off, which was right and I was glad to see; but the Iron Fleet just got incinerated, and the ground forces didn't even use the obvious stocks of fire-water they'd been keeping.

It seemed a really weakass defence, that only made the too easy Dragon attack even easier; and in turn her "madness" less justifiable.

The ground forces knew nothing of the wildfire. Drogon was able to take out the Iron Fleet and battlements easily because he dive bombed them, or attacked from angles that the scorpions could not shoot from and got lucky against the few shots they were able to take with a slow loading weapon.

It was a weak ass defense. Then again, how many in the Lannister army are trained in shooting down something airborne, let alone a dragon.

[bowlink]

How many Northerners did they show us, a hundred? Less?

Fewer.

What?

[MikeBogina]

Since the show and books differ in a lot of aspects, it is expected to have some of the motivations change. There are some characters who are combined some outright missing and yet other plots dropped from the series. Its not supposed to be, and you cant expect it to follow the books exactly for budget and time reasons. However it is still a great adaptation.

I don't expect a lot of that, I personally think the book is impossible to adapt altogether...

and as great as the show was as an adaptation, it's now not a great adaption. The 3 characters I talked about, have all become shit characters and there was no need to change them from the books. We still followed them, hell 2 of them are A-rank actors on there and were used heavily... but they were turned into retards and now we have this shitty ending for all 3 of them.

For instance, I hate Euron's portrayal in the show. It's bad, but I didn't expect much because he was on the same level as many of the other characters that didn't get added... but he's not Tyrion... Jaime or Varys who have all been in the show since the beginning and none of their parts have been cut short due to constraints, only changed to dumb them down heavily.

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But if in the last episode Dany takes her places as queen, there's 65 years of peace in Westeros, isn't that worth it? She sacrifices thousands to bring peace and stability to millions? The lesson could even continue past her reign and the next king will get another 50 years of peace?

Was it needed? She killed thousands before the bells rang, then she proceeded to kill 10s if not 100s of thousands of innocents(Tyrion says there's a million people in the city, and locals were being brought in aswell, and she burned most of that city to the ground).

I get sacrifices for the greater good, Thanos kills have the universe so the other half wont starve, but what was gained from killing 100's of thousands of innocent people, even after the Lannister army surrendered? Like I get if Cersei had thousands in the Red Keep, using them as a shield while her Scorpions fired upon them, then yes kill those people... but no, what she did wasn't that, nor was it for the greater good.

Remember that there isn't any parliament in Westeros, there is only strong man rule, a king or queen. This is primitive governing.

Arya is going to assassinate Dany which everyone can see from a mile away.

The so far accurate leaks says otherwise(I would have freaked the fuck out if Arya got another kill, after seeing so much of her fucking plotarmor) and their governing is gonna get more modern real fast after putting up with these "kings"

[Doctor Funkenstein]

I love how people just know a person's motivations they haven't met all while knowing nothing about the actual process with which those people work in.

I love how ignorant people use that excuse all the time even though it means jack shit. It's as stupid as "you can't criticize a painting unless you're an artist!" or "you don't know what it's like to get punched in the face unless you're a boxer! DERR HERR HERR, I WON ARGUMANT!"

Not to mention, GRRM admitted he told D&D how the books would end.

No, he gave them notes on how the story progressed, but they were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted. And he neither went into the deeper mysteries of the story, nor was any of his dialogue or writing style given to them to effectively plagerize into a script. When left to their own devices, this is the shit we got.

And even when they did have all those things, they still fucked up. Euron being a prime example.

[Teph]

The ground forces knew nothing of the wildfire. Drogon was able to take out the Iron Fleet and battlements easily because he dive bombed them, or attacked from angles that the scorpions could not shoot from and got lucky against the few shots they were able to take with a slow loading weapon.

It was a weak ass defense. Then again, how many in the Lannister army are trained in shooting down something airborne, let alone a dragon.

Just one episode earlier they sniper gatlinged with those scorpions. This time around they didn't even turn them around to even try to shoot the dragon. At least those on the walls never moved an inch. I guess instead of looking at the scorpion Euron should have shot and it would be over before it began.

[Miyagie]

Dany nearly got killed by a child at the beginning of this Episode ofc she realised that she will never be save in Kingslanding and the people there cant be trusted.

[uopayroll]

I love how ignorant people use that excuse all the time even though it means jack shit. It's as stupid as "you can't criticize a painting unless you're an artist!" or "you don't know what it's like to get punched in the face unless you're a boxer! DERR HERR HERR, I WON ARGUMANT!"


No, he gave them notes on how the story progressed, but they were free to do whatever the fuck they wanted. And he neither went into the deeper mysteries of the story, nor was any of his dialogue or writing style given to them to effectively plagerize into a script. When left to their own devices, this is the shit we got.

And even when they did have all those things, they still fucked up. Euron being a prime example.

As I recall (been a while since I read the books), Euron in the book has a magic horn to control dragons (or claims to at least). How did you want them to suddenly work in all this magic when there was very little along the way?

[Super Kami Dende]

Pretty much Danykin.