Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
LastLast
  1. #41
    Warchief Lulbalance's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Barely Duelist
    Posts
    2,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Absolutely, but doesn't mean that LoS is necessarily a solution in this case.
    if you're in a position where 1 g.pie will kill you and the mage wants to blink into a bad spot to finish you..you probably fked up way earlier.

    I do think it's broken.. over 2200 I find I spec it may 50% of the games? I know some really high ranked mages the hardly ever spec out of it but outside of Rogue Mage it's pretty hard to consistently get set ups on people.

    short version: if you're always getting hit by g.pie and you aren't playing against a mage rogue comp, you're kinda messing up.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    if you're in a position where 1 g.pie will kill you and the mage wants to blink into a bad spot to finish you..you probably fked up way earlier.
    Not like Fire Mage seriously hardcast anything outside of Greater Pyro.
    I mean their entire damage outside of Greater Pyro is Meteor, Fire blast and Instant Pyro Blast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lulbalance View Post
    outside of Rogue Mage it's pretty hard to consistently get set ups on people.
    Yeah but RMX is like the most common Mage comp since Arena exists.

  3. #43
    Truthfully all % based attacks are going to start hitting harder now that scaling is going up. The issue is these abilities turn the game into a turn style pvp game where whoever does said ability first will win.

    Basically what they didn't want. So a GPY will hit for 35% while the rest of their rotation will take out another 30% if not more.

    You will see this more as people and their dps spike in pve and they have to put mitigating aspects in pvp. I can crit for nearly 100k on a few classes. That means that the damage bubble for balancing is about to need a tip.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    I agree that having 2 frontloaded casters against you makes for extremely unfun gameplay. Either you pillar through every bit of downtime and thus spend 60% of the game running around doing nothing or you fight them hoping they make a mistake, no other counterplay, really.

    1 destro or 1 gpyro mage is ok. 2 casters is full cancer.
    Because this is any worse than being a caster and having two melee you can't do anything about sitting your face as a caster. With chain interrupts, sitting your face kinda fun? There are two sides to every coin..

  5. #45
    Did a bg the other day with 6 fire mages. Blizz NEEDS to change this. It's too ridiculous trying to keep up with a static damage ability being spammed by multiple classes.

  6. #46
    I remember back in MOP people said chaos bolt and destro locks would be shit because long casts are easy to punish

    ... and then destro locks dominated for the majority of the expansion.

    Then people said it about greater pyroblast and fire mages.

    ... and then greater pyro destroyed random bgs, rbgs and a large portion of 3v3 for a good half of the expansion so far.

    Said it a million times - even if they make a cast that is 15 seconds long and instantly kills everyone, people will still get it off with ease. Blizzard needs to stop with this 'i got this damaging cast off, so you lose' buttons.

  7. #47
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    2,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Sliske View Post
    I remember back in MOP people said chaos bolt and destro locks would be shit because long casts are easy to punish

    ... and then destro locks dominated for the majority of the expansion.

    Then people said it about greater pyroblast and fire mages.

    ... and then greater pyro destroyed random bgs, rbgs and a large portion of 3v3 for a good half of the expansion so far.

    Said it a million times - even if they make a cast that is 15 seconds long and instantly kills everyone, people will still get it off with ease. Blizzard needs to stop with this 'i got this damaging cast off, so you lose' buttons.
    so your solution is to make every caster into an instant cast spamming monkey, like a ranged melee? or do you prefer to have casters cast long spells that deal no dmg?

  8. #48
    Scarab Lord
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    One path
    Posts
    4,905
    Flat shave abilities never were any fun because they scale horribly as in they don't and just feel sleazy to both use/go up against.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  9. #49
    Immortal Raugnaut's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Frogspoison#1419 Battletag
    Posts
    7,134
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    so your solution is to make every caster into an instant cast spamming monkey, like a ranged melee? or do you prefer to have casters cast long spells that deal no dmg?
    To be honest, I feel that spells like Glacial Spike are fine - Long setup (Have to cast 5x Frostbolts, preferably on a frozen target), long cast time (3 seconds), high payload (Pre-nerf). When I got globalled by a Glacial Spike like that, I felt that I DESERVED to be globaled.

    Here's my suggestion - Greater Pyroblast deals up to 50% health in damage, based on distanced traveled. Farther the distance it travels, the less damage it deals. So, a point-blank Greater Pyroblast, you only need to cast it twice. A Pyroblast that forced someone to run across the map, tickles when it finally lands.

    This makes it signficantly less effective against other ranged casters, but IMMENSELY more effective against melee - Do they eat the huge damage, or do they open distance on their own, giving you breathing room?
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    so your solution is to make every caster into an instant cast spamming monkey, like a ranged melee? or do you prefer to have casters cast long spells that deal no dmg?
    My solution is pretty fucking simple - if you wanna have something do loads of damage, it either needs to take a lot of time to build up, a long cooldown, or both.

    Hitting people for 35% of their hp in a meta where people die slow as fuck from every other source of damage is just retarded as shit.

    You don't make the hardest hitting ability in the game be put onto zero cooldown, onto a spell school that doesn't punish the mage defensively if interrupt, and onto the same class that has shit tons of mobility usable while casting.

    But here i am using logic. Not much use that, is it?

  11. #51
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bear Taco, Left Hand of Death
    Posts
    21,280
    We haven't even gotten to the fact that mages are outhealing their own support/healers while blinking around the map and casting these 2 shot combos. Sure, I can play perfect and make sure that mage is fekkin useless for 1.45 minutes, but there will always be 10 seconds that I've exhausted everything any given class has to break range, then recover range, interrupt, hard CC, reflect, etc and they'll still have the same dumbass spells with no barriers to using them. And that's just 1v1. You get 2 fire mages hopping around like monkeys and they don't even need to cast GPyro b/c you'll die from instant casts, aoe disorients, and anything else you can't immune with a paladin bubble.
    BAD WOLF

  12. #52
    Brewmaster Skylarking's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Centrelink
    Posts
    1,327
    So I saw this thread and thought why not try some pvp

    Did some rando bgs and almost every game I am top in killing blow and always up there in damage. Greater pyro blast is in a league of its own in terms of damage. So strong in fact it makes people back peddle in confusion thinking, where the fuck did all my health go?

    If pve is going to suck donkey dick this expansion then I'll probably try to have fun deleting people in bgs.

  13. #53

  14. #54
    yeah greater pyro is really fucking fun in arena fighting mage rogue comps at 2400 and all you can do is die instantly unless you're an hpal. Greater pyros for 80k makes sense. Kidney is on too low of a CD and they get way to much control.. DB, Blind, Sap, Kidney, Poly, Ring, Cheap shot. Shadowy Duel,

  15. #55
    Why not just add a cd to greater pyro?

  16. #56
    Herald of the Titans enigma77's Avatar
    3+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    2,677
    The problem is not the ability itself, but the fact that mages are highly mobile and packed with cc.

    Greater Pyro hits way harder than Chaosbolt, but the difference is you can stop the lock from casting it rather easily with some coordination.

    Then there's the mage, who can blink 2 times and while casting it too.

    Greater Pyroblast should not be castable while blinking.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Nothing should not be castable while blinking.
    Fixed that for you bro.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Then there's the mage, who can blink 2 times and while casting it too.
    Like, this may seem awesome in random bg's and possibly in 1v1 situations vs some Melees, but in rated this is really a huge investment.

    First off, that means you picked Shimmer, meaning you will sit every stun, which is obviously bad for a class that doesn't have any passive reduction and low Armor.
    Second, you are a lame duck for the next 20 seconds.

    Especially against Melee comps, if you use 2x Blink to get off one Pyro, that Pyro better secures a win or you'll be sitting in Ice block very soon.
    If a Mage eats a full stun while something like a WW Monk+Arms Warr focusing them, and then can't even blink after the Stun is over, you're just in a world of hurt.


    Furthermore, Greater Pyro is always an invitation for any spell related counters, so the Mage sits there and casts Greater Pyro for like 4 seconds, how about i drop Grounding right before he's finished? Spell reflect? Netherward? AMS?

    A Mage that plays Greater Pyro just does what the name implies, they play with Fire, if you let a Mage just have their fun casting 4 second Greater Pyro's, throw Meteors at single people, you just get rolled over.
    Same shit happens if you don't stop a Destro lock currently, and they're in my opinion on a whole different level due to their Havoc+Coil combo.

    When it comes to Fire Mages in rated PvP, Greater Pyro is the least of my concerns, rather their huge amount of CC and them just doing huge burst while not casting anything (Fire Blast, Hotstreak Pyro, Meteor).
    Playing against RMP is just the usual cancer because all they do is trying to land a CC on healer, then proceed to kill one person during a kidney while the mage doesn't even hardcast anything outside of Poly / RoF.

  19. #59
    The Unstoppable Force Kelimbror's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Bear Taco, Left Hand of Death
    Posts
    21,280
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    *snip*.
    Completely ignores the fact that Pyro mages play with comps that allow them to totally shut down the other team while they use said ability. If they use immunities or counters to break the first set, the opposing team has now wasted anything possible to compete with the additional CC and teleporting pyros. In top tier play, it's basically play perfect until you have nothing left and then pyro wins by default.

    The only comp I've reliably shut down R/M/x is with W/W + DH in 2s at low ranks only. At higher ranks, the same mobility just leads to being kited to death. It's also laughable to claim mages have no 'passive reduction' and 'low armor' when they take less damage than plate wearers and heal for more than any other dps can via self sustain. That's the problem is that mages and to a lesser extent locks have been given every single tool in the wow kit, with no downsides in arena. Godly heals? Check. Endless mobility? Check? CC that spans the DR spectrum by itself? Check. Immunity, disengage, combat drop, damage reduction, ability to damage out of line of sight preventing skillful los play? checkcheckcheckcheckcheckcheckcheck
    BAD WOLF

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    Completely ignores the fact that Pyro mages play with comps that allow them to totally shut down the other team while they use said ability. If they use immunities or counters to break the first set, the opposing team has now wasted anything possible to compete with the additional CC and teleporting pyros. In top tier play, it's basically play perfect until you have nothing left and then pyro wins by default.
    If i lose to RMP, that may attribute to many things, but Greater Pyro is rarely among them.
    Like seriously, if you have at least one class on your team that can reasonably screw casters (such as Shaman) greater Pyro is not a big worry, Meteor combo is a much bigger deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    The only comp I've reliably shut down R/M/x is with W/W + DH in 2s at low ranks only.
    That doesn't make any sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelimbror View Post
    It's also laughable to claim mages have no 'passive reduction' and 'low armor' when they take less damage than plate wearers and heal for more than any other dps can via self sustain.
    Okay, what kind of passive damage reduction does fire mage have?
    There are only two PvP talents, Netherwind Armor and Dampened Magic (which doesn't help against burst at all), which you generally do not favour because there are better options like Greater Pyro, Temporal Shield.

    Now, that leaves Mages with their Absorb Armor and if you've taken it, Temporal Shield.
    Both are dispellable, meaning that unless you play with a Resto Druid, they'll be gone pretty quickly.

    Outside of that, Mages are quite squishy and nowhere near the level of something like a DK, who is pretty immortal in Arena right now.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •