She's going to consume a nice void lord then lazer beam the bad void lord. Saving the world. Then come get nathanos in a dream sequence and disappear.
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Piece, peace. Easily mixed up!!
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Issue is that was her initial plan by taking teldrassil hostage. Create a wedge and force peace. But then she caught feelings and set fire to hippie land.
Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)
Last edited by Eggroll; 2019-05-17 at 04:53 AM.
Holy molly how much wrong can you get there.
Nowhere near the Horde and the Alliance got "peace" Kultirans from Theramore were still attacking the Horde in vanilla, even they teamup with the Alliance to make plans to attack Razor Hills (FUCKING 15 YEAR OLD QUESTS) from that Ashenvale and Ashara questlines for the Horde its "we need wood and food to survive in Orgrimmar and the Night Elves are attacking us because its their sacred woods. The only time the Horde and the Alliance started to join forces as unity, was against the Lich king, even probably on the Sunwell Patch, and when WoTLK started the alliance and Horde made treats, peace treat, economy treat and war effort treats.
AND GUESS WHAT after the defeat of the Lich King THE NIGHT ELVES DECIDED WE ARE NO LONGER GIVING WOOD TO THE HORDE, PEACE TREAT ITS OVER, and i am not inventing this, its on the novels and the lore on Cataclysm.
The Forsaken for the other hands even tho they are Lordaereans, the ALLIANCE IN GENERAL never accepted them as rightfull owners of Lordaeron, thats why they seek help on the Horde and the Taurens because of the constant skirmishes from the Silver Hand, the scarlet crusade and Southern Alliance warriors(Tarren mill, Arathi and the Dwarfs of Loch Modan and Wetlands)
BUT as my knowledge of the Horde questlines, i have never seing the Alliance saying we are looking to live along side Orcs and Trolls peacefully. Or are you specting the Orcs to live without wood, food or just returning to Draenor to let the Humans and Elves again live in peace and harmony? alone in the world.
Thrall literally (as repeated by Garrosh) let Human Warlocks to Summon this monsters, demons, cultits that tried to bring down the Hour of Twilight, Thralls always wanted peace, but at the cost of the people of Orgrimmar starving. Mud huts its not just a meme, its how they live, up untill this day. And yes there are a lot of NPCs that feel that way, even ones on Dalaran. And we can go beyond that of every decision that Thrall took that was worse for the Horde.
Sylvannas knows this, and she uses this "actions" and things that the alliance are going to do to the Horde, if they Win. Thats why she is not like Garrosh, she is not a warmonger, she is making the people of the cities to be at her side, probably we dont see it on the game, yet.
Last edited by Kemsa; 2019-05-17 at 06:03 AM.
You're wrong about pretty much everything.
1. The Northwatch forces quests aren't 15 years old, they're from Cata, after Wrathgate and Garrosh. Prior to that it was Centaur planning to hit Razor Hill.
2. Again, the Night Elves cut off wood because of a mix of Twilight's Hammer false flagging the Horde and then Garrosh making it worse.
3. I mean you might have a point if not for quests like this https://wow.gamepedia.com/Elixir_of_Agony
4. All the alliance quests are about how they mind their own business until the Horde comes messing with them. Don't get me wrong I think it's bullshit but no Alliance quest addresses how they were aggressors in Bael Modan or Mulgore digsite or the guys at Tiragarde.
5. Thrall had nothing to do with Human warlocks, what are you talking about?
The Cataclysm caused the starving.
What are you talking about with dalaran?
ALSO Sylvanas LITERALLY noted she wanted to start the war in the BTS story and Novellas to get to Stormwind.
Don't get me wrong, I think Blizz is going to Kerridan her, but don't pretend it's anything other than bad writing.
Twas brillig
you are right they were centaurs wow, then why there were humans at the fareast?.
And the warlocks its about how Thralls wasnt proactive against territory tresspassing.
I also think they are going to "redeem her" in some way and probably the outrage its going to be big. But being honest a full peace between Horde and Alliance should start taking the example of the Hearthstone tavern. And probably a third faction can solve this problem too.
Thrall allowed Jaina to move her forces up to the barrens, because of the friendship they made during the Third War. Lore wise, there was never any real tension going on during that time between them. If anything, the only reason you killed people there was so that you could just kill Alliance guys as a Hordie.
However, during the Cataclysm, Garrosh wanted to push the Alliance back from the Barrens, because he thought that peace between the Horde and the Alliance was petty as fuck, hence why the tension went as big as it did.
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Sylvanas shouldn't be "redeemed". She should just die. She literally finished her purpose during Wrath.
When they said they put Christie Golden on the writing team, I was genuinely excited as despite liking Legion I thought the plot was a bit hit n miss. To see it fall so far was a genuine surprise to me. Warcraft could've been grand fantasy that rivaled even Tolkien, but decided to go for shock value and "coolness" rather than complex, grounded storytelling that you can immerse yourself in.
No, they didn't. They broke it over Wrathgate. Even though the peace were already trying to make peace. Which they needed to do because previously Alliance declared war over Wrathgate. Because Night Elves are schizophrenic like that.
Happens long after the initial hostilities in Hillsbrad broke out. And since Anduin had to apologize to Sylvanas for the treatment of Forsaken envoys sent to Alliance, the question who initiated those hostilities leans a bit towards the Alliance.
And aside from Ashenvale, where Horde is the one initiating things, all Horde quests are about situations were the aggressor isn't known for sure, or ones where the aggressor is the Alliance (and those cases outnumber the Horde starting shit in Ashenvale).
No it didn't. Thrall deliberately settling Orcs in a barren shithole caused it. The situation of the Orcs was disheartening even in Garrosh's short story and it takes place prior to Cataclysm.
She also noted there would be no war if Varian was still in charge of the Alliance, rather than his hypocritical spawn.
Aside from Theramore's soldiers killing Horde members in Dustwallow or capturing them in Dustwallow and Northwatch.
The metaphor was pretty awful, because as I just pointed out, your context of muh Anduin changes nothing. And deify Anduin's glorious "peace" of Alliance attacking the Horde with complete impunity all you want, but Sylvanas herself said in one of her internal monologues that there'd be no war if Varian was still in charge of the Alliance, flat out proving you wrong on how Anduin is the best bet for anything. Because unlike the hypocritical whelp Anduin, Varian actually managed his people and didn't let them walk all over him with no repercussions. Because Anduin giving Genn and Rogers a stern talking is no repercussions. It's not even a slap on the wrist.
What gauntlet throwdown? Sylvanas explicitly made no moves against the Alliance during the Gathering and as Anduin himself acknowledged, the whole situation made Alliance look bad, not Sylvanas. Not that he'd be justified in violating Horde territory even if things were shifted around. And as pointed above, she wanted war only because the leadership of the Alliance changed from actually respectable Varian to thefailure that is Anduin.
Anduin may justify his idiocy to himself and his kowtowing lackeys in whatever way he wants. Doesn't change the fact that explicitly writing "lel, don't mistake my intentions for an attempt at peace" is a complete diplomatic faux pas at the very least. If he didn't want to spook Sylvanas, all he needed to do was not mention attempts at peace in any context whatsoever. And you need to bend over backwards and then inwards to frame something that's explicitly not an attempt at peace into an attempt at peace.
I don't think you understood it but it is also somewhat beside the point - I sometimes forget to consider my audience, I suppose. Your reliance on hyperbole makes it difficult to actually have a reasoned discussion, screeching "muh Anduin" as a form of riposte doesn't lend itself to a rational response, much less a coherent one. Sylvanas talking about how there wouldn't be a war if Varian were still in High King strikes me as more about her unwillingness to attack a prepared and wary opponent as opposed to one whose naivete and peace-loving nature makes them unprepared for the kind of war she plans to perpetrate. As for Genn and Rogers' punishment, I agree it was rather ineffectual, but that is also in keeping with Anduin's personality and his stated naivete - and it still stands to show that they acted without his sanction or else they wouldn't have even got that dressing down.
Killing the Desolate Council, and especially Elsie Benton, with whom Anduin had some level of rapport and even friendliness toward despite her being Forsaken and him being Human. You've read "Before the Storm," yes? Anduin doesn't react positively to Sylvanas' actions at the Gathering at all, and they conclude in his mind that Sylvanas cannot be reasoned with and will never be part of a peace process between the Horde and Alliance. Sylvanas avoided dirtying her hand at the Gathering, sure, but she's pretty far from coming away smelling like a rose. It's not a coincidence that Sylvanas just so happens to liquidate a coalition in her own ranks that subtly opposed her, all under the guise of killing "traitors" (most of whom were not traitors at all as Nathanos helpfully points out).
That implies that his missive somehow "spooked" Sylvanas, which I heartily doubt (and would be shocked if you didn't). He wasn't extending an olive branch to Sylvanas, he was extending one to her people - a tactic commonly called outreach. If you can sway a nation's people to your cause, their leader may well find themselves forced to follow. It doesn't work because he doesn't fully understand Sylvanas, as well as what she's capable of, but it's an attempt all the same.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Which isn't 'new' Garrosh also started a similar war with the Alliance, and Sylvanas' plans clearly haven't been working out very well either.
And if one has a 'ends justify the means' approach, ie 'wiping out the alliance is justified because then we can live in peace' that requires the ends sought to actually be achieved, if Sylvanas fails in meeting those ends then her means were not justified by them. Not to mention that while yes they have fought the Alliance a lot, there has been MORE fighting with third party threats than the Alliance all in all. And we're not even making it to the end of BFA before both factions end up working together against Azshara. Which further undermines this sort of point.
Last edited by Florena; 2019-05-17 at 03:58 PM.