SAT test to now include "adversity" score

[shadowmatrix]

Wouldn't it be better to increase funding for education so that low income areas don't have shitty schools?

And end up paying teachers what they are worth....ARE YOU MAD?

[Najnaj]

That was to test your reading comprehension. No one knows about the fucking bats that isn't the point. They give you a page or something with a bunch of random information and then see how well you can answer questions based on that information you just read.

..yeah, it was. Now, do you think someone who knows about these issues since they were kids might just have an advantage over someone who only just heard about them for the first time.

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Lol you are deluded. If they accept someone just because of their skin colour/economic status you are discriminating all others.

It will help if you actually read the article and not just make shit up in your head.

[Kronik85]

Where do I check all the adversity boxes?

I had to walk to school 15 miles barefoot, over lava, uphill both ways, in the snow, with my 6 siblings on my back while we passed around one jacket.

You forgot your thimble full of corn oil to keep you going, with the baking heat on your back (alongside your siblings)!

[Elkfingers]

Oh you mean like that nice one "woman" with balls producing more testoseron and they then decided bcs of that she can´t compete in the womans bracket and she tried to get that reworked bcs she claims to be a "woman" hm. You mean like that mate?

Bolded the important bit. Seemsok.

[Tabrotar]

Bolded the important bit. Seemsok.

Don´t you read the rest?

She said to them nu uh i´m totes a woman even if you proved that i have testicles and they give me way way more testoseron then a normal woman has and tries/got ot revoked.

We even had a thread about it.

[GreenJesus]

..yeah, it was. Now, do you think someone who knows about these issues since they were kids might just have an advantage over someone who only just heard about them for the first time.

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It will help if you actually read the article and not just make shit up in your head.

??? Why do you think people that are local know all about some bats? They don't.

[Elkfingers]

Don´t you read the rest?

She said to them nu uh i´m totes a woman even if you proved that i have testicles and they give me way way more testoseron then a normal woman has and tries/got ot revoked.

We even had a thread about it.

Yeah but did it actually get revoked?

[d00mGuArD]

Its also telling that the people who developed the SAT and IQ tests said they were being misused and were racist....

Well, if some idiots created a test on the false assumption that a race is better than others, it does not matter. Here is an example:

Let's say you make a test with the following wrong reasoning

One race can write better poems than the others, so let's test people on poetry

You create the test. Your assumption that some race is better at poems is wrong, so it will not really matter. Any race can write as good poems as the next
The false assumption did not affect anything, because it was based on something that does not exist.

End result: No matter your racist false assumption, only good poets will pass the exam. The fact that you had a racists false assumption, does not influence the result.
It would only influence the results, if one race was indeed better at poems than others.

Clarification: when I say you, I speak generally, not you personally

[Najnaj]

??? Why do you think people that are local know all about some bats? They don't.

...because it was a famous local story that some people who took the test with me knew. I arrived in the area after that story so I was at a disadvantage.

Perhaps next time you decide to argue with someone about something that happened to them and that you know absolutely nothing about, try being less assertive. It is like me arguing with you about what happened at your parents wedding ....

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Well, if some idiots created a test on the false assumption that a race is better than others, it does not matter. Here is an example:

Let's say you make a test with the following wrong reasoning

One race can write better poems than the others, so let's test people on poetry

You create the test. Your assumption that some race is better at poems is wrong, so it will not really matter. Any race can write as good poems as the next
The false assumption did not affect anything, because it was based on something that does not exist.

End result: No matter your racist false assumption, only good poets will pass the exam. The fact that you had a racists false assumption, does not influence the result.
It would only influence the results, if one race was indeed better at poems than others.

Clarification: when I say you, I speak generally, not you personally

,,,and to illustrate your point you decided to use an impossibly subjective example that you can not test for and where this entire argument does not apply. I can't think of many areas where race could actually be of importance besides tanning but poetry would be one of them.

[Alydael]

All of this anti test stuff is nonsense.

Tests work.

Look at all the buildings, machines and infra structure around you...... The people who built those things needed to pass proficiency tests to have licenses to build/work on those....... They are proof that tests work.

There was no "adversity" scores on any of those tests, there was no "affirmative action."

There is a ton of books with SAT test prep- there are tons of free tutoring/help programs at school.

If you really want to do well on the test- there is literally nothing stopping you but yourself.

We have to stop making excuses for everything under the sun and have to get back to hard work and less complaining.

[Tabrotar]

Yeah but did it actually get revoked?

Nothing new so far it´s still in the making aka both sides are preparing their strategies/proposalsas far as i read.

[Elkfingers]

All of this anti test stuff is nonsense.

Tests work.

Look at all the buildings, machines and infra structure around you...... The people who built those things needed to pass proficiency tests to have licenses to build/work on those....... They are proof that tests work.

There was no "adversity" scores on any of those tests, there was no "affirmative action."

There is a ton of books with SAT test prep- there are tons of free tutoring/help programs at school.

If you really want to do well on the test- there is literally nothing stopping you but yourself.

We have to stop making excuses for everything under the sun and have to get back to hard work and less complaining.

Sure. Just ignore literally any and all factors which would pretty clearly have some bearing on the time and resources that somebody would have access to. Can't afford a private tutor? No problem, just use the free resources. Just as good as paying somebody. Problems in your family or community which impact on both your time and the amount of energy you have available to dedicate to studying? No problem - just have a coffee an stay up later. Exactly the same thing as somebody with a stable living situation and plenty of free time.

If something's a problem, don't point it out. Just work harder like a fucking drone.

Seriously, could you be any more of a bootlicker?

Nothing new so far it´s still in the making aka both sides are preparing their strategies/proposalsas far as i read.

That's kinda my point. Like anyone is free to challenge a decision, but I'm not gonna say that the whole thing is a problem at all unless the appeal goes a certain way.

[Alydael]

Sure. Just ignore literally any and all factors which would pretty clearly have some bearing on the time and resources that somebody would have access to. Can't afford a private tutor? No problem, just use the free resources. Just as good as paying somebody. Problems in your family or community which impact on both your time and the amount of energy you have available to dedicate to studying? No problem - just have a coffee an stay up later. Exactly the same thing as somebody with a stable living situation and plenty of free time.

If something's a problem, don't point it out. Just work harder like a fucking drone.

Seriously, could you be any more of a bootlicker?



That's kinda my point. Like anyone is free to challenge a decision, but I'm not gonna say that the whole thing is a problem at all unless the appeal goes a certain way.

You're the bootlicker- licking the boot of anyone that has some excuse on why they didn't succeed. Maybe if they applied all the energy they applied to trying to get around the test and the energy they used making excuses- to actually studying for and taking the test, they might do better.

Also- wake up to the reality of the world. Everybody deals with adversity. Everyone has challenges- life isn't easy for anyone. Most people don't cry about it because they know that everyone is dealing with their own challenges.

Knowing that comes with maturity (which I could tell you lack understanding of by your weak attempt at name calling and insulting- the "calling cards" of an immature mind)

There are millions of examples of people that overcame adversity- without asking for people to change the system to help them or complaining at all.

In a way- adversity is life's gift to you. You overcome it- you build character and gain skills- "guts" they call it.

[Delekii]

All of this anti test stuff is nonsense.

Tests work.

Look at all the buildings, machines and infra structure around you...... The people who built those things needed to pass proficiency tests to have licenses to build/work on those....... They are proof that tests work.

There was no "adversity" scores on any of those tests, there was no "affirmative action."

There is a ton of books with SAT test prep- there are tons of free tutoring/help programs at school.

If you really want to do well on the test- there is literally nothing stopping you but yourself.

We have to stop making excuses for everything under the sun and have to get back to hard work and less complaining.

Who's changing it or making excuses? Nobody is saying "lets bump up the score by x because of adversity y".

The scores of the SATs won't be changing, at all. People looking at the results will have a second axis to look at. If you're looking at 2 people with a score of 1300, and one had to overcome more adversity to get that score, there is a high chance that that person is the smarter of the two. If you're concerned that people who didn't have to overcome that adversity will get overlooked as a result, that's fine. Just tell them to git gud and do more work.There's nothing stoping them, there's tons of free tutoring and help programs at school they can go to to get a better score...

That's how this works, right?

Context matters. Test scores with context are more representative of actual reality than test scores devoid of context, always. You can choose not to use that information if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be available to people who are smart enough to leverage its value in comparing people. We aren't going to start seeing people building buildings, machines and infrastructure who got SAT scores of 10 because they have a high adversity score, or people with super high SAT Scores denied from university because they dont have an adversity score, but there are plenty of dot points in between where context can be leveraged to useful effect to find people who might otherwise have been missed.

[Najnaj]

So it's localist?

I guess you could say that. It is an example of some people having an advantage over others in a situation where this should not be the case. There is a multitude of ways this could happen but race is probably the least likely. Nationality, socioeconomic status, gender would all be more important and race only factor in where it has an effect on these or others.

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Who's changing it or making excuses? Nobody is saying "lets bump up the score by x because of adversity y".

The scores of the SATs won't be changing, at all. People looking at the results will have a second axis to look at. If you're looking at 2 people with a score of 1300, and one had to overcome more adversity to get that score, there is a high chance that that person is the smarter of the two. If you're concerned that people who didn't have to overcome that adversity will get overlooked as a result, that's fine. Just tell them to git gud and do more work.There's nothing stoping them, there's tons of free tutoring and help programs at school they can go to to get a better score...

That's how this works, right?

Context matters. Test scores with context are more representative of actual reality than test scores devoid of context, always. You can choose not to use that information if you don't want to, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be available to people who are smart enough to leverage its value in comparing people. We aren't going to start seeing people building buildings, machines and infrastructure who got SAT scores of 10 because they have a high adversity score, or people with super high SAT Scores denied from university because they dont have an adversity score, but there are plenty of dot points in between where context can be leveraged to useful effect to find people who might otherwise have been missed.

Also worth mentioning that someone who had to struggle a lot to get the same results as someone who was taken to class, tutors come to their house and nothing really to worry about is probably going to be both smarter and do better in life both for personal gains and for society in general. It takes not only brains to excel in school while working full time, it takes drive and determination and we want these people to get the chance.

This is being presented as some sort of pity vote here but it is anything but. It is in everyone's best interest to get these people a good education.

[Elkfingers]

You're the bootlicker- licking the boot of anyone that has some excuse on why they didn't succeed. Maybe if they applied all the energy they applied to trying to get around the test and the energy they used making excuses- to actually studying for and taking the test, they might do better.

Also- wake up to the reality of the world. Everybody deals with adversity. Everyone has challenges- life isn't easy for anyone. Most people don't cry about it because they know that everyone is dealing with their own challenges.

Knowing that comes with maturity (which I could tell you lack understanding of by your weak attempt at name calling and insulting- the "calling cards" of an immature mind)

There are millions of examples of people that overcame adversity- without asking for people to change the system to help them or complaining at all.

In a way- adversity is life's gift to you. You overcome it- you build character and gain skills- "guts" they call it.

Yeah, the thing with people like you is that you always try to reframe being a callous asshat as somehow being 'mature and realistic'. Except it's not realistic at all. If two people are in a race, but one of them starts further behind then yes it would be impressive if they won, but if they lost by a margin smaller than their intial handicap then it's clear to see that they would have been able to win had the conditions been equal at the outset. What you're saying is that you would watch that race and when the person with an advantage won, you would say that the loser should have just worked harder and really shouldn't complain because the handicap was really a gift. I'm not trying to be insulting here, I'm being objective - that is a plainly idiotic viewpoint.

Not only is it an almost unfathomably moronic stance to take, it's actually completely fucking perverse.

Trying to claim that unfair conditions are actually a good thing because having to work harder than others for exactly the same results is character building is so infinitely stupid that I almost can't believe that it's the actual stance that you're actually taking. If that were even a little bit true then you would see people in advantageous situations intentionally making things harder for themselves so they can become more 'gutsy', but you don't see that because it would be obviously detrimental, and I can't restate this enough, a really fucking stupid thing to do.

Life isn't easy for anyone, but you've admitted yourself that it is in fact easier for some than others. What you're basically saying is that nobody should ever point out that things aren't fair, even though you accept openly that they're not.

It's not namecalling. You're a fucking bootlicker. You think that people should just accept what they're given, even if it's less than what others are given. Just like a bootlicker would. There may be millions of examples of people who overcame adversity, but there are also millions of examples of people who worked just as hard but didn't manage to. Why? Because that's what adversity fucking means.

You're not mature. You're a person who blames the less fortunate for failing to overcome burdens that they neither chose nor deserved, which is about as low as it gets, and a viewpoint so detatched from reality that I can only assume it's a product of your thinking being so impressively shallow that you can't even draw the most basic and obvious conclusions, despite having all the information you could possibly need in order to do so.

[Zython]

All of this anti test stuff is nonsense.

Tests work.

Look at all the buildings, machines and infra structure around you...... The people who built those things needed to pass proficiency tests to have licenses to build/work on those....... They are proof that tests work.

What the hell are you talking about? A lot of that shit sucks. We have trillion dollar planes that can't fly. Cars that run over black people. Smart phones that break after a day of use. Battery-powered house locks. Thermostats with firmware updates. $80/month internet with speeds that were embarrassing 10 years ago. And a planet that's on fucking fire. I'm pretty certain we can do a lot better than this crap.

There was no "adversity" scores on any of those tests, there was no "affirmative action."

There is a ton of books with SAT test prep- there are tons of free tutoring/help programs at school.

If you really want to do well on the test- there is literally nothing stopping you but yourself.

We have to stop making excuses for everything under the sun and have to get back to hard work and less complaining.

That's great way to get kids to waste their potential that could be spent on extracurricular that they're passionate about.

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You're the bootlicker- licking the boot of anyone that has some excuse on why they didn't succeed.

Those people aren't wearing the boots...

Maybe if they applied all the energy they applied to trying to get around the test and the energy they used making excuses- to actually studying for and taking the test, they might do better.

Strange how every single person who says this has never struggled with anything of note.

Also- wake up to the reality of the world. Everybody deals with adversity. Everyone has challenges- life isn't easy for anyone. Most people don't cry about it because they know that everyone is dealing with their own challenges.

Ok, but why does it have to be that way?

Knowing that comes with maturity (which I could tell you lack understanding of by your weak attempt at name calling and insulting- the "calling cards" of an immature mind)

There are millions of examples of people that overcame adversity- without asking for people to change the system to help them or complaining at all.

And yet those stories have "and then they got a $500k loan from daddy" in the 5th paragraph.

In a way- adversity is life's gift to you. You overcome it- you build character and gain skills- "guts" they call it.

Ok, then you wouldn't complain if someone murdered your family?

[Cracked]

All this pointless talk, people have no problem admitting one race is statistically taller, but suddenly you're racist if you suggest that certain races are statistically less intelligent than others. Yet this is somehow a nono despite the overwhelming statistical evidence. No, can't be that, it's the test that is racist.

[smityx]

There is that... or we could just claim we were of Native American descent... and if we are questioned we can handwave and say 'we have high cheek bones and our grammys told us we were'... then after college we'll be qualified to run for the Senate and eventually President.

Or we could claim we're a self made billionaire and for the working man... the after conning them and trolling everyone else and be president even though you lost the popular vote by 2.8 million and had foreign outside help. asked for or not.

[betterthanEU]

All this pointless talk, people have no problem admitting one race is statistically taller, but suddenly you're racist if you suggest that certain races are statistically less intelligent than others. Yet this is somehow a nono despite the overwhelming statistical evidence. No, can't be that, it's the test that is racist.

Nope - can't be a nono anymore. One group of people are taller & have bigger you know whats whilst having sadly far smaller noggins. On the other end of the spectrum - they are short - have tiny you know whats - & far more impressive noggins. Sadly there are outliers who skew it all, yet fortunately not enough such that they gain any ground.

There's no such thing as a smart basketball player - just a lucky one with a good manager. Just like there's no such thing as an...not as western business man who doesn't have to pay for a wife!