A playerbase divided

[Gungnir]

While this debate will never end, mainly because people seemingly can't understand how other people can like something different, I will say that I personally feel like the "retail crowd" as you've dubbed them are far more toxic in what they're saying.

The main arguments that I've seen being spouted over and over again are "IT'S JUST NOSTALGIA, STOP ENJOYING THINGS" and the opposite being "CLASSIC WILL KILL RETAIL".
Neither is obviously logical to any sane person, but there's a large difference in what's actually being said.
"Classic will kill retail" is a jab towards retail as a product, belittling or ridiculing the current state of the game.
"IT'S JUST NOSTALGIA, STOP ENJOYING THINGS" is outright belittling a person and their opinion.

I personally find the "it's just nostalgia" crowd to be a lot more toxic and petty than the other "side", but maybe that's just me.
Either way it's hard to tell the success of Classic yet, but seeing how popular OSRS is, there's clearly a market for older versions of the game.

[vipers]

Classic was never hard.

Many times this say people who never cleared all raid instances on classic when they were new

[justandulas]

While this debate will never end, mainly because people seemingly can't understand how other people can like something different, I will say that I personally feel like the "retail crowd" as you've dubbed them are far more toxic in what they're saying.

The main arguments that I've seen being spouted over and over again are "IT'S JUST NOSTALGIA, STOP ENJOYING THINGS" and the opposite being "CLASSIC WILL KILL RETAIL".
Neither is obviously logical to any sane person, but there's a large difference in what's actually being said.
"Classic will kill retail" is a jab towards retail as a product, belittling or ridiculing the current state of the game.
"IT'S JUST NOSTALGIA, STOP ENJOYING THINGS" is outright belittling a person and their opinion.

I personally find the former to be a lot more toxic and petty than the latter, but maybe that's just me.
Either way it's hard to tell the success of Classic yet, but seeing how popular OSRS is, there's clearly a market for older versions of the game.

Totally agree. The biggest toxicity I see regarding this comes from live wow players; not classic

Classic players seem grateful that their game is finally back. Live wow players can’t understand it because they didn’t like it so they expect others to and their opinion is the only one of value.

It sounds like insecurity about Bfa and current wow more than wow classic fans being jerks

[lockybalboa]

No there isn't. We are all united in our love and support for the game, as well as Ion and his team. Just because you are an outlier doesn't mean many others feel the same.

[Eurhetemec]

So as I'm sure many people are aware after browsing this site and others, the WoW Classic beta has begun to a great deal of fanfare.

However, I can't be the only one to have noticed the massive increase in hostilities between the retail and classic crowd? You have both sides creating pejorative terms to describe the others, such as "retail babies" or "nostalgia purists".

So I suppose my question and the point of this thread is to ask how do you predict this will all turn out?

I personally believe the community is fractured beyond belief and it's sad that so many who once shared a favourite pass time are now attacking each other over what essentially amounts to their personal preference.

It'll all blow over eventually.

Two things:

1) People using terms like "retail babies" or "nostalgia purists" are not real people, with real friends, who live in the real world. They're internet people, behaving in an internet way, and most of the don't even honestly believe what they're saying (the few who do, well, they're a bit messed-up). A lot of them don't even play WoW and may well not actually play Classic. They're not representative of the people who actually play Retail nor those who will likely play Classic, who will, in fact, mostly be Retail players.

2) Loads of times WoW has had some kind of "schism", or people saying "IM LEAVING FOR THIS HARDCORE REAL TOUGH REAL MAN MMO HAVE FUN IN BABYTIME WOW YOU SISSY BABIES" (which is exactly what some Classic people are saying), and they're always back within three months.

Most likely those whole thing will just make a lot of money for Blizzard.

[Fiacla]

Most likely those whole thing will just make a lot of money for Blizzard.

Oh I agree with this 100%. I'm sure Blizzard are preparing an empty swimming pool to fill with the amount of money they're about to make.

[Vampyr78]

There's the third group: Those that can enjoy both and will play both.

[Fiacla]

There's the third group: Those that can enjoy both and will play both.

I'd put myself into this camp I think, use one to compliment the other.

[Obelisk Kai]

Classic will help WoW live for the following reasons.

1.) Classic is going to draw a lot of people back to the game. Those people's excitement is already driving the Warcraft franchise again on social media and in terms of player engagement. This keeps Warcraft in the cultural zeitgeist.

2.) Classic is positive PR for Blizzard. After 'you think you want it, but you don't'. Blizzard can now point to Classic as an example of them being willing to listen to their customers and to change direction if necessary.

3.) People who sub for classic are going to be paying the same fee to the game as those who sub for live. Whilst I am not an expert in these things, I suspect that WoW classic will be cheaper to run than WoW live. As a result, people playing WoW classic will be funding other Blizzard games, including live, rather than their own beyond the costs of keeping the servers up and running.

4.) WoW classic will be a first contact with reality in over a decade for many players who wear rose tinted glasses about WoW. Seeing the game in it's original state may help players understand why certain controversial development decisions were taken over the years and decrease negativity about the live game as a result.

5.) Conversely, WoW classic may demonstrate that in some respects, some decisions taken by Blizzard over the years were wrong and Classic may help inform the philosophy of the live game going forward, improving it.

6.) Classic is a self-contained game. There is a definitive ending that everyone can aspire to, clearing Naxxramas and getting the best gear. Once done, players might be incentivised to give live another crack.

7.) It also serves as an alternative to live, in that with the game currently in the patch 8.1 doldrums (the main raid is a bit stale and most content has been completed), were classic to be live now it would serve as a fantastic alternative and could retain people who would otherwise quit as they wait for new content.

All in all, WoW classic is going to be a very positive boon for the game overall and will in fact be beneficial for live in that it will draw people back. Many players could be flitting between the two games at once, doing their raiding one night and then playing vanilla the next. I don't believe Classic will split the playerbase as feared at all.

[Moonsorrow]

I was just kidding of course, but what I really meant was that people are sick of having 3 abilities and want to actually use their brains while playing. Lets be honest here, retail WoW is brain dead 95% of the time outside of high end PvP and Mythic raiding. Where the opposite could be said about classic, 95% of the time is active thinking and 5% of the time is brain dead.

I don't know what kind of Classic you played... but from a rotational stand point I have to disagree, most rotations were very boring, this includes down-ranking which is not so much rocket-science as some tried to declare it to.

Especially the long walks and flight pathes are specifically engaging... I remember a Tauren Druid flying back from Moonglade to Thunderbluff will be tagged afk on arrival due to the long distance...

[salate]

We live in strange times when toxic behavior took over everyone.

When people report bugs in beta vanilla while its not bugs but actual gameplay, people from retail will laugh on those who wanted to play vanilla with something like "I told you so, haha"

I just dont understand why people from Vanilla cant be happy for people who plays on Retail and enjoy it? And Vice versa.
Personally I'm really happy that people who wanted their nostalgia back will get it, I will try to play on Vanilla, but I dont think it'll hook me for too long.

But well, as people said before, its not that different for other aspect of life.

[Waynhim]

Many times this say people who never cleared all raid instances on classic when they were new

But I did, when they were relevant. Also did a R11 PvP, solo-queueing, leveled 3 alts to max and raided on all of them. BG grind for rep-loot was also easy, and you had all PvP factions exalted by rank 8-9 for the epic gear slots. (Did this on an alt, so dunno if they're queueing AB/WSG/AV.)

Raidbosses up until the harder Naxx-encounters were gear-checks at best. Molten Core loot and above made outdoor stuff irrelevant.

Only thing that was a drag was leveling your first toon, especially on PvP-servers which I did, as world PvP gave nada rewards, but made the best leveling zones unplayable for leveling. After that you could twink your alts.

[justandulas]

But I did, when they were relevant. Also did a R11 PvP, solo-queueing, leveled 3 alts to max and raided on all of them. BG grind for rep-loot was also easy, and you had all PvP factions exalted by rank 8-9 for the epic gear slots. (Did this on an alt, so dunno if they're queueing AB/WSG/AV.)

Raidbosses up until the harder Naxx-encounters were gear-checks at best. Molten Core loot and above made outdoor stuff irrelevant.

Only thing that was a drag was leveling your first toon, especially on PvP-servers which I did, as world PvP gave nada rewards, but made the best leveling zones unplayable for leveling. After that you could twink your alts.

That’s some of the appeal tho; having a definitive end point. The end point is an important part of any rpg characters journey.

With wow classic; we’ll have real goalposts to reach as far as when to walk away and that’s great ImO

Part of the problem to me of live wow is the seasonal aspect of it. Much like diablo 3, it revolves too much around seasons and resetting them for the next one. Nothing I build or achieve in wow will matter 6 months from now

[Waynhim]

Part of the problem to me of live wow is the seasonal aspect of it. Much like diablo 3, it revolves too much around seasons and resetting them for the next one. Nothing I build or achieve in wow will matter 6 months from now

I totally agree with this, and remember it fondly. Especially the guild and isolated server part. I personally wouldn't do it again though, partly because I've allready done it, partly because I don't have the time to play competitively anymore. Thus retail is better suited to me atm. as it caters more to people who can't invest that much into the game. Making it into a Alpha/Beta-thing is beyond stupid IMO.

[Fiacla]

Classic won't save this game. It'll just prolong and keep it on life support.

Retails fucking trash and populated by shills who should die of cancer.

It's a pretty civil thread eleccybubb, no need for such hostility.

[Malkiah]

that's debatable but let's keep that on the side

you clearly said to keep that on the side, but... i have to point out that the overall design and challenge curve was specifically made from the perspective that EQ was too hard, and vanilla wow was being made for casual players who couldn't hack it in EQ.
so, by any metric by which "hard" is decided in terms of difficulty that isn't relative only to itself (ie, if difficulty isn't compared only to the game that itself it is being compared to) classic was never hard.

remains the super big time sink you had. that's not something for the casual chad that wants to lift weights

why not?
the only way it isn't for casuals is if you think there is some progression thresh hold you have to pass in order to be actually playing the game, be that ilevel or raids completed or whatever.
on a long enough timeline anyone can accomplish anything with whatever daily input they can muster, so it shouldn't really make any difference.

[Doffen]

While this debate will never end, mainly because people seemingly can't understand how other people can like something different, I will say that I personally feel like the "retail crowd" as you've dubbed them are far more toxic in what they're saying.

The main arguments that I've seen being spouted over and over again are "IT'S JUST NOSTALGIA, STOP ENJOYING THINGS" and the opposite being "CLASSIC WILL KILL RETAIL".
Neither is obviously logical to any sane person, but there's a large difference in what's actually being said.
"Classic will kill retail" is a jab towards retail as a product, belittling or ridiculing the current state of the game.
"IT'S JUST NOSTALGIA, STOP ENJOYING THINGS" is outright belittling a person and their opinion.

I personally find the "it's just nostalgia" crowd to be a lot more toxic and petty than the other "side", but maybe that's just me.
Either way it's hard to tell the success of Classic yet, but seeing how popular OSRS is, there's clearly a market for older versions of the game.

You think that because you don't like what they like.

It's pretty simple to see people taking side, and why they do that. I find the classic community to be way more aggresive than retail crowd, then again vanilla wow was slow af, so I am, like you and others very biased when it comes to this.

Whos most toxic? It's usually the ones you don't agree with.

Classic won't save this game. It'll just prolong and keep it on life support.

- won't repeat this nonsense

I rest my case.

There's the third group: Those that can enjoy both and will play both.

Definitely. Even though I think classic was boring, I will still try it. And very happy for those die hard vanilla fans that now got what they wanted.

[Khaza-R]

Not surprising in the least. This game has always had divisive camps. That's why its gone through crazy periods of trying to be HC or ultra casual. Maybe Blizzard will finally realize you can't cater to two separate crowds with the same product.

[Sangris]

The only "hostilities" I see between the two are either retail people wanting to bring garbage changes that were made later into classic or classic people spouting about how retail will die once classic goes live and how classic will have far more sub numbers.

Both groups are idiots.

[Malkiah]

Is there still a "retail crowd"?

yes

I don't know but it seems to me like retail is in a massive decline.

be in a city, it's crawling with people.
go out to do a world quest, it's crawling with people.
do dungeons, there's hordes of people outside summoning others and there's normally a large and robust list of group postings in the in-game interface.
queue times for both LFD and LFR are pretty reasonable, even late at night getting into a raid takes less time than it has years.

if retail is in decline i can't conceive of what an inline is, because it feels quite populated.