Why did Blizz Make Geyah'rah Alt Universe Thrall?

[Skytotem]

They needed some more female representation

I'm not really asking why they made her a girl I'm asking why they tied her to Thrall...

Everyone pissing and moaning about female characters is missing the point imo.

[Tyrathius]

It's a quick and easy way to give the character significance. If she were just some random Orc, there'd be questions as to why she was in charge, especially when she jumped on board the Sylvanas train. Having her be Thrall's alternate self implies she shares his potential and significance, even if Blizz will probably never actually utilize that potential and significance.

[Th3Scourge]

I'm not really asking why they made her a girl I'm asking why they tied her to Thrall...

Everyone pissing and moaning about female characters is missing the point imo.

It's a joke, not a dick, don't take it so hard.

And she's probably the best one too, she's all for war and destruction. A true Orc leader.

[Skytotem]

It's a joke, not a dick, don't take it so hard.

And she's probably the best one too, she's all for war and destruction. A true Orc leader.

Seems you're the one who's bent out of shape if you're going on the attack.

Either way, she's refreshing in that she's not droning on about guilt but she kind of goes to the opposite end of the problem where she's onboard with Sylvanas being a dictator when she opposed the Lightforged for similar tyranny.

For folks saying the Shadowmoon are the same... ehhh, we don't know enough about what happened in the 30 years since to judge that.

[KrakHed]

It's because he's an orc gladiator in medieval-hellscape-land, given the personality of a middle aged human man raised in the luxuries of the modern era. It doesn't even sound right. Tying his character so deeply with Metzen to the point that they share receding hair lines/silvering was a mistake. To keep him matching Metzen's personality, they'd have to continuously gentrify Thrall at an absurd pace so they'd always reflect each other.

It's to the point that Thrall marrying a 'savage' orc like Aggra feels wrong. He's almost 'too civilized' to be with her. It'd be like seeing an Ivy league graduate marry the female embodiment of Duck Dynasty.

Is that his personality? It honestly sounds more like a weird impression people have gotten of Thrall than who he ever actually was. I mean, this was the dude who intentionally kept his throneroom drafty and cold so visitors would feel uncomfortable in the presence of their Warchief. He used to have the stones to crack skulls personally. He didn't rule just on his savior rep, but because he'd kill those who betrayed him.

Weird passive Thrall was an invention of Cataclysm. As both a Shaman and Warrior, he was more a thinker than some random Warrior, but he used to be fierce enough until Blizzard somehow reimagined him as a neutral pacifist who no one would ever want to war with and who would never war against anyone.

But yes, he was indeed more civilized than Aggra. Green Orcs in general are more civilized than Draenor Orcs. They have an actual civilization now, with books and writing. Garrosh was such a dumb idea because they put some tribal savage in charge of a fucking near modern nation. Did Garrosh even know how to read?

As far as I'm concerned, Thrall makes the most sense not in terms of "raised by humans" but from a "taught to be a shaman by an old man with a lot of regrets" perspective.

- - - Updated - - -

And if I'm to explain, it was Drek'thar who taught Thrall the virtue of living in a harsh land without abusing the elements to make it more comfortable. This was Thrall's introduction to true untainted traditional Orc life, at least so far as he understood it. It was Drek'thar who taught Thrall about how his people had fucked up, about their history, Drek'thar who first held up the Tauren as an example to be emulated, and so on. He was the dude Thrall brought with him when he visited Garrosh.

I feel it's a shame Blizzard doesn't play up Drek'thar more. Drek'thar's the dude who taught Thrall his fucking religion and culture, and one of his closest advisors. Now he's shitting himself in a wheelchair. What the hell has Drek'thar even been up to lately? Not counting quests where he has no lines.

[matrix123mko]

Don't you worry.

Eternal Champion of the Light, Lightbound Exarch Garrosh Hellscream from AU Draenor is on his way.

I am waiting for him while drawing epic fan art.

[Skytotem]

And if I'm to explain, it was Drek'thar who taught Thrall the virtue of living in a harsh land without abusing the elements to make it more comfortable. This was Thrall's introduction to true untainted traditional Orc life, at least so far as he understood it. It was Drek'thar who taught Thrall about how his people had fucked up, about their history, Drek'thar who first held up the Tauren as an example to be emulated, and so on. He was the dude Thrall brought with him when he visited Garrosh.

I feel it's a shame Blizzard doesn't play up Drek'thar more. Drek'thar's the dude who taught Thrall his fucking religion and culture, and one of his closest advisors. Now he's shitting himself in a wheelchair. What the hell has Drek'thar even been up to lately? Not counting quests where he has no lines.

The thing with Drek'thar not using shamanism to change the land hasn't aged well though because apparently you can use every OTHER kind of magic to fix the land and it's fine, at least when other cultures do it.

Druids apparently did up Ashenvale and other nelf territories after all.

[Super Dickmann]

1. Subjugated Client Race fits, and at least some of the other ogres note that they didn't want any part of the rebellion. Whether that's purely for fear or genuine camaraderie or because being WITH the Horde has been better than fighting them is probably up for debate.


2. Yeah we really do need some more MU orcs, and I guess Kaz the Shrieker is still around for the AU Mag'har.

It's pretty clear it's not camaraderie, they rebel 'seasonally', according to Grom. It's just that for now the orcish bootheel was better than the draenei one.

Kaz being alive was a nice touch. Hopefully we get to see more. The thing with the Mag'har is their clan identities allow them a lot of cooperation, while their Iron Horde theme gives a cohesive identity as well. Zero of the clans we've seen have been peaceful, war is their primary method of being, and they keep the Mists-Garrosh orcish focus, hence why Geya'rah's praise is through the lens of "Well, Sylvie's not an orc, but she'll do."

They are unironically superior to MU orcs despite having no characters and barely any screentime. Goes to show you how irredeemable post-Garrosh orcs are I suppose. But yeah, Shattered Hand can work with Forsaken, Frostwolves and Thunderlords are more in the MU mould, you have the Shadowmoon for any shadowlands/void-related plots, Blackrocks and goblins and so on. They also have distinct kinds of shamanism, from the superstition and blood sacrifice aspect of the Bleeding Hollow, the shamanism as both utility and object of worship of the Blackrock, the traditional Frostwolf approach that gels the best with Thrall/Saurfang's gentrified orcs and so forth. Additionally, you have the whole fish out of water aspect - these are people who were never in Azeroth and to whom the land, culture and history is alien, which is another aspect to be emphasized. Bringing them in has been Blizzard's best decision regarding the orcs in a very, very long time.

I do heavily disagree with @KrakHed on Thrall, as per usual. The orcs only advanced technologically once Garrosh cut the goblin loose and their rapid advances were in the Second War, where they learned to make ships and refine oil. This is demonstrated visually as well in how the people we're meant to root for are in loincloths and chuck spears, while their opponents have giant robot scorpion, advanced industrialization and so on. And further by how once Garrosh is gone the orcs backtrack and their buildings grow more basic and primitive again. Similarly, they were not some advanced civilization - they were attempting to be, but failed because we're talking about people with no history as a cohesive sedentary state operating out of a single city, even less in a desert and even less with agriculture as their main source of sustenance (that wasn't night elven handouts).

[Mehrunes]

Blizzard needed a Zaela-equivalent for their totally-not-MoP-2.0. Her clan and origin is irrelevant, all that matters is that she's a female Orc leader following the Warchief even after the muh honor squad of Alliance sycophants starts a rebellion.

[KrakHed]

The thing with Drek'thar not using shamanism to change the land hasn't aged well though because apparently you can use every OTHER kind of magic to fix the land and it's fine, at least when other cultures do it.

Druids apparently did up Ashenvale and other nelf territories after all.

Well, yes. A lot of stupid things are the result of certain plots not aging well. Durotar was supposed to resemble Draenor.

I do heavily disagree with @KrakHed on Thrall, as per usual. The orcs only advanced technologically once Garrosh cut the goblin loose and their rapid advances were in the Second War, where they learned to make ships and refine oil. This is demonstrated visually as well in how the people we're meant to root for are in loincloths and chuck spears, while their opponents have giant robot scorpion, advanced industrialization and so on. And further by how once Garrosh is gone the orcs backtrack and their buildings grow more basic and primitive again. Similarly, they were not some advanced civilization - they were attempting to be, but failed because we're talking about people with no history as a cohesive sedentary state operating out of a single city, even less in a desert and even less with agriculture as their main source of sustenance (that wasn't night elven handouts).

I'm not talking about technology. I'm talking about adapting to life in a city. While Garrosh rebuilt Orgrimmar with higher technology by letting Goblins run wild, he also rebuilt it as a heat trap. It won't burn down so easily anymore, but it's now an even worse place to live and relies on handouts from Tauren apparently. But the Orcs were apparently doing no worse than Theramore for much of their time. Hell, the Barrens aren't any worse looking than Westfall, and Westfall feeds Stormwind.

I think the truth of the matter is that Orgrimmar feeds itself just fine unless the plot wants to use resources as justification. When was the last time the issue was portrayed as significant?

[Super Dickmann]

I'm not talking about technology I'm talking about adapting to life in a city. While Garrosh rebuilt Orgrimmar with higher technology by letting Goblins run wild, he also rebuilt it as a heat trap. It won't burn down so easily anymore, but it's now an even worse place to live and relies on handouts from Tauren apparently. But the Orcs were apparently doing no worse than Theramore for much of their time. Hell, the Barrens aren't any worse looking than Westfall, and Westfall feeds Stormwind.

Yeah, the metal city in the middle of a desert wasn't exactly a genius move, but hey, it protects from being shot. In general, the whole pollution stuff that only got touched upon and the orcs reacting to rapid industrialization should've been a bigger deal than it was. It ended up just being subtext. Though being temporarily at about the same level as a city built by refugees in the middle of a shitty marsh isn't exactly a high bar to climb, especially since at least later on Theramore is consistently more successful.

As for the Barrens, I'm fairly sure despite the name the lore hasn't been them over the head with how awful they are to live in as Durotar, and most of the farms we see are actually there anyway. They're probably perfectly viable land.

I think the truth of the matter is that Orgrimmar feeds itself just fine unless the plot wants to use resources as justification. When was the last time the issue was portrayed as significant?

The last time the orcs as a race were relevant, rather than happening to be the people Saurfang theoretically leads and Thrall used to lead. When the orcs ran their course, that was quietly ditched as Blizzard hurried to pretend Wrath and Cataclysm didn't happen in Mists.

[Skytotem]

It's pretty clear it's not camaraderie, they rebel 'seasonally', according to Grom. It's just that for now the orcish bootheel was better than the draenei one.

Kaz being alive was a nice touch. Hopefully we get to see more. The thing with the Mag'har is their clan identities allow them a lot of cooperation, while their Iron Horde theme gives a cohesive identity as well. Zero of the clans we've seen have been peaceful, war is their primary method of being, and they keep the Mists-Garrosh orcish focus, hence why Geya'rah's praise is through the lens of "Well, Sylvie's not an orc, but she'll do."

They are unironically superior to MU orcs despite having no characters and barely any screentime. Goes to show you how irredeemable post-Garrosh orcs are I suppose. But yeah, Shattered Hand can work with Forsaken, Frostwolves and Thunderlords are more in the MU mould, you have the Shadowmoon for any shadowlands/void-related plots, Blackrocks and goblins and so on. They also have distinct kinds of shamanism, from the superstition and blood sacrifice aspect of the Bleeding Hollow, the shamanism as both utility and object of worship of the Blackrock, the traditional Frostwolf approach that gels the best with Thrall/Saurfang's gentrified orcs and so forth. Additionally, you have the whole fish out of water aspect - these are people who were never in Azeroth and to whom the land, culture and history is alien, which is another aspect to be emphasized. Bringing them in has been Blizzard's best decision regarding the orcs in a very, very long time.

I do heavily disagree with @KrakHed on Thrall, as per usual. The orcs only advanced technologically once Garrosh cut the goblin loose and their rapid advances were in the Second War, where they learned to make ships and refine oil. This is demonstrated visually as well in how the people we're meant to root for are in loincloths and chuck spears, while their opponents have giant robot scorpion, advanced industrialization and so on. And further by how once Garrosh is gone the orcs backtrack and their buildings grow more basic and primitive again. Similarly, they were not some advanced civilization - they were attempting to be, but failed because we're talking about people with no history as a cohesive sedentary state operating out of a single city, even less in a desert and even less with agriculture as their main source of sustenance (that wasn't night elven handouts).

1. Yeah but that could just be because they're ogres.

2. Now we just gotta know what happened to Cutter.

3. I really want to see Blood Magic developed by Bleeding Hollow and Belfs.

4. Eh, Blackrocks in the AU even before it branched off were pretty sedentary.

[Nize]

What if Geyah'rah continues to side with Sylvanas and she has a 1v1 against Thrall eventually?

[Super Dickmann]

1. Yeah but that could just be because they're ogres.

Hey, I have no issue with it. Kicking the ogres into working with the orcs has always been the Horde way. Rexxar just cut out the middle man and challenged the OG.

2. Now we just gotta know what happened to Cutter.

Hopefully soon. I was hoping Solog Roark got through as well. We need a less comedic mechanical dude as well and that guy would go a long way to explaining us getting the Iron Horde toys back.

3. I really want to see Blood Magic developed by Bleeding Hollow and Belfs.

Yeah, that had a lot of room to expand on. It's a shame the invasions are narrative light because the blood elves draining Torga's body would have resulted in some fun conflict with the Zandalari. That and'd be nice to see how their approach towards this kind of magic where they generally use it for machines or spells jives with the more superstitious ritualistic stuff othe Bleeding Hollow.

As for the Blackrock, yeah, no argument there, but let's face it, they're the most advanced orcs we've seen yet, at least the AU ones.

[The Stormbringer]

I've never gotten why they write Thrall as so gentrified.

He had ONE friendly human point of contact, one good-leaning neutralish sergeant guy, but his primary contact with humans was an abusive drunk and gladiator games.

Because that's just how he was raised. He was raised by humans, even if he himself wasn't human, and he didn't meet another orc for decades if I recall. Your formative years will majorly impact you, my dude.

[Syegfryed]

I'm not really asking why they made her a girl I'm asking why they tied her to Thrall...

Everyone pissing and moaning about female characters is missing the point imo.

because the acceptance its easy when they just genderbend, its not that hard

"hey this is female thrall, like her more because she is like thrall"

[KrakHed]

Because that's just how he was raised. He was raised by humans, even if he himself wasn't human, and he didn't meet another orc for decades if I recall. Your formative years will majorly impact you, my dude.

He was raised in a cell and gladiator arena. With some books and shit. One could also point to the fact that thrall was taught Orcish ways by old sad people. Even Grom was an old sad orc with lots of regrets.

Is it any wonder that Thrall is less rash than the common orc? All his mentors told him that the Orcs made lots of dumb mistakes because they didn't bother to think about what they were doing, or just went along with it anyway. About how they went on a genocidal rampage for vague reasons and Orcs shouting "FOR THE HORDE!".

So, Thrall was taught to not do those things. Those might be Orcy things, but they're Orcy things the Orcs who taught him regret.

The Iron Horde, however, never learned any lessons. Same with the Outland Mag'har. They may represent a purer way of life, but they're also the same savages who were so easily corrupted.

[Iambackagain666]

Wasnt Geyah'rah the only one who supported Sylvanas when she imprisoned Baine for treason?

She knows nothing about the Horde and i doubt she even knows who Thrall was and i wont be surprised if Thrall doesnt know she exists.

It should be interesting when the 2 meet

[Freaking Frumpy Frak]

Because Blizzard is deep within the SJW hellscape that is California, it's only natural that they'd want to gender bend the universe's biggest Mary Sue into a wamyn in the name of diversity.

What if Geyah'rah continues to side with Sylvanas and she has a 1v1 against Thrall eventually?

Thrall and his wicked patriarchal ways would lose for being on the wrong side of history.

[Oneirophobia]

expect her to be a raid boss in 8.3

Every female orc with that particular voice actress is doomed to become a bad guy. Zaela had the same voice.