[Spoilers] Sylvanas just tried to kill...

[Ielenia]

I suggest you watch the Cinematic again, the Rogues have little interest in Thrall until he attempts to help Saurfang.

You're the one who should watch the Cinematic again. Thrall literally just stands by the anvil without even moving a muscle to help Saurfang but the second rogue makes his move and jumps on Thrall anyways.

The one had a direct jump onto Thrall, but didn't go for him, Thrall didn't even dodge, he kinda just threw some ash towards her and the direction she was aiming wasn't for Thrall even prior to the ash.

The assassin went straight toward Thrall. Attacked him, disarmed him, and stayed on Thrall the entire time.

[Zyky]

The reason you saw the poison of the one attacking Saurfang was because he blocked them. The blades clashed against his armor. Thrall dodged them instead. They both used poison, as befitting rogues and assassins.

I love how you're attempting to use feely craft for things that aren't CLEARLY shown.

- - - Updated - - -

You're the one who should watch the Cinematic again. Thrall literally just stands by the anvil without even moving a muscle to help Saurfang but the second rogue makes his move and jumps on Thrall anyways.


The assassin went straight toward Thrall. Attacked him, disarmed him, and stayed on Thrall the entire time.

Take another look, she wasn't even leaping towards Thrall at all, we see her direction when Thrall throws ash at her, she was only trying to distract him, she didn't leap for the kill.

[Maljinwo]

Take another look, she wasn't even leaping towards Thrall at all, we see her direction when Thrall throws ash at her, she was only trying to distract him, she didn't leap for the kill.

Which is why the assasin hits thrall and tries to murder him instead of keep aiming towards Saurfang

ok

[Triceron]

If Thrall was the target of the assassins then what reason would they possibly have to strike while Saurfang was there?
If Saurfang was the target why would they strike while he was with Thrall and why would Saurfang say he followed them?
If Saurfang followed and knew the assassins were there then why not deal with them beforehand while he had the element of surprise?
Why not warn Thrall? Even if asking about the family was to see if it was clear he had plenty of time after.

A few things i had problems with.

Well they attacked for the purpose of a condensing all the narrative of convincing Thrall to join the fight in a 4 minute window. Without the tension and the immediate threat to his family, the whole meeting would have been more realistically drawn out in a matter of days and weeks if idling and brooding until Thrall is convinced.

I've seen other comments people have made about these assassins being so weaksauce and that Sylvanas would have sent her elite Dark Rangers or whatnot, but again all those issues miss the point. The Rogues were fodder meant to be killed in order to push the Thrall into action. The narrative isn't about killing Thrall or Saurfang.

[Zyky]

Which is why the assasin hits thrall and tries to murder him instead of keep aiming towards Saurfang

ok

No poison on her weapons, she was distracting Thrall so that he couldn't flank them with Saurfang, knowing full well that Thrall would have helped Saurfang. Use your head please.

[Ielenia]

People are saying that they don't believe that Saurfang was tracking the assassin, but after watching the cinematic one more time, I noticed something: when Saurfang asks where is Thrall's family, we don't see his face, but we do see Thrall's, and he narrows his eyes and tilts his head just slightly, as if picking up a subtle warning the old orc just gave him, considering Thrall's response: "not far." It wasn't "in the house" or "working the fields" or "playing by the river", etc. It was a very vague answer that Thrall gave Saurfang.

- - - Updated - - -

Take another look, she wasn't even leaping towards Thrall at all, we see her direction when Thrall throws ash at her, she was only trying to distract him, she didn't leap for the kill.

The rogue literally jumps at him and Thrall moves out of the way, just missing being struck. If the rogue wasn't intending to attack Thrall, then landing right next to him makes no sense.

[Snorri]

I love how you're attempting to use feely craft for things that aren't CLEARLY shown.

- - - Updated - - -

Take another look, she wasn't even leaping towards Thrall at all, we see her direction when Thrall throws ash at her, she was only trying to distract him, she didn't leap for the kill.

Speaking of clearly shown. You see the poison ONLY when Saurfang parries and blocks the knives. The red rogue makes 9 swings at him. The first 7 are blocked by the armor on his wrists and chest, causing both sparks and poison fumes to fly. The last 2 he dodges completely, causing no poison fumes. Look at 2:36-241 in slow motion.

Moving over to Thrall, his attacker swings twice at him, but he dodges them both. Then she swings two times again, only to have both her hands grabbed. All her swings missed, and there was no poison coming from the blades. But, taking it all in, it's very likely that her daggers were poisoned too, and that you only see the poison if the blades clash against something solid. Thrall had to dodge, as he wore no armor on his upper body. But if I'm wrong, point out where you see poison flying after a missed attack, especially from the rogue attacking Thrall.

The distance between Thrall and Saurfang was pretty big. Though she didn't dive straight at him, it was pretty damn close, a mere feet away. All the ash in her face probably disoriented her for a split second. If her target was Saurfang she would have leaped further away from Thrall towards Saurfang. It was meant to be just a brief but cool action scene to make Thrall understand that he and his family are targets of Sylvanas.

[CreatureLives]

Thrall Baratheon

[Triceron]

I love how you're attempting to use feely craft for things that aren't CLEARLY shown.

It was clearly shown. Every impact showed clouds of poison, every missed attack yielded no added effects. If one rogue is using stealth and poison, it can be reasoned that so was the other. It's actually less rational for the audience to assume they are using different weapons.

Let's say you see 3 agents in dark glasses and suits, and they all put their fingers to their ear. If one of them takes out a gun, you can automatically assume all of them have guns. You don't need to show everything for the audience to understand the situation, it actually makes less sense to rationalize a what-you-see-is-what-you-get basis. We rationalize that these two similarly-dressed, similar weapon-wielding assailants are working together, and are using the same tactics and weapons.

Take another look, she wasn't even leaping towards Thrall at all, we see her direction when Thrall throws ash at her, she was only trying to distract him, she didn't leap for the kill.

You don't distract someone by ambushing them from above while invisible. You distract by making yourself known and taunting the opponent or grabbing their attention. Think about it, if you wanted to distract a guard, would you sneak up on them and attack them from a blindspot? No, that's the opposite of distraction.

[Ophenia]

Considering a lot of the cinematics were started well before Metzen retired (Metzen own quote stated they were showing him the Battle for Lordaeron ones before he left and he left back when Legion was released.) all of this stuff has been set in stone during Legion at the latest.

I know. I was not saying that the future cinematic will copy Endgame or whatever. Just saying that would be sad for them to have imagined an "interesting" turn of events which will be unfortunately used by another franchise, which could ultimately "ruin" it (oh, that's the same as in *insert random show*). For the people, they don't care when you wrote the story, it's important when you unveil it.

[Whitedragon]

Something I keep seeing people bring up, is why did Sylvanas only send 2 assassins. My thought is it's most likely just cinematic budget, I imagine at some point there will be a quest chain Horde side where it will task you with disposing of 10-20 additional assassins, and probably say what his wife and kid will do while daddies away.

[Stellarssaurus]

People are saying that they don't believe that Saurfang was tracking the assassin, but after watching the cinematic one more time, I noticed something: when Saurfang asks where is Thrall's family, we don't see his face, but we do see Thrall's, and he narrows his eyes and tilts his head just slightly, as if picking up a subtle warning the old orc just gave him, considering Thrall's response: "not far." It wasn't "in the house" or "working the fields" or "playing by the river", etc. It was a very vague answer that Thrall gave Saurfang.

- - - Updated - - -


The rogue literally jumps at him and Thrall moves out of the way, just missing being struck. If the rogue wasn't intending to attack Thrall, then landing right next to him makes no sense.

I have to agree with that.
And if I may complement, we can suppose that these rogues are elite killers, so they had plenty of time to kill saurfang when he was traveling to Nagrand.
Another point to say too is why attack Saurfang when he was with Thrall if he was the only target?

A Third point is if they are there only for Saurfang they have heard the conversation and Thrall don't see like he was willing to return to horde, then why attack?

[Chromeshellking]

I mean if I were an undead rogue that is something I would try to accomplish.... If a mage can turn invisible, finding magical or chemical means to mask a rogue's smell should be doable. Then again I'm sure other races have odors too. Does deodorant even exist in WoW? Perfume does, but perfume would smell. I'm talking just flat almost odorless substances to make you not have armpit stench. If I don't wear anything my pits reek like a skunk within 8 hours.

Problem is perpetual state of decay would require a great deal of upkeep. I mean magic can't amend that away. However I did think about what if you wore either charcoal or coffee grounds infused into the armor/clothes they wear? It might absorb some of it...maybe.

[The Stormbringer]

Not just any Dreadlord, but a single one with relationship with Thrall and who is already central character in BfA.

_{(Don't mind me, I'm just trying to match stupidity of mental gymnastic of people who refuse to see what it shown to them and try to invent some outlandish excuse just to whitewash their beloved Sylvanas with equally stupid alternative ideas of my own).}

You lost me, dude. I can't think of any Dreadlords that Thrall--oh god dammit, I realized what you were saying!



It's fine, she's just yandere for him and wants to get rid of his family so they can start one.

[Deianeira]

When Thrall realized he could no longer control the powers of the Doomhammer, and it headed the call of another shaman, he left for Outlands to live in peace with his family.

Right now there are similarities between her and Garrosh. But I'm gonna wait to see where it goes before yelling at Blizzard.



Seriously. No reason to send assassins to kill the Hordes former and greatest Warchief, knowing Saurfang would go talk to him about it, who can rally the Horde against her when she has everyone subservient and following her out of fear.

But if Saurfang was following the assassins, how come he came there before them and talked in all calmness before they attacked? Also please if he was following them wouldnt he just tell Thrall that when he arrived? If not then WHY not? Makes no sense at all if you ask me.

- - - Updated - - -

Sylvanas isn't an idiot. Saurfang was near the Blasted Lands, and Thrall has returned to stop a bad Warchief before. Taking him out before he does so makes sense.

Thrall represents the Honorable Horde. His return would gain the rebellion the support of the people it currently lacks. If these orcs were any good at PR, which they do not seem to be.

If not for Saurfang, the rogues would have probably succeeded. You can spot plumes of poison coming off the Forsaken blades when they strike Saurfang's armor.


All that said, I still kind of feel that Sylvanas is playing a bigger game, and that this rebellion is her idea, or at least doesn't go against her plans. In which case she willingly sacrificed these Forsaken, using them to motivate Thrall. Or may at least be alright with whatever outcome resulted.

What if Sylvanas is just makinmg sure that the "old" heroes that are still around get out of their despair and motivates them to fight, because it seemed that Thrall was not especially interested in getting back to being Green Jesus anytime soon with Saurfangs words alone?

[Gatto]

I am not sure Sylvanas would send assassins to kill thrall... but maybe blightcaller could have send some ( maybe without telling her ).

[Powerogue]

Sylvanas was probably out to kidnap Thrall's family. She's targeting anyone from the Horde that might rally against her. Anyone that inspires them with hope. Hope has no place in her Horde, only loyalty to her.

Why do you think she set up that situation with Derek? She knew Baine wouldn't stand for it. Or burning Teldrassil? She knew that wasn't Saurfang's plan. She presses, sees who stands up against her, and who falls in line.

Garrosh blamed entire races for the actions of one and just casually booted them all from the faction until he had no one left to guard him. Sylvanas, rather, you could think of as targeting the heart of the Horde with a precisely aimed, blight-laced arrow. The end goal being less about the destruction of the faction as having an army of obedient drones who don't even turn their heads when you ask them to firebomb an orphanage.

Or, as Killian put it, "Our moral compass is incarcerated, we can now do whatever we want!"

[Jericho21]

No spoiler tag?

Seriously dude? The cinematic has been out for a couple/few days. If you haven't watched it by now then go back under your rock. This isn't game altering or world ending discussion.

OT: I can see two possible lines to this: Saurfang did actually follow them and he didn't lie and this is another alt-faction that is trying to push the divide further. Think Bolvar.

The other is Saurfang is insane and is trying to garner all of these sympathy votes and characters together to "stop" Sylvanas and overthrow her, to only claim the Warchief mantle for himself and run the Horde as he wants it. Before you ask,"Why not just do a mak'gora?" Cuz that's a lot of work to do just for yourself BUT if you paint yourself as "honorable" and against Sylvanas, you get others to do most of the work for you.

[Donatello Trumpi]

watching sylvanas fanatics bullshit their way out of this one is hilarious

haha, true true

[Thorbalt]

Sylvanas knows there is dissent among her ranks. Baine proved that. And she knows that Thrall is one very respected orc among the Horde races, not just the orcs. And she probably knows that Thrall would heavily disapprove of her methods and tactics. If those dissenters got Thrall to join them, that'd bring a lot of legitimacy to them.

So it's a logical decision to have Thrall be offed.

Yeah, even Thrall would have shoved doomhammer up Baines ass for suggesting surrender right after the alliance kills the king of your new ally. Sylv is also one of the only people who understands why thrall wanted to leave it all behind so much, so she knew it would take a deliberate provocation to bring him back. Which is what she didnt want to happen indeed. So Saurfang lied to thralls face, used the rogues he knew were after him and implied that Thralls family would be at risk if he just stayed out of it. He abandoned his honor and had no concern whatsoever for the safety of Thralls family