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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    If you think her waging war against Gilneas wasn't her being forced, you're wrong. She was just making the best with a bad hand, which was Garrosh telling her to take out Gilneas. She would've been happy leaving them behind their wall to rot if she could.
    Chronicles literally made her eager
    Twas brillig

  2. #122
    Old God Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Which doesn't make sense, again.

    If someone covered in blood carrying a chainsaw was running at you screaming "I'M GOING TO CUT EVERYONE IN HALF"
    And another person, a trusted friend who has helped you time and time again, grabs your hand and says "I know the way out, follow me!"
    It absolutely would never make sense for you to say "Y'know, last time you said that, I broke my leg when I tripped - I think I'll test the waters with the chainsaw guy."

    Yes, even from an NPC perspective, this makes absolutely no sense.
    I legit rofl'd at this, I can't stop laughing. It is absolutely worthy sig material So true!

    More on topic, I want some of the !@#& these folks from Blizzard are smoking. Looks like some strong, really strong !@#&. And quite hilarious too, but due to different reasons.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  3. #123
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    So Blizz now wants to make Sylvi the peace bringer? O.o
    She's going to consume a nice void lord then lazer beam the bad void lord. Saving the world. Then come get nathanos in a dream sequence and disappear.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    Anduin: Hey, want peace?

    Sylvanas: No, I want peace
    /genocides people

    Anduin: Dude, wat

    Sylvanas: REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
    Piece, peace. Easily mixed up!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    A long term peaceful solution by utterly annihilating the enemy? Given the mechanics of the game there's no way she can actually succeed at it.

    We've seen no sign of this peace on the horizon. Just Sylvanas out to crush the Alliance for good, destroying hope wherever she finds it, whether in the Horde or Alliance, and blighting the remnants for good measure so we can't use all that nice new Darkshore ore, lumber, and beachside real estate.

    I was hoping this would provide more insight to where Sylvanas's story is headed but I'm just not seeing it. I still have no idea how they can continue what we are seeing with it ending in anything other than the players who chose loyalist getting executed and having their characters deleted.
    Issue is that was her initial plan by taking teldrassil hostage. Create a wedge and force peace. But then she caught feelings and set fire to hippie land.
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Heldenmaid View Post
    [/I]
    Morgan:Put yourself in the shoes of someone in the Horde. They’ve known nothing but conflict for over 20 years. They believe that Sylvanas is the person who will bring an end to this. She’s the one who can unite the Horde in ways it’s never been before. You can see how people would want that. They might think, “I would like to know peace, please. Sylvanas will get us there.” The people know what Baine and Saurfang and Thrall lead to -- it’s just the same conflict they’ve seen. Sylvanas is bringing something no one’s ever brought before. So it’s interesting to see different sides of that. She has a plan.”

    Hahaha, how about you put yourself in the shoes of the nelves, they have known nothing but humiliation by WoW devs for over a decade...

    Also, nobody ever suspected Sylvanas to do anything for the good of the Horde... seriously... what an asspull.
    Last edited by Eggroll; 2019-05-17 at 04:53 AM.


  5. #125
    You gonna see Thrall,Saurfang and Rexxar kill that bitch.

  6. #126
    Mechagnome Kemsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    You missed the entire point of my post. The entire point of Thrall's horde was to be peaceful, different from the Old savage Horde. And, prior to Garrosh, they were succeeding. The Alliance and the Horde teamed up against a lot of shit during Classic, they fought for a bit but then teamed up again in TBC, and during Wrath, despite the growing conflict, the Horde and the Alliance were on equal terms with each-other in the end and managed to destroy the Lich King. This was the closest they ever went to towards peace, and it was working. Hell, in the WoW Comic, you see Thrall and co attempt to make peace negotiations with the Alliance.

    So, I don't see why NPC's from the cities and co would think Sylvanas far better than Thrall and the others, when in reality she's always been the shadiest Horde bitch in the seven seas.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The Burning Legion was right all along.

    - - - Updated - - -



    You could blame Sargeras for the beginning of the war since he stabbed Azeroth to begin with.
    Holy molly how much wrong can you get there.

    Nowhere near the Horde and the Alliance got "peace" Kultirans from Theramore were still attacking the Horde in vanilla, even they teamup with the Alliance to make plans to attack Razor Hills (FUCKING 15 YEAR OLD QUESTS) from that Ashenvale and Ashara questlines for the Horde its "we need wood and food to survive in Orgrimmar and the Night Elves are attacking us because its their sacred woods. The only time the Horde and the Alliance started to join forces as unity, was against the Lich king, even probably on the Sunwell Patch, and when WoTLK started the alliance and Horde made treats, peace treat, economy treat and war effort treats.

    AND GUESS WHAT after the defeat of the Lich King THE NIGHT ELVES DECIDED WE ARE NO LONGER GIVING WOOD TO THE HORDE, PEACE TREAT ITS OVER, and i am not inventing this, its on the novels and the lore on Cataclysm.

    The Forsaken for the other hands even tho they are Lordaereans, the ALLIANCE IN GENERAL never accepted them as rightfull owners of Lordaeron, thats why they seek help on the Horde and the Taurens because of the constant skirmishes from the Silver Hand, the scarlet crusade and Southern Alliance warriors(Tarren mill, Arathi and the Dwarfs of Loch Modan and Wetlands)

    BUT as my knowledge of the Horde questlines, i have never seing the Alliance saying we are looking to live along side Orcs and Trolls peacefully. Or are you specting the Orcs to live without wood, food or just returning to Draenor to let the Humans and Elves again live in peace and harmony? alone in the world.

    Thrall literally (as repeated by Garrosh) let Human Warlocks to Summon this monsters, demons, cultits that tried to bring down the Hour of Twilight, Thralls always wanted peace, but at the cost of the people of Orgrimmar starving. Mud huts its not just a meme, its how they live, up untill this day. And yes there are a lot of NPCs that feel that way, even ones on Dalaran. And we can go beyond that of every decision that Thrall took that was worse for the Horde.

    Sylvannas knows this, and she uses this "actions" and things that the alliance are going to do to the Horde, if they Win. Thats why she is not like Garrosh, she is not a warmonger, she is making the people of the cities to be at her side, probably we dont see it on the game, yet.
    Last edited by Kemsa; 2019-05-17 at 06:03 AM.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Kemsa View Post
    Holy molly how much wrong can you get there.

    Nowhere near the Horde and the Alliance got "peace" Kultirans from Theramore were still attacking the Horde in vanilla, even they teamup with the Alliance to make plans to attack Razor Hills (FUCKING 15 YEAR OLD QUESTS) from that Ashenvale and Ashara questlines for the Horde its "we need wood and food to survive in Orgrimmar and the Night Elves are attacking us because its their sacred woods. The only time the Horde and the Alliance started to join forces as unity, was against the Lich king, even probably on the Sunwell Patch, and when WoTLK started the alliance and Horde made treats, peace treat, economy treat and war effort treats.

    AND GUESS WHAT after the defeat of the Lich King THE NIGHT ELVES DECIDED WE ARE NO LONGER GIVING WOOD TO THE HORDE, PEACE TREAT ITS OVER, and i am not inventing this, its on the novels and the lore on Cataclysm.

    The Forsaken for the other hands even tho they are Lordaereans, the ALLIANCE IN GENERAL never accepted them as rightfull owners of Lordaeron, thats why they seek help on the Horde and the Taurens because of the constant skirmishes from the Silver Hand, the scarlet crusade and Southern Alliance warriors(Tarren mill, Arathi and the Dwarfs of Loch Modan and Wetlands)

    BUT as my knowledge of the Horde questlines, i have never seing the Alliance saying we are looking to live along side Orcs and Trolls peacefully. Or are you specting the Orcs to live without wood, food or just returning to Draenor to let the Humans and Elves again live in peace and harmony? alone in the world.

    Thrall literally (as repeated by Garrosh) let Human Warlocks to Summon this monsters, demons, cultits that tried to bring down the Hour of Twilight, Thralls always wanted peace, but at the cost of the people of Orgrimmar starving. Mud huts its not just a meme, its how they live, up untill this day. And yes there are a lot of NPCs that feel that way, even ones on Dalaran. And we can go beyond that of every decision that Thrall took that was worse for the Horde.

    Sylvannas knows this, and she uses this "actions" and things that the alliance are going to do to the Horde, if they Win. Thats why she is not like Garrosh, she is not a warmonger, she is making the people of the cities to be at her side, probably we dont see it on the game, yet.
    You're wrong about pretty much everything.

    1. The Northwatch forces quests aren't 15 years old, they're from Cata, after Wrathgate and Garrosh. Prior to that it was Centaur planning to hit Razor Hill.

    2. Again, the Night Elves cut off wood because of a mix of Twilight's Hammer false flagging the Horde and then Garrosh making it worse.

    3. I mean you might have a point if not for quests like this https://wow.gamepedia.com/Elixir_of_Agony

    4. All the alliance quests are about how they mind their own business until the Horde comes messing with them. Don't get me wrong I think it's bullshit but no Alliance quest addresses how they were aggressors in Bael Modan or Mulgore digsite or the guys at Tiragarde.

    5. Thrall had nothing to do with Human warlocks, what are you talking about?

    The Cataclysm caused the starving.

    What are you talking about with dalaran?

    ALSO Sylvanas LITERALLY noted she wanted to start the war in the BTS story and Novellas to get to Stormwind.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Blizz is going to Kerridan her, but don't pretend it's anything other than bad writing.
    Twas brillig

  8. #128
    Mechagnome Kemsa's Avatar
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    you are right they were centaurs wow, then why there were humans at the fareast?.

    And the warlocks its about how Thralls wasnt proactive against territory tresspassing.

    I also think they are going to "redeem her" in some way and probably the outrage its going to be big. But being honest a full peace between Horde and Alliance should start taking the example of the Hearthstone tavern. And probably a third faction can solve this problem too.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Kemsa View Post
    you are right they were centaurs wow, then why there were humans at the fareast?.

    And the warlocks its about how Thralls wasnt proactive against territory tresspassing.

    I also think they are going to "redeem her" in some way and probably the outrage its going to be big. But being honest a full peace between Horde and Alliance should start taking the example of the Hearthstone tavern. And probably a third faction can solve this problem too.
    Thrall allowed Jaina to move her forces up to the barrens, because of the friendship they made during the Third War. Lore wise, there was never any real tension going on during that time between them. If anything, the only reason you killed people there was so that you could just kill Alliance guys as a Hordie.

    However, during the Cataclysm, Garrosh wanted to push the Alliance back from the Barrens, because he thought that peace between the Horde and the Alliance was petty as fuck, hence why the tension went as big as it did.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sylvanas shouldn't be "redeemed". She should just die. She literally finished her purpose during Wrath.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Shampro View Post
    Taking down Stormwind is starting to sound a lot more plausible, and I'm here for it. Ohhh it'd be so delicious. If that's the last thing she does before they retire her, I'll accept this dogshit of an expansion just a tiny bit more.
    That'd be greatly understated.

  11. #131
    Bloodsail Admiral Xykotic's Avatar
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    When they said they put Christie Golden on the writing team, I was genuinely excited as despite liking Legion I thought the plot was a bit hit n miss. To see it fall so far was a genuine surprise to me. Warcraft could've been grand fantasy that rivaled even Tolkien, but decided to go for shock value and "coolness" rather than complex, grounded storytelling that you can immerse yourself in.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    2. Again, the Night Elves cut off wood because of a mix of Twilight's Hammer false flagging the Horde and then Garrosh making it worse.
    No, they didn't. They broke it over Wrathgate. Even though the peace were already trying to make peace. Which they needed to do because previously Alliance declared war over Wrathgate. Because Night Elves are schizophrenic like that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    3. I mean you might have a point if not for quests like this https://wow.gamepedia.com/Elixir_of_Agony
    Happens long after the initial hostilities in Hillsbrad broke out. And since Anduin had to apologize to Sylvanas for the treatment of Forsaken envoys sent to Alliance, the question who initiated those hostilities leans a bit towards the Alliance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    4. All the alliance quests are about how they mind their own business until the Horde comes messing with them. Don't get me wrong I think it's bullshit but no Alliance quest addresses how they were aggressors in Bael Modan or Mulgore digsite or the guys at Tiragarde.
    And aside from Ashenvale, where Horde is the one initiating things, all Horde quests are about situations were the aggressor isn't known for sure, or ones where the aggressor is the Alliance (and those cases outnumber the Horde starting shit in Ashenvale).


    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    The Cataclysm caused the starving.
    No it didn't. Thrall deliberately settling Orcs in a barren shithole caused it. The situation of the Orcs was disheartening even in Garrosh's short story and it takes place prior to Cataclysm.


    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    ALSO Sylvanas LITERALLY noted she wanted to start the war in the BTS story and Novellas to get to Stormwind.
    She also noted there would be no war if Varian was still in charge of the Alliance, rather than his hypocritical spawn.


    Quote Originally Posted by ArgusTheUnmaker View Post
    Thrall allowed Jaina to move her forces up to the barrens, because of the friendship they made during the Third War. Lore wise, there was never any real tension going on during that time between them. If anything, the only reason you killed people there was so that you could just kill Alliance guys as a Hordie.
    Aside from Theramore's soldiers killing Horde members in Dustwallow or capturing them in Dustwallow and Northwatch.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The metaphor was pretty clear - you were offering two choices without necessary context, when the answer was sort of neither. When Genn stormed off to Stormheim Varian was newly dead and Anduin newly crowned, it was a tumultuous time in which Anduin had yet to secure his own backing, much less that of his people. He certainly didn't order Genn to go off half-cocked, just the opposite really, and he chastises both Genn and Rogers in "Before the Storm" for their presumption. I'm not even claiming that Anduin has made no mistakes before the Blood War kicked off, merely that his tenure as High King of the Alliance is really the best the Horde could ask for if their minds were actually on peace.
    The metaphor was pretty awful, because as I just pointed out, your context of muh Anduin changes nothing. And deify Anduin's glorious "peace" of Alliance attacking the Horde with complete impunity all you want, but Sylvanas herself said in one of her internal monologues that there'd be no war if Varian was still in charge of the Alliance, flat out proving you wrong on how Anduin is the best bet for anything. Because unlike the hypocritical whelp Anduin, Varian actually managed his people and didn't let them walk all over him with no repercussions. Because Anduin giving Genn and Rogers a stern talking is no repercussions. It's not even a slap on the wrist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Anduin didn't start moving against Sylvanas in this fashion until after her actions at the Gathering, which was pretty much a gauntlet thrown down. Not to say she wasn't without cause, either; but that pretty conclusively demonstrated her aim was singularly not peace (and we know that it wasn't from her monologues as well). Sylvanas didn't need a casus belli at all, really; her argument for war was made without any kind of reference to the Alliance's spy-network. War was always her objective, as we're shown from the very first chapters of "Before the Storm."
    What gauntlet throwdown? Sylvanas explicitly made no moves against the Alliance during the Gathering and as Anduin himself acknowledged, the whole situation made Alliance look bad, not Sylvanas. Not that he'd be justified in violating Horde territory even if things were shifted around. And as pointed above, she wanted war only because the leadership of the Alliance changed from actually respectable Varian to thefailure that is Anduin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Also, Anduin himself belies those words with what he says about the Gathering to Calia and Alonsus. He didn't want Sylvanas to take it as a formal overture, probably knowing full well she'd respond negatively - but he still considered a soft overture nonetheless, a way to bridge the gap between the Forsaken and Humanity. Anduin's political framing aside it was still an attempt at peace.
    Anduin may justify his idiocy to himself and his kowtowing lackeys in whatever way he wants. Doesn't change the fact that explicitly writing "lel, don't mistake my intentions for an attempt at peace" is a complete diplomatic faux pas at the very least. If he didn't want to spook Sylvanas, all he needed to do was not mention attempts at peace in any context whatsoever. And you need to bend over backwards and then inwards to frame something that's explicitly not an attempt at peace into an attempt at peace.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  13. #133
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    The metaphor was pretty awful, because as I just pointed out, your context of muh Anduin changes nothing. And deify Anduin's glorious "peace" of Alliance attacking the Horde with complete impunity all you want, but Sylvanas herself said in one of her internal monologues that there'd be no war if Varian was still in charge of the Alliance, flat out proving you wrong on how Anduin is the best bet for anything. Because unlike the hypocritical whelp Anduin, Varian actually managed his people and didn't let them walk all over him with no repercussions. Because Anduin giving Genn and Rogers a stern talking is no repercussions. It's not even a slap on the wrist.
    I don't think you understood it but it is also somewhat beside the point - I sometimes forget to consider my audience, I suppose. Your reliance on hyperbole makes it difficult to actually have a reasoned discussion, screeching "muh Anduin" as a form of riposte doesn't lend itself to a rational response, much less a coherent one. Sylvanas talking about how there wouldn't be a war if Varian were still in High King strikes me as more about her unwillingness to attack a prepared and wary opponent as opposed to one whose naivete and peace-loving nature makes them unprepared for the kind of war she plans to perpetrate. As for Genn and Rogers' punishment, I agree it was rather ineffectual, but that is also in keeping with Anduin's personality and his stated naivete - and it still stands to show that they acted without his sanction or else they wouldn't have even got that dressing down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    What gauntlet throwdown? Sylvanas explicitly made no moves against the Alliance during the Gathering and as Anduin himself acknowledged, the whole situation made Alliance look bad, not Sylvanas. Not that he'd be justified in violating Horde territory even if things were shifted around. And as pointed above, she wanted war only because the leadership of the Alliance changed from actually respectable Varian to thefailure that is Anduin.
    Killing the Desolate Council, and especially Elsie Benton, with whom Anduin had some level of rapport and even friendliness toward despite her being Forsaken and him being Human. You've read "Before the Storm," yes? Anduin doesn't react positively to Sylvanas' actions at the Gathering at all, and they conclude in his mind that Sylvanas cannot be reasoned with and will never be part of a peace process between the Horde and Alliance. Sylvanas avoided dirtying her hand at the Gathering, sure, but she's pretty far from coming away smelling like a rose. It's not a coincidence that Sylvanas just so happens to liquidate a coalition in her own ranks that subtly opposed her, all under the guise of killing "traitors" (most of whom were not traitors at all as Nathanos helpfully points out).

    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Anduin may justify his idiocy to himself and his kowtowing lackeys in whatever way he wants. Doesn't change the fact that explicitly writing "lel, don't mistake my intentions for an attempt at peace" is a complete diplomatic faux pas at the very least. If he didn't want to spook Sylvanas, all he needed to do was not mention attempts at peace in any context whatsoever. And you need to bend over backwards and then inwards to frame something that's explicitly not an attempt at peace into an attempt at peace.
    That implies that his missive somehow "spooked" Sylvanas, which I heartily doubt (and would be shocked if you didn't). He wasn't extending an olive branch to Sylvanas, he was extending one to her people - a tactic commonly called outreach. If you can sway a nation's people to your cause, their leader may well find themselves forced to follow. It doesn't work because he doesn't fully understand Sylvanas, as well as what she's capable of, but it's an attempt all the same.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  14. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    What is this horse**** about Sylvans bringing something new?

    She's brought MORE WAR with the SAME ENEMY the horde has fought so many times. Sylvanas has brought NOTHING NEW. Oh sure, maybe if the war of thorns had gone according to play she might have put the horde in a position to negotiate peace from a position of power or something, but all she's actually brought is MORE OF THE SAME right after the Legion invasion.

    Whether you support Sylvanas or not I have a hard time seeing what 'new' approach she's brought.

    Also, RIP night elves. I'm not even mad at this point. I'm just numb to it.
    They are literally saying she will end war by making every member of the Alliance dead.

  15. #135
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Chronicles literally made her eager
    I'm going to take this out of context, because it amuses me.

  16. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by delus View Post
    They are literally saying she will end war by making every member of the Alliance dead.
    Which isn't 'new' Garrosh also started a similar war with the Alliance, and Sylvanas' plans clearly haven't been working out very well either.

    And if one has a 'ends justify the means' approach, ie 'wiping out the alliance is justified because then we can live in peace' that requires the ends sought to actually be achieved, if Sylvanas fails in meeting those ends then her means were not justified by them. Not to mention that while yes they have fought the Alliance a lot, there has been MORE fighting with third party threats than the Alliance all in all. And we're not even making it to the end of BFA before both factions end up working together against Azshara. Which further undermines this sort of point.
    Last edited by Florena; 2019-05-17 at 03:58 PM.

  17. #137
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright-Flower View Post
    Which isn't 'new' Garrosh also started a similar war with the Alliance, and Sylvanas' plans clearly haven't been working out very well either.
    but Garrosh didn't have boobs

  18. #138
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    but Garrosh didn't have boobs
    Bam, that means this xpac isn't MoP 2.0!



    Expectations subverted successfully.
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  19. #139
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    Bam, that means this xpac isn't MoP 2.0!



    Expectations subverted successfully.
    saurfang also is not a troll

    don't know how anyone could think its mop2.0

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    No, they didn't. They broke it over Wrathgate. Even though the peace were already trying to make peace. Which they needed to do because previously Alliance declared war over Wrathgate. Because Night Elves are schizophrenic like that.
    I mean either way, the destruction of peace was Sylvana's fault for letting Wrathgate happen and not having a firmer hand on her pet dreadlord and the Forsaken.
    Twas brillig

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