BfA Patch Speculation thread (8.3 and later).

[DeicideUH]

And yet most of the major story complaints is about what topic? O right the factions.

More of how unsatisfying are the storylines made for them, not because of their existance. People like factions, but they want to feel rewarded, not punished, for fighting for them.

Horde is always the villain and can't have a stable warchief.
Alliance is too boring and never can get a meaningful win.
Both act stupidly.

[huth]

More of how unsatisfying are the storylines made for them, not because of their existance. People like factions, but they want to feel rewarded, not punished, for fighting for them.

Horde is always the villain and can't have a stable warchief.
Alliance is too boring and never can get a meaningful win.
Both act stupidly.

That's one of the biggest issues with the divide, though. Neither side can ever decisively win or loose.

[EbaumsTipster]

That's one of the biggest issues with the divide, though. Neither side can ever decisively win or loose.

Hence why they're definitively going to stop fighting. We'll probably also lose the Warchief seat, and MAYBE the High King seat too if we go through with the potential "son of Arthas" drama that might be cooking.

Factions will remain, fighting/competition/political stuff will go.

EDIT: The best way to put it is that both factions are likely going to get hit with a "mix up" of sorts that levels the playing field for both in terms of story and organization. Namely Sylvanas/Thrall drama and Anduin/Arthas drama. I will be shocked if we still have a warchief or high king after all this.

[Syegfryed]

I'm fully expecting cross-faction play to be a big feature of 9.0, and BFA's "faction war" theme to be a "last sendoff" (though there will still be parts of each faction that want to kill the other)

if they ever do some cross-faction gameplay it will be related to a third evil faction follower of n'zoth imo

Like doing raids/stance pvp together, or team up to do quests with people with the gift of n'zoth

They could get some exclusive "evil-edgy" quests, so they can stop project on the factions (horde mostly)

I just expect some sort of "punishment", like if you have the "gift" active, you could kill your own faction but you would also be killed by then, every other npc of your faction be hostile, and would be "hard" to change back.

End the factions is stupid, but this could work.

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That's one of the biggest issues with the divide, though. Neither side can ever decisively win or loose.

i see no problem with that, its a game, there is no reason to "decisively win" if there is no decisively end

[DeicideUH]

Neither side can ever decisively win or loose.

They don't need to, but they do need to have their good wins and fist-pumping moments. ANd they don't need to act stupidly all the time.
Blizzard seems to think that faction war needs to be about making everyone feel miserable all the time.

[EbaumsTipster]

They don't need to, but they do need to have their good wins and fist-pumping moments. ANd they don't need to act stupidly all the time.
Blizzard seems to think that faction war needs to be about making everyone feel miserable all the time.

I mean, stuff like 8.1 was explicitly made to make the Alliance feel better with multiple wins across the board, and "they didn't win enough" isn't really an argument against that fact.

The problem is that there is no "hell yeah" thing for the Horde for the entirety of BFA, and even if 8.3 is "Sylvanas Must Die" it still won't be because of how many Horde players like Sylvanas.

[huth]

Hence why they're definitively going to stop fighting. We'll probably also lose the Warchief seat, and MAYBE the High King seat too if we go through with the potential "son of Arthas" drama that might be cooking.

Except that Arthas drama is entirely headcanon with no actual lore support based on really shaky evidence. Even if he somehow was, there's no indication that anybody is even aware of it or had any interest in bringing it up. It'd be more likely to lose the High King position simply because it becomes superfluous with the Horde no longer being a significant threat.

Have the Alliance descend into internal bickering and politicking now that the primary glue that kept them together lost it's power.

i see no problem with that, its a game, there is no reason to "decisively win" if there is no decisively end

It makes for a really boring story if you know from the start that it's going nowhere.

They don't need to, but they do need to have their good wins and fist-pumping moments. ANd they don't need to act stupidly all the time.

If they didn't, the Alliance would have won by now. So they actually do need to, or we have to abandon the faction divide.
The community also complains any time either side ever gets any advantage, so good wins and fist pumping isn't really possible, either. Any significant event has to be counterbalanced almost immediately.

The writers are extremely hamstrung with HvA storytelling.

[George Costanza]

Alliance is acting like lazy monkeys while horde acts like crazy gorillas.

[Syegfryed]

It makes for a really boring story if you know from the start that it's going nowhere.

its not about the end, but the ride, the conflicts the skirmishes, just killing people, boring would be factions holding hands against the big bad all the time.

[huth]

its not about the end, but the ride, the conflicts the skirmishes, just killing people, boring would be factions holding hands against the big bad all the time.

Skirmishes that always end with no winner, conflicts that never get properly resolved. Yay, great entertainment. At least external enemies let them mix things up.

[DeicideUH]

I mean, stuff like 8.1 was explicitly made to make the Alliance feel better with multiple wins across the board, and "they didn't win enough" isn't really an argument against that fact.

The problem is that there is no "hell yeah" thing for the Horde for the entirety of BFA, and even if 8.3 is "Sylvanas Must Die" it still won't be because of how many Horde players like Sylvanas.

It doesn't feel like a victory, thought, and that's the problem. Blizzard seems incapable of doing moments that feel truly satisfying.

You invade Dazar'alor, destroy the fleet. Ok until then. From that point onwards, everything feels like a failure. You went to capture the king, against whom the Alliance player has nothing (he never even saw him before unless he plays Horde as well, in which case he's very sympathetic). You kill the king, which was not the plan. Now, it's the Alliance running away during the three last bosses of the raid, in which the Horde defeats two of the Alliance leaders.

End of the day: Alliance "won" in a very unsatisfying way.

It was the same thing with Lordaeron. Man, how I was expecting Lordaeron to feel epic. First, without Jaina the Alliance would have lost at the gates, against the plague that should have been expected and no countermeasures were taken. Then we storm the city, capture Saurfang. So far so good. And then Sylvanas blows the city up, robbing the victory.

It's always these half-measures that feel like you aren't really winning anything.

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If they didn't, the Alliance would have won by now. So they actually do need to, or we have to abandon the faction divide.
The community also complains any time either side ever gets any advantage, so good wins and fist pumping isn't really possible, either. Any significant event has to be counterbalanced almost immediately.

The writers are extremely hamstrung with HvA storytelling.

I disagree heavily here. I think both sides need to experience losses and wins, but the wins need to feel like true victories, and the losses need to feel like, even in loss, you end up gaining something or avoiding the worse thanks to cunning and brave efforts.

It's totally doable, but Blizzard seems to not know how to do it.

[Syegfryed]

Skirmishes that always end with no winner, conflicts that never get properly resolved. Yay, great entertainment. At least external enemies let them mix things up.

there is a reason why it didn't end, they are not strong enough, wars take years to resolve, even decades, its just impossible to have peace, they just need to write something cohesive.

External enemies AND the know enemies its better than just external enemies and holding hands with people who exterminate you in the past like some disney movie.

[allegrian]

About ending the faction split, I fear Blizzard will reveal a last plot twist where Anduin/Alliance have been planning to end the horde all along, and after the last raid they'll do something horrible, like killing Thrall or something, and we'll get back to square 1.

[huth]

there is a reason why it didn't end, they are not strong enough, wars take years to resolve, even decades, its just impossible to have peace, they just need to write something cohesive.

External enemies AND the know enemies its better than just external enemies and holding hands with people who exterminate you in the past like some disney movie.

The Alliance had at least one chance to end the Horde permanently. Varian decided to just walk away.

And i refer you to Europe. You now have countries living peacefully with each other that have been at each others throats for millenia up till less than a hundred years ago. It's perfectly reasonable for it to happen, especially if you're constantly faced with outside threats. If anything, the unrealistic part is them repeatedly going to war again over nothing at the same time.

[George Costanza]

About ending the faction split, I fear Blizzard will reveal a last plot twist where Anduin/Alliance have been planning to end the horde all along, and after the last raid they'll do something horrible, like killing Thrall or something, and we'll get back to square 1.

Doubt that so hard i think the probability of past leaks are more likely to happen

[Syegfryed]

The Alliance had at least one chance to end the Horde permanently. Varian decided to just walk away.

this is just assumption, there was no canon source saying varian could "end" the horde permanently there, just the war would go even more darker.

And i refer you to Europe. You now have countries living peacefully with each other that have been at each others throats for millenia up till less than a hundred years ago. It's perfectly reasonable for it to happen, especially if you're constantly faced with outside threats. If anything, the unrealistic part is them repeatedly going to war again over nothing at the same time.

None of those countries had a past like horde and alliance, also, there is a totally different spawn of time and technology, there is no comparison here

Yet, until today there is war and conflict there, by religion or by resources, not there but in africa and other places

There is no logic of this happening in wow, past crimes will not be solved, there will always be fight for resources, revenge or compensation

[Sondrelk]

The Alliance had at least one chance to end the Horde permanently. Varian decided to just walk away.

And i refer you to Europe. You now have countries living peacefully with each other that have been at each others throats for millenia up till less than a hundred years ago. It's perfectly reasonable for it to happen, especially if you're constantly faced with outside threats. If anything, the unrealistic part is them repeatedly going to war again over nothing at the same time.

Europe certainly has a story of war that had a relatively sudden end after World War 2, mostly because of the EU (which coincidentally is what i assume the potential Horde/alliance unifaction will look like)

But saying that this is the same as Horde and Alliance is not really true. It would be more fitting an analogy if WW1 was started because Germany did not have enough resources, and so started nicking others very suddenly, then the Treaty of Versailles basically amounted to leaving Germany to it's own devices with no repercussions.
Then having WW2 start with Germany suddenly nuking France.

There comes a time when the logical step is just to assume that a country simply has exhausted its chances to prove it is capable of being peaceful, and i can guarantee you that if Germany started the war by nuking a country and then desecrating the graves of the dead, then WW2 would more likely have ended with the dissolution of Germany into its neighbouring states.

[Nathanyel]

The common people and soldiers of the Horde are just as misled about the end goals as the Germans in WW2, and there were soldiers, even generals, who did not agree with the cause yet fought for their nation, hoping for a swift end and eventual armistice, as wars had always promised.

Appealing to the "pride" the soldiers have in themselves and their nation while abusing the "beast in every man", to quote Jorah Mormont, to instill hatred towards the enemy, to make defeating and killing them not only necessary, but something that will better the world, has been part of every war, real or fictional.
Warcraft, maybe not in the first game, but later ones, was somewhat unique (at the time) by showing both sides and humanizing the Orcs as not the one-dimensional goons that are evil through and through, only existing to be defeated by the good guys, but as actual persons, flawed and corruptible, just like real people.

[EbaumsTipster]

About ending the faction split, I fear Blizzard will reveal a last plot twist where Anduin/Alliance have been planning to end the horde all along, and after the last raid they'll do something horrible, like killing Thrall or something, and we'll get back to square 1.

I don't think anyone is going to be killing Thrall who isn't named Sylvanas or Tyrande.

[Zandalariprelate]

Nope. "Get rid of factions" people are a vocal minority, and not even that vocal either. Warcraft is faction based: that's something you have to deal with.

Anger is about mechanics, not factions. Very few people want one crappy homogenized faction like 99% of MMOs.

People in general doesn't care for the faction system except when they want to do x activity and I bet most wouldn't care if they can play with the alliance/horde players in raiding, mythic plus, etc. Besides I have seen a lot of complains about the population issue and how the system is a stupid mechanic that only harm the experience of people who wants to group in mythic plus and raiding which in all honestly they have a point since most of the PVE players are in the horde side and pvp is mostly dead at this point, so even the niche of the alliance players is totally abandoned which is the thing I was refering on my comment.

Lorewise I don't care anymore for the factions, for all I care both factions can be destroyed in some book/comic or just stay in a background profile for the rest of the wow life-span

That's not interesting, that's demoralizing, we don't need that and people are gonna feel pride Alliance or Horde no matter what. Most of any anger is how the game plays then any faction frustration. The factions shouldn't be removed at all.

Well each one to his/her own cup of tea but honestly I won't mind the destruction of the current horde and alliance to mirrow the warcraft 3 events in some epic final expansion, besides both factions could return in some future spin off if some member survived the massacre. Also having the factions staying in the background is another way to have them to heal slowly after the bfa war and probably most players are tired of the AvH conflict without a clear winner which I believe most people are angry about that more than anything.