[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[xcess]

yeah Euron was smart enough to know he needed to setup an ambush to have a good chance at killing the dragon. But in the next episode they had no big plans to counter the dragon. I really thought Cersei had something up their sleeve when she didnt just kill them all at the missandei meeting. Cersei became honorable at the wrong time

[Puri]

Anyone else think Arya actually died? I’ve been thinking about that horse, and how much it looks like that Golden Company’s dudes. It’s odd that they showed a scene of it dying, then Arya sees a horse that looks just like it and rides it out. Makes me think her and the horse are in the afterlife and maybe she did become Death.

If you know a spoiler, don’t tell me. I want to be surprised.

It was the first that I thought, but (not actually a spoiler as it was seen in the next episode's preview but nontheless) we can see her standing between the unsullied. It would be quite strange for got to show a ghost watching current events.

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The only problem is that D&D didn't make a smooth transition and so it feels kind of jarring. It could have made more sense if there was a direct trigger instead of just the bells. Like if Rhaegal had died during the fight or after the surrender.

Actually I think there would have been quite an easy solution: They should not have executed Missandei at the end of the last episode. Her death was not needed to trigger the siege and attack on the city.
Everything goes as it went in the episode until the bells ring, they meet with Cersei to accept her surrender. Cersei then kills Missandei (ideally in some extremely cruel way), and her crying out "dracarys" triggers Dannys (and Grey Worms) killing spree.

[PACOX]

-snip-

I'm not on any Dany hate because I feel like what she did in the last episode go along with her entire arc. I wouldn't call her a brilliant villain though, just not an obvious one. She is just doing what her family does.

I think a more compelling would be if she deemed all of the major houses corrupt and wiped them out, not bring them to heel under her rule. She'd purge all (or try) all the nobles like Darth Vader killing Jedi. Her path would be violent, ruthless, and bloody but all the while in the name of her 'bringing order to Westeros'.

Don't take this guy too seriously but its funny when comedy is almost reality

[mojojojo202]

It has been mentioned quite a bit in this thread but not everybody is upset with the last episode because Mad Dany was unbelievable. It was just poorly written. That's basically how I feel about the entire season so far (and perhaps the last two seasons as well). I would be willing to accept every major plot point that has happened if the events leading up to them had time to actually fit together coherently. Instead they just felt rushed and, again, poorly written. They are sacrificing the writing for cinematic flair and it really shows. That's really where a lot of the complaints are coming from.

It's easy for a lot of people to suspend their disbelief and just enjoy the show for its extremely high quality. That's fine, but a lot of us were conditioned to expect more. The Winterfell battle is a great example of this. If you just focus on the action it is visually appealing and cool as hell. When you actually think about it, though, it's a truly awful battle. The tactics make no sense and it's hard to fear for the heroes when time and time again they are overwhelmed but the screen fades to black and they somehow got away.

Then you have the show ignoring its own rules from episode to episode. In one episode a handful of ballistas are able to take down a dragon with relative ease. In the very next episode, the ballistas have literally no effect on the dragon because the episode demanded Dany burn down the entire city with it. It's fucking silly.

I think this would be a defensible position for d+d If the cinematography was really good or even interesting. It really isnt.

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I'm not on any Dany hate because I feel like what she did in the last episode go along with her entire arc. I wouldn't call her a brilliant villain though, just not an obvious one. She is just doing what her family does.

I think a more compelling would be if she deemed all of the major houses corrupt and wiped them out, not bring them to heel under her rule. She'd purge all (or try) all the nobles like Darth Vader killing Jedi. Her path would be violent, ruthless, and bloody but all the while in the name of her 'bringing order to Westeros'.

Don't take this guy too seriously but its funny when comedy is almost reality

Just doing what her family does robs her character of any agency, pretty much the definition of bad writing.

[Jayma]

Man. I bet half of the people who keep using "bad writing" use for when they mean "I don't like it". Or maybe I was mistaken when I thought people didn't pay attention on their creative writing course in high school.

Idk do you think D&D are good writers?

[Kharadin]

I feel like a vast minority but I'm really enjoying this season. s08e03 and s08e05 were fantastic episodes, e02 felt like an early farewell to a lot of characters, I enjoyed this immensely. I'll concede we've lost a little character development seemingly in exchange for screen time of the fan favourites, and also a couple things like Dany's choice to rule with fear rather than love could have been fleshed out a little better (perhaps not in the given screentime though, I think this is the tradeoff D&D have had to make). But otherwise, the episodes have been excellent, and I'm enjoying it, and look forward to the finale.

[xcess]

I wonder whats Jon Snow gonna do after what Queen of Dragons have done to the city. Still lot of people doing their own story on how it will end.

Dany has done worse than cersei now, so she has to go or at least drogon and whoever still follows her. Sansa will be in her sights surely

[Soimu]

All this been fixed if they had done 10 seasons!!

it's already been said before, they have no books to work with and i doubt the writers would have made a good story in 2 more seasons, prob the same old hollywood shitty cliche like we seen in last 2 seasons.

[Lodpaul]

For so many people to say similar things it no longer becomes a personal opinion but a mass collective of opinion which sways more towards fact.

For me it’s not even so much how what’s happened is bad. It’s how we’ve got there. The show is rushed whether you agree or not, it’s shown in nearly every episode this season and some of the writing is just bad.

Does anyone have a problem with Arya killing the NK? Not really, I didn’t see that coming and thought it was a shocker (in a good way). Do we all have a problem not finding literally ANYTHING out about the NK? Yes. Regardless of being in the books or not, he’s in this show and has been forever and we’ve been made to fear him and understand he’s the single biggest threat within this universe. We NEEDED dialect between himself and Bran, we needed to understand more about their connection. The dothraki on the starting line … No one knew the red witch was coming and they had no Dragon Glass weaponry (or rather I couldn’t see any), she came out to light their swords up just for it to look cool. Without her there they were literally useless. Lazy writing.

Sneak attack or not with the pirate taking out a dragon, so he can solo this dragon with 3 perfect shots and then scare the remaining 1 off but an entire fleet can’t hit it in the next episode?

At the end of the 4th episode, Danny stands in front of Kings Landing with about 20 Unsullied, the dragon some ways behind and Tyrion, he tries to persuade his sister who he knows is as evil as they come and cares for no one but her children to give up, she beheads Missandei, Danny looks angry……. Next episode starts and Danny, Tyrion and crew are back at Dragonstone??? So we’re made to believe they all just walked off, 25 of them walking back from KL to DS (imagine that walk). We’re made to believe Cersei just let these small few leave with 200 of her army aiming arrows at them? She just wouldn’t. It’s stupid.

Everything just feels either rushed to make points or not very well thought out. They can throw as much money as they want into the CGI and the production, it looks great but the story and plot is just lacking and rushed and it’s a real shame after so many years of great TV for it to come to this sort of end. It’s even more of a shame to know D&D have signed up to make another 3 Star Wars films which no one is asking for which in turn makes them want to rush something that people actually give a shit about and finish it properly in due time with a great story end.

Who really gives a fuck what happens next? I’ve felt nothing for any character this season, I don’t feel connected to anyone, whilst in the past I’ve felt emotionally attached and invested in SOOOO many.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I'm not an theater or English major so I don't really bother with thinking of something is good or bad writing. I enjoy the show and that's all I care about tbh.

Damn, imagine thinking you are cool because you like bad writing lol. The things we see on the internet...

[Jayma]

I'm not an theater or English major so I don't really bother with thinking of something is good or bad writing. I enjoy the show and that's all I care about tbh.

I don't think you need to be an english major to make that kind of judgement. If they can't appeal to the average viewer they've already failed to some extent.

[lonely zergling]

After reading the more refined leaks for next episode I just want to throw up. All these years for this ending... if you thought last episode was bad wait for the next one LUL.

[Puri]

Also a nice interview with Conleth Hill (Varys): https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/12/game-of...rys-interview/

[Prophet June Bug]

yIkEs

Dumb and Dumber really don't care do they?

Another horrendously bad episode. I've said it before and I'll say it again: this show has gone downhill since season 5, but every time I think they've reached rock bottom they just dig deeper and deeper. Their butchering of Stannis in S5E10 seems merciful compared to this literal dumpsterfire.

They did my boi Jaime dirty. That line of him 'not caring for them, innocent or otherwise' is easily up there among the biggest character assassinations in history. I knew they didn't like Jaime, as much as they didn't like Stannis and Theon, but I didn't imagine they'd shove such a contradictory line in there so carelessly as if no one should notice. Fucking hacks.

I'd never in a hundred years thought that Emilia Clarke's acting would actually be one of the better parts of an episode. Seasons 1-7 it's all been mediocre, but she stepped it up these last few episodes, or well, the show stepped down.

Tragic, really.

Damn, imagine thinking you are cool because you like bad writing lol. The things we see on the internet...

His profile pic should be enough of a hint.

[Endus]

They did my boi Jaime dirty. That line of him 'not caring for them, innocent or otherwise' is easily up there among the biggest character assassinations in history. I knew they didn't like Jaime, as much as they didn't like Stannis and Theon, but I didn't imagine they'd shove such a contradictory line in there so carelessly as if no one should notice. Fucking hacks.

Jaime's path could always have led him here. That was what made him compelling. That he was always torn between his love for Cersei, and wanting to be a decent man.

It isn't bad writing to have someone lose that struggle and make the wrong choice in the end. It's bad writing to rush it. The problem isn't the end point they reached, it's that they needed to provide more detail.

Even just having him arrive in King's Landing a few hours earlier, letting him get to the keep without issue and find Cersei before everything goes to hell, so they can have a moment and she can clearly establish where she stands, so that he has to choose to stand with her against everything he's been fighting for, or finally, for once, choose to walk away, that would've been fine, regardless of what he chose. Instead, because they take that scene out, it seems he made his decision while lying in bed with Brienne, which is a real slap in the face to her character; "jeez, this chick's a terrible lay compared to my sis, I'm outsies". That scene works fine when you accept that Jaime is returning to make that final decision as to where he stands with Cersei, but he never MADE that decision; he arrived and acted solely on one choice branch; that he loves Cersei no matter what.

We needed that one decision point, IMO, to cap off his arc. I could see him choosing either way, for a heroic or tragic ending, but either is fine, really. Tragedy is an underused tool, IMO.

[Independent voter]

Jaime's path could always have led him here. That was what made him compelling. That he was always torn between his love for Cersei, and wanting to be a decent man.

It isn't bad writing to have someone lose that struggle and make the wrong choice in the end. It's bad writing to rush it. The problem isn't the end point they reached, it's that they needed to provide more detail.

Even just having him arrive in King's Landing a few hours earlier, letting him get to the keep without issue and find Cersei before everything goes to hell, so they can have a moment and she can clearly establish where she stands, so that he has to choose to stand with her against everything he's been fighting for, or finally, for once, choose to walk away, that would've been fine, regardless of what he chose. Instead, because they take that scene out, it seems he made his decision while lying in bed with Brienne, which is a real slap in the face to her character; "jeez, this chick's a terrible lay compared to my sis, I'm outsies". That scene works fine when you accept that Jaime is returning to make that final decision as to where he stands with Cersei, but he never MADE that decision; he arrived and acted solely on one choice branch; that he loves Cersei no matter what.

We needed that one decision point, IMO, to cap off his arc. I could see him choosing either way, for a heroic or tragic ending, but either is fine, really. Tragedy is an underused tool, IMO.

If it's true that George RR Martin gave D&D his outline of the story including George RR Martin's ending of "A Song of Ice and Fire", and this is the plot that will appear in the books, I'm sure George RR Martin will take a lot of time and explain in great detail how these characters like Jaime, Cersei and Dany came to their decisions. He'll write the last two books in a way that will make sense to everyone.

He's a very good author.

[Tekkommo]

After reading the more refined leaks for next episode I just want to throw up. All these years for this ending... if you thought last episode was bad wait for the next one LUL.

The leaks of the finale make the previous episodes look genius. It can't end like this... but I can't doubt they are not true since he predicted e5.

[Logwyn]

it's already been said before, they have no books to work with and i doubt the writers would have made a good story in 2 more seasons, prob the same old hollywood shitty cliche like we seen in last 2 seasons.

Yet the Author of said books is a producer. Not like they couldn't ask him or something. Also sure they could have made it better. This one is rushed and it shows at the least they could have made this one 10 episode but I guess the budget was getting to them.

Maybe they should have done the "Wheel of Time"?

[eschatological]

The leaks of the finale make the previous episodes look genius. It can't end like this... but I can't doubt they are not true since he predicted e5.

You have a link for these updated leaks? I need to steel myself.

[Mister K]

You have a link for these updated leaks? I need to steel myself.

https://old.reddit.com/r/freefolk/co...t_episodes_46/

Found it earlier, I think this is what they are talking about.