1. #25881
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I saw that interview. He had a baffled look on his face "How and why did I get so stupid?"


    Was it this one? Dinklage at 68 seconds.

    The look on "He's smart but I guess not that smart" is priceless.

  2. #25882
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    Actually the only "innocent" (nicer) person of the Tarlys is the Brother.

    The Elder Father Tarly was a piece of crap.

    Or does no one remember the fact that when his 2nd son (Sam) turned 18 he told him that if Sam didn't take the black (and leave his family's home in 24 hours) he would KILL HIS OWN SON and tell everyone it was a hunting accident. Because his son was fat and wasn't a good swordsman. That's it.

    When his son showed back up with his "woman and child" - because the woman was a wildling - disowned him from the family entirely

    I just keep seeing this over and over again and its making me twitch. Elder Tarly was no Ned Stark. He was no nice figure. He was, within his own family, worse than Tyrion Lannister. I was glad to see him burn. The only loss was Sam's decent elder brother.
    Sam is Randyll Tarley's oldest son. The reason why Randyll was going to kill Sam and forced him to join the Night's Watch was because he did not want his eldest son, whom he believed to be weak and unsuitable, to inherit the lordship.

    Which is why Dany missed a great opportunity to make Sam the lord of the Reach when she was doling out lordships to people. There is no more need for the Night's Watch, so Sam should really be Lord Tarley right now.

  3. #25883
    Quote Originally Posted by Brubear View Post
    Because the Tarly's refusing to bend the knee made them truly evil people.

    Notice how she never takes prisoners and gives them a chance to reform? It's always "become my vassal or die". There's a lot of issues with how D&D wrote her slip into madness (and just wrote things in general), but lets not act like she's been consistently a righteous savior this entire time when ever since she landed in Westeros it's been pretty apparent that she's becoming more and more like her ancestors with her ruthlessness.

    Though I do agree that D&D did an awful job with her heel turn. I can definitely see how it could have been done well (and probably will be done a lot better by Martin), but the plot points have been so rushed and the writing so awful (they threw all of the internal logic that made the show what it was out the window for the rule of cool) that it made it feel so jarring.
    I'm not arguing that I can't see her going mad queen. I'm saying, with the information we were given in 70 episodes, there is not enough sufficient reason for Dany going full mad queen in the way D&D portrayed it.

    As I said earlier, I can maybe be swayed that burning them alive was too far, but it's a grain of salt compared to the mountain of evidence of her being the opposite of the mad queen.

  4. #25884
    'Game of Thrones' finale is almost here and fans aren't happy

    "Game of Thrones" fans are fed up. This final season was supposed to be a climax of brilliant storytelling, a time when all the pieces in this sprawling, intricate Westeros puzzle finally snapped into place.

    Instead, fans are grumbling on social media about rushed storylines, unexplained loose ends and beloved characters doing things that don't feel true to their nature.

    Last week's 80-minute episode took a sudden, dark turn by making longtime heroine Daenerys Targaryen a mad war monster who used her lone surviving dragon to waste hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.

    With one episode left before the series ends, that's a lot for fans to take in. More than 800,000 of them have signed a Change.org petition urging HBO to re-make the final season. (HBO is owned by WarnerMedia, CNN's parent company.)

    "David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have proven themselves to be woefully incompetent writers when they have no source material (i.e. the books) to fall back on," says the petition, referring to the two "Thrones" showrunners and the source material by author George R.R. Martin.

    Some fans feel these episodes have betrayed seven seasons of painstaking character development. And they would know. They've grown to know these characters so much they probably could predict their rising signs if it came down to it.

    That's how fierce the "Thrones" fandom is.

    The show isn't as progressive as it once seemed

    Some fans believed that "Game of Thrones," with its themes of overcoming oppression and sexism, would be the series that broke destructive social cycles.

    A show filled with so many strong women seemed to bring a message of female empowerment.

    Instead, it's become a lesson of leadership fitness, with undertones suggesting women fail as rulers because of their emotions.

  5. #25885
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    'Game of Thrones' finale is almost here and fans aren't happy

    "Game of Thrones" fans are fed up. This final season was supposed to be a climax of brilliant storytelling, a time when all the pieces in this sprawling, intricate Westeros puzzle finally snapped into place.

    Instead, fans are grumbling on social media about rushed storylines, unexplained loose ends and beloved characters doing things that don't feel true to their nature.

    Last week's 80-minute episode took a sudden, dark turn by making longtime heroine Daenerys Targaryen a mad war monster who used her lone surviving dragon to waste hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.

    With one episode left before the series ends, that's a lot for fans to take in. More than 800,000 of them have signed a Change.org petition urging HBO to re-make the final season. (HBO is owned by WarnerMedia, CNN's parent company.)

    "David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have proven themselves to be woefully incompetent writers when they have no source material (i.e. the books) to fall back on," says the petition, referring to the two "Thrones" showrunners and the source material by author George R.R. Martin.

    Some fans feel these episodes have betrayed seven seasons of painstaking character development. And they would know. They've grown to know these characters so much they probably could predict their rising signs if it came down to it.

    That's how fierce the "Thrones" fandom is.

    The show isn't as progressive as it once seemed

    Some fans believed that "Game of Thrones," with its themes of overcoming oppression and sexism, would be the series that broke destructive social cycles.

    A show filled with so many strong women seemed to bring a message of female empowerment.

    Instead, it's become a lesson of leadership fitness, with undertones suggesting women fail as rulers because of their emotions.
    If it was only the female characters that were butchered, then this article MIGHT have had a point. However, considering that they destroyed or killed practically every single major character other than Sansa and Arya, the above in relation to sexism is just complete and utter bollocks

  6. #25886
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    'Game of Thrones' finale is almost here and fans aren't happy

    "Game of Thrones" fans are fed up. This final season was supposed to be a climax of brilliant storytelling, a time when all the pieces in this sprawling, intricate Westeros puzzle finally snapped into place.

    Instead, fans are grumbling on social media about rushed storylines, unexplained loose ends and beloved characters doing things that don't feel true to their nature.

    Last week's 80-minute episode took a sudden, dark turn by making longtime heroine Daenerys Targaryen a mad war monster who used her lone surviving dragon to waste hundreds of thousands of innocent lives.

    With one episode left before the series ends, that's a lot for fans to take in. More than 800,000 of them have signed a Change.org petition urging HBO to re-make the final season. (HBO is owned by WarnerMedia, CNN's parent company.)

    "David Benioff and D.B. Weiss have proven themselves to be woefully incompetent writers when they have no source material (i.e. the books) to fall back on," says the petition, referring to the two "Thrones" showrunners and the source material by author George R.R. Martin.

    Some fans feel these episodes have betrayed seven seasons of painstaking character development. And they would know. They've grown to know these characters so much they probably could predict their rising signs if it came down to it.

    That's how fierce the "Thrones" fandom is.

    The show isn't as progressive as it once seemed

    Some fans believed that "Game of Thrones," with its themes of overcoming oppression and sexism, would be the series that broke destructive social cycles.

    A show filled with so many strong women seemed to bring a message of female empowerment.

    Instead, it's become a lesson of leadership fitness, with undertones suggesting women fail as rulers because of their emotions.
    A petition? Oh my... Fans have become so entitled these days. I know what HBO's answer will be: f*ck off! And the answer of some actors might be the same. After nine years working on the same show, they might want to do something else. Some of them have dedicated more or less half of their lives to it!
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  7. #25887
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    I'll agree with you that the writing isn't the same as it once was and they could have paced out her madness better, but I don't believe the writing was horrible. I don't think the pacing is unacceptable. I guess I've just accepted her madness because I knew she was capable of it the moment she burned the witch alive at the end of season 1. The reason I don't see her killing everyone in kings landing as over the top evil, is simply because we see it from every perspective and we're like vary's in the sense that we know everything. We aren't fully aware of how well Dany knows kings landing and how well she knows the peoples trust. For all Dany knows/believes, the people of kings landing love Cercei and see Dany as an evil tyrant. From our perspectives as the viewer, we know the people of kings landing don't care who sits on the throne, but again, Dany doesn't know that. So when she's introduced to a new scene of people scrambling into the city rather than out, we can't assume she'll address it the way she has prior sieges. A new scenario presented a new side of Dany, which is why I'm not overly shocked. She has never laid siege to a city with her dragons until now, but also subsequently never laid siege to a city that didn't have a huge portion of the city fleeing to her.

    Sorry if I've gotten a little pushy with my view or shutting yours down, I've done myself a disservice by going on too many of these GoT threads arguing with people about pacing or whether Dany is acting out of character. Atleast we both concur that the pacing and writing isn't as good as it could have been. I agree that they should have done a few more seasons to really showcase her downfall, but I don't necessarily hate it.
    Anyway, thanks for discussion, a friutful one. I get your point, although I disagree

  8. #25888
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Metallica, fitting


  9. #25889
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonstream View Post
    I'm in the "someone who thought it was inevitable that Dany was the villain all along" group but still think how the writers got there was an extreme let down and horribly written.

    If only we got another season or at least characters that actually acted like themselves; we could have ended up in the same place and it all would have been fine. That's the frustrating part.

    Cersei could have had one last trick up her sleeve (that made the siege not a total steamroll, golden company actually doing something?) and made you care about Dany/Drogons' safety for a few minutes (wing or tail cut or something?) .... that would have been great.

    Missandei should have had the same fate she did, only in this episode. The bells start to ring, everyones surrendering, but there's cersai and co with Missandei in the castle<que beheading scene> maybe with another ballista (Euron?) from a tower on the castle shot her way NOW Dany goes crazy <que city being destroyed scenes> also <que Dany theme music, but slightly off and broken>.

    Cersai could have survived the siege and been defiantly drug out in front of Dany/Drogon. Jaime breaks through the crowd rushes to her and upon seeing him <que breakdown under the castle scene> only they get torched instead of smashed by bricks.

    End of episode.

    Etc etc.

    I could go on but whats the point. What made game of thrones a great show to watch was them making you actually care about the characters (even the one episode characters) and the surprising, well thought out plot and twists. This example is neither of those but sounds a hell of a lot better than what we got. Could care less about any of them anymore.

    Would have been nice to not have Tyrion turning into a dumbass the last couple episodes (seasons?)

    Varys not suddenly turning into a dumbass. I mean really, he was the mastermind of it all and a major player the whole show....a little effort to make us care about his death would have been appreciated. At least with Little Finger it was a shocker and a good way for him to go out (outwitted.)

    Plus many more....

    It really was a disservice to these amazing actors to have their characters butchered the way they were; who you can see from their interviews (with the small amount they can say) that they agree.

    It's just so disappointing, that it's sickening. Just go read/watch the plots of old episodes and it's hard to believe its the same show. (even a few of the more recent ones Queens Justice and Spoils of War, anyone?)

    I really hope I have to eat these words on Sunday but my hopes are very low.

    - - - Updated - - -

    My above post isn't specified at anyone, I was just sick of trying to catch up in this thread and had to get that out there.
    Yeah, I really do feel the same way. I also think that there could be another season, and season 7 could start with landing in Westeros and be about planning the startegy for conquest and sowing the fear among the westerosi houses. Season 8 all about the threat to the North and joining them in the Great Battle. And then season 9 to push Dany character to the edge of sanity and all about the Last War.

    I also think that Littlefinger and Varys played a chess game. But Littlefinger plotted in his own intrest and Varys in the intrest of the realm. I would see LF joining Cersei cause when he get to know that dragons can be killed and Dany is losing the war. And Varys on the other hand supporting Dany as the best claim to the throne, and then realizing that she might not be the hope for the realm after all when he sees her mental downfall after losing her most loyal advisors. So he could switch the side to Jon. Treason is a good finish for his story, but that was actually presented poorly these last 2 seasons.
    Last edited by Nebron; 2019-05-17 at 11:23 PM.

  10. #25890
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    A petition? Oh my... Fans have become so entitled these days. I know what HBO's answer will be: f*ck off! And the answer of some actors might be the same. After nine years working on the same show, they might want to do something else. Some of them have dedicated more or less half of their lives to it!
    I'm honestly just surprised that if D&D were so fed up with it that they were arguing with George RR Martin years ago about how many seasons there would be (GRRM wanted 10-12, D&D said 7-8 tops), why didn't they begin work on hiring new people to helm the ship? Transition to new enthusiastic leadership for the series that could work with Martin on bringing the same quality years to come?

    Instead they just wanted out so I guess that's it for GOT. I'm not really upset with GOT, but it definitely was rushed, big time, and needed many more seasons to properly flesh out.

  11. #25891
    Man, a petition to change the last season is dumb as hell.....



    ....you'd need to do at least the last 4.

  12. #25892
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dacien View Post
    I'm honestly just surprised that if D&D were so fed up with it that they were arguing with George RR Martin years ago about how many seasons there would be (GRRM wanted 10-12, D&D said 7-8 tops), why didn't they begin work on hiring new people to helm the ship? Transition to new enthusiastic leadership for the series that could work with Martin on bringing the same quality years to come?
    Yes, and with new directors, the show would have taken a new direction (pun intended) and fans would have complained anyway... The main problem of the show was that they have run out of source material. Weiss and Benioff could have been the best writers out there, only G.R.R. Martin could write like G.R.R. Martin, because he's the one who knows his characters best.

    It does feel rushed, though. I sometimes wonder what the show would have been like if they sacrificed a little on lavish sets and costumes and spectacular CGI to focus more on the story and characters and have more episodes by season. I mean, one of my favorite TV shows of all time is "I, Claudius" with the excellent Derek Jacobi, and it was all done in studios! So, it could have been something between that and the motion picture quality levels we got in Game of Thrones. They could have made the whole story in 4 or 5 years with 20-24 episodes each season (so that Bran's actor wouldn't have to shave...). Of course, there would have been less explosions and flying dragons, less epic battles... But Tyrion and Olenna's witty lines would have remained the same.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  13. #25893
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    Yes, and with new directors, the show would have taken a new direction (pun intended) and fans would have complained anyway... The main problem of the show was that they have run out of source material. Weiss and Benioff could have been the best writers out there, only G.R.R. Martin could write like G.R.R. Martin, because he's the one who knows his characters best.

    It does feel rushed, though. I sometimes wonder what the show would have been like if they sacrificed a little on lavish sets and costumes and spectacular CGI to focus more on the story and characters and have more episodes by season. I mean, one of my favorite TV shows of all time is "I, Claudius" with the excellent Derek Jacobi, and it was all done in studios! So, it could have been something between that and the motion picture quality levels we got in Game of Thrones. They could have made the whole story in 4 or 5 years with 20-24 episodes each season (so that Bran's actor wouldn't have to shave...). Of course, there would have been less explosions and flying dragons, less epic battles... But Tyrion and Olenna's witty lines would have remained the same.
    The problem was, D&D were never good writers to begin with. Seriously, look at their resume pre-GoT. They were handed the reigns of a "niche fantasy adaptation" by HBO who probably didn't think it would get off the ground, at least not to this extent, since fantasy is always a gamble. And they were able to adapt it reasonably well with GRRM's help (he consulted on early seasons, and even wrote an episode a season), and that's about all they've been able to do.

  14. #25894
    Legendary! Ihavewaffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Man, a petition to change the last season is dumb as hell.....



    ....you'd need to do at least the last 4.
    And without the last 2 books no point to even bother...

  15. #25895
    Elemental Lord Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Molis View Post
    The Tarly's didnt do shit to her.
    The Tarly's just betrayed Highgarden and wiped them out. You even hear Dickon mention how he killed people he grew up with. They got what they deserved and were lucky to even get a choice. Their betrayal made no sense in the first place, another example of poor writing to rush the story forward.

    Not that I agree with them in our world, Dany had a legit reason for everything she did, until burning the women and children in KL.

    Even what Dany just did, doesn't even make her a mad Targaryen. If you think it does, then you don't know what Targaryen madness is.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2019-05-18 at 12:43 AM.

  16. #25896
    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Sam is Randyll Tarley's oldest son. The reason why Randyll was going to kill Sam and forced him to join the Night's Watch was because he did not want his eldest son, whom he believed to be weak and unsuitable, to inherit the lordship.

    Which is why Dany missed a great opportunity to make Sam the lord of the Reach when she was doling out lordships to people. There is no more need for the Night's Watch, so Sam should really be Lord Tarley right now.
    That would have been...pretty awkward. "Hey, you know how I just told you that I burned your father and brother alive? Well, you can be a lord now! Congrats!"

  17. #25897
    Elemental Lord Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prokne View Post
    Sam is Randyll Tarley's oldest son. The reason why Randyll was going to kill Sam and forced him to join the Night's Watch was because he did not want his eldest son, whom he believed to be weak and unsuitable, to inherit the lordship.

    Which is why Dany missed a great opportunity to make Sam the lord of the Reach when she was doling out lordships to people. There is no more need for the Night's Watch, so Sam should really be Lord Tarley right now.
    Sam is destined to be a Maester, so wouldn't fit into the plot. Dany didn't miss the opportunity, the poor writing by D&D did.

    If he was made Lord, he wouldn't be able to become Maester I think (I may be wrong).

  18. #25898
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    ...but they didn't uprise against Aerys.
    .....yes they did. They went with the Starks and Baratheons etc.

  19. #25899
    Elemental Lord Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ohwell View Post
    .....yes they did. They went with the Starks and Baratheons etc.
    They got pillaged by the Lannisters...

    They did not go with the Starks and Baratheons.

  20. #25900
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    They got pillaged by the Lannisters...

    They did not go with the Starks and Baratheons.
    ....The Lannisters were at KL with Tywin.

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