Beta Feedback so far.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

I don't understand this statement. Why are we asking "How far off from fake data are we?"

Because some people didn't want Vanilla they wanted legal Nostralius.



Honestly the numbers seem ballpark enough that, bugs and outliers aside, Blizz did a good job on this.

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I think it had more to do with the new character models not working with the old gear skins. I may be wrong about that though.

They work with old gear skins. We can still wear Vanilla gear on live. Just some of them don't work well.

Honestly they already passed on authentic graphics by giving us the option for Live lighting, water, ground clutter. Don't see the issue of having a toggle for HD models, besides maybe extra time investment in setting up what models to swap.

[Castration]

so far so good, just hit level 15 this morning.

[Trend]

Please show me where I'm contradicting what private server developers have said? I get the feeling from your posts that you're not a theorycrafter (nor do you know anything about private server development or bug fixing), that you've not delved into that world where developers and addon creators/theorycrafters have always had a back and forth relationship. Or do you believe that all theorycrafting is based on "purely made up guesswork"?

The majority of theorycrafting stuff is reverse engineered in game, as in they figure out the formula from the ingame numbers themselves and it gets documented, tested and confirmed. A lot of it is a two way street between players and blizzard developers too. I think that I have to explain this means you're outside the theorycrafting community and you're going to play hardball asking for me to dig up something to please you, which I'm obviously not going to do.

If you want to do your own research you would understand why these "Oh its a private server so it must be wrong" are just as bad (if not worse than) those saying "it's a vanilla private server so it must be right".

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Normalization
https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Hit
https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Spirit
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Armor

Many sources list this basic information, nobody is needing to "guess" the basics that have been well documented and known since Vanilla, with every change and variation also documented and understood.


Edit : And you could for example take those numbers from Vanilla, dump it into a spreadsheet to say calculate armor/damage reduction and then apply the results of those numbers and compare to a private server and see "oh my, they are correct".. Or you could swing at a boss on a private server and collect data, then use the armor formula combine with the ability formulas and your characters stats and calculate accurately the armor of that boss based on the damage dealt, and compare back to vanilla numbers and find that your vanillla numbers and vanilla formulas are correct.

Theorycrafting works, nobody is making shit up out of thin air with the basics.

Yeah, nothing server-side documented, just like I said.

[Sentynel]

The real question is how far all these values are from private servers.
Lets be honest. We have 14 years of experience on private server data and that was our current bet.
All those influencers that got key are ps junkies and they have tested things there pretty extensively.
We know ps didnt have all the numbers right.
So the deal is how far off were the values of the most bliz-like private servers, from the actual true values of vanilla (now tested in Beta).

There is no real question / deal here. I don't understand why any of this should have any importance.

Blizzard has the correct data. Private server values are incorrect. End of debate.

If people don't like it they can go back to the cesspit private servers they came from.

[Bigbazz]

Yeah, nothing server-side documented, just like I said.

You're perverting the discussion just to attempt to not be wrong here though. The formulas are known, 100% correct and documented and you're claiming they are "making it all up" as if they are just guessing. Mana/health regen and spirit conversions, attack power normalisation, ability formulas, armor, spells, the hit table etc are all 100% known quantities.

None of these things are guess work or made up as they go along, because it's all known and documented. If they were incorrect on a private server you'd be able to identify it immediately with a simple calculation, which is also how people were able to prove so many things were incorrect from the Classic demo. You don't need the server side code to know if something is properly replicated, you only need to cross reference numbers and formulas.

Scripting and more complex matters is where private servers struggle, and I have a fair bit of experience with that too from running a theorycrafting project on a certain popular TBC private realm and reporting and contributing to highlighting many of these errors myself... Those issues are found and fixed precisely because we don't need to rely on "making shit up" or "guess work" for the majority of things.

[RobertMugabe]

Scripting and more complex matters is where private servers struggle, and I have a fair bit of experience with that too from running a theorycrafting project on a certain popular TBC private realm and reporting and contributing to highlighting many of these errors myself... Those issues are found and fixed precisely because we don't need to rely on "making shit up" or "guess work" for the majority of things.

Actually scripting is the easiest part about core development ^^

[Bigbazz]

Actually scripting is the easiest part about core development ^^

That's why it's the thing they constantly struggle to achieve, more so than anything else? Sure sounds like it.

[Belloc]

If people don't like it they can go back to the cesspit private servers they came from.

I imagine that a good deal of them will, once they realize how brutal Classic was. Why pay for the poorly-balanced grindfest of Classic when you can play on numbers-adjusted private servers for free?

[Maudib]

Damn! I m only trying to get some insight of what awaits us in Classic! PS data is our only recent reference point we have!

Damn Beta key!

Watch the streams... you get a really good feel for what's in store for us. "Harder" than Private Servers meaning more challenging. Takes longer to level. Looking like 10 hours or so more to 30 than PServers.

Green drops are more scarce. As are any bag drops. Misc things like the whelps in Wetlands have armor whereas in PServers they were a target of warriors to level grind because they had no armor)

[Aleks0410]

Gonna steal this thread for a quick question: Are you able to queue up spells like on retail? I believe the feature is called "custom lag tolerance"

[Trend]

You're perverting the discussion just to attempt to not be wrong here though. The formulas are known, 100% correct and documented and you're claiming they are "making it all up" as if they are just guessing. Mana/health regen and spirit conversions, attack power normalisation, ability formulas, armor, spells, the hit table etc are all 100% known quantities.

None of these things are guess work or made up as they go along, because it's all known and documented. If they were incorrect on a private server you'd be able to identify it immediately with a simple calculation, which is also how people were able to prove so many things were incorrect from the Classic demo. You don't need the server side code to know if something is properly replicated, you only need to cross reference numbers and formulas.

Scripting and more complex matters is where private servers struggle, and I have a fair bit of experience with that too from running a theorycrafting project on a certain popular TBC private realm and reporting and contributing to highlighting many of these errors myself... Those issues are found and fixed precisely because we don't need to rely on "making shit up" or "guess work" for the majority of things.

You're full of shit. There was a tremendous amount of guesswork done to set up pirate servers. Not only that but by the time they were doing it the real WoW wasn't Vanilla anymore so they couldn't even do side by side comps. You can read the interviews with the people involved and they said what I'm saying, not what you're saying.

And not only are you full of shit, your ability with logic is null. "You don't need the server side code to know if something is properly replicated, you only need to cross reference numbers and formulas." That does not make any sense at all. If you don't have server side code it is impossible to cross reference numbers and formulas ... because you don't have them.

I think maybe the problem is that you just don't understand how many things there are that the client doesn't know about and relies on the server side info as the source of truth, because they didn't make WoW to be client controlled like D2. But whatever, feel free to keep thinking the pirates without source code got it right and Blizzard is wrong. I don't give two fucks.

[Molis]

I can't help but roll my eyes at the idiots for thinking classic was going to be like pservers who were usually notoriously off with their numbers because they had to guess. Blizz has the numbers from vanilla so their math isn't wrong, its just people remembering things wrong given vanilla was 15yrs ago now

just goes to show that even when blizz tries their best to give us what we want there is still a buttload of people out there bitching that have zero actual clue as to what they're talking about

im not gonna watch anyone stream beta, i'm gonna play it when it comes out and only then will i decide if its a game that's worth my time/money

I have been saying this since day one. Private Server players are disingenuous about Classic WoW.

They will not pay the sub
They will not like the real numbers
They will suddenly realize a Pally can not tank, and a Shaman can not DPS

Blizzard needs to get new players in the mix, or just 10% of the Wrath sub base.

[sunwrathmother]

There is no real question / deal here. I don't understand why any of this should have any importance.

Blizzard has the correct data. Private server values are incorrect. End of debate.

If people don't like it they can go back to the cesspit private servers they came from.

1.If you dont understand the importance of my question, you are nothing but a filthy casual.

2.We know bliz has the correct data and PS dont. You dont even bothered to read the post.

3. End of debate? What debate? You are one of those people that dont use any brain cells while reading right?

4. Classic fans in private servers were those that brought Classic back to life in the first place!!! They WILL play the game even if its completely different than PSs!

[Sentynel]

1.If you dont understand the importance of my question, you are nothing but a filthy casual.

2.We know bliz has the correct data and PS dont. You dont even bothered to read the post.

3. End of debate? What debate? You are one of those people that dont use any brain cells while reading right?

4. Classic fans in private servers were those that brought Classic back to life in the first place!!! They WILL play the game even if its completely different than PSs!

Read my quoted post?

Also, Classic is brought to life by retail players' money. PServer turds contributed exactly zero dollars to this project.

[bloomy]

so far it looks great, the only annoying thing about beta so far is hearing all the kids saying things are broken or wrong because they don't line up with how private servers are... it's as if they don't want to accept the fact that private servers got it wrong on just about every aspect of the game. it was still a fun mod that came close, but it was far enough off to causes some issues for the people who have been playing private servers for a while. those people need to adjust to classic, classic isn't going to change to accommodate them because their private server was broken.

[RobertMugabe]

That's why it's the thing they constantly struggle to achieve, more so than anything else? Sure sounds like it.

No it's core bugs and the entire framework that they constantly struggle with. Nostalrius (and it's successor) constantly had issues with threading, spells (usually associated with bad scripting, however that's a core component), movement, events, wrong values etc.

Scripting is pretty straight forward. Basically after you've done your research it's just a step by step implementation and when there are bugs they are usually small mistakes, like when the Nightmare Dragons wouldn't spawn, because an integer value that checks how many of them are alive could go below 0 (if the value is at 0 then the spawntimer will start) and basically a simple check was missing.

Scripting is like 90% research, 10% implementation

[Razzako]

A lot lower compared to what?

Before you start to make any comparisons you need to recognize that blizzard has a reference 1.12 client with all the correct values, while bugs can and will pop up from integrating that data into WoW's modern code reader lets not pretend for a second that you should be comparing anything to private servers.

The only real way to do this is looking back at videos/forums/data sheets from 2006 world of warcraft and doing comparisons, or trusting the memories of a select few who were balls deep into Wow in that era.

Having a reference 1.12 server does not mean everything related to stats is working as intended.

[Soon-TM]

Read my quoted post?

Also, Classic is brought to life by retail players' money. PServer turds contributed exactly zero dollars to this project.

This is the best part. All those Classic bashers playing the holier-than-thou card towards people playing in pservers now are paying for our enjoyment and there is nothing they can do to help it

Unless they unsubbed the very moment that Classic was announced, that is, but it looks extremely unlikely to me. Keep crying, I'm loving it.

[Trend]

This is the best part. All those Classic bashers playing the holier-than-thou card towards people playing in pservers now are paying for our enjoyment and there is nothing they can do to help it

Unless they unsubbed the very moment that Classic was announced, that is, but it looks extremely unlikely to me. Keep crying, I'm loving it.

What? I'm genuinely confused. Do you actually think opposition to pirate servers is based on the principal that people shouldn't have fun?

[Soon-TM]

What? I'm genuinely confused. Do you actually think opposition to pirate servers is based on the principal that people shouldn't have fun?

Not necessarily, but a good amount of the anti-Classic posts were (and some still are, you can spot them ITT) slightly different variations of ZOMG DEM NUSTALGIC CHEP PUNKKZ THAT BE STEALIN' FROM BLIZZ!!!!111!!one! It turns out that many of those pserver players played there simply because there was no choice, and that crowd would love to play on an official server, and Blizzard eventually realized it - instead of the name calling and finger pointing so common in certain retail fans.