How come BfA is worse than Legion?

[Castia]

I really enjoyed the class specific content from the Order halls and mounts to the tower and class weapons, it gave me plenty to work towards outside of raiding/dungeons

[MechaCThun]

People like to compare/contrast the Artifact Weapon system and the Azerite Armor system.

Personally, I like the option of customizing certain traits on Azerite Armor... it's just too bad most traits are obsolete or just plain suck ass compared to the stronger, flat out better traits.

[MidnyteTV]

Clearly the Azerite system was the worst feature ever implemented in the history of the game.

Also, removing PL, GCD changes and the Artifact weapon system diminished what was once a stellar game during Legion.

I'm so glad that Legion was my last expansion as a full-time player. Even though I did not play during Argus/ABT, I felt like I got my money's worth that expansion. I hadn't felt that way since Wrath.

[Polarthief]

I say this as someone who has played since Vanilla: BfA gets to contend for the "hands down worst expansion" with WoD. Anyone who thinks otherwise is insane or didn't play when this game was good.

Legion on the other hand was pretty okay. Some bad parts (RNG Legendaries...), but at least I didn't quit during it (like I am just before 8.2 comes out because a major patch has never looked so depressing and full of lies).

[FelPlague]

They took the worst of Legion AND MoP and mashed it together in one giant pile of shit.

what was bad from wod they added to BFA?

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People like to compare/contrast the Artifact Weapon system and the Azerite Armor system.

Personally, I like the option of customizing certain traits on Azerite Armor... it's just too bad most traits are obsolete or just plain suck ass compared to the stronger, flat out better traits.

welcome to pretty much any choice of customization ever
azerite
artifacts
gear
talents
etc.

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It would make sense. WoD's dungeons were shitfests of badly-designed trash mechanics and boss battles that were slogs. Legion's dungeons were fun. BfA's dungeons are shitfests of badly-designed trash mechanics and boss battles that are slogs.

*How dare you talk about motherlode, siege of boralus, temple of seth, freehold, tol dagor, underot shrine of storm, waycrest manor like that.*

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So you’re saying azerite gear is good but the AP system isn’t? I might agree once we get to 8.2 and we actually get the full azerite gear system we were shown at blizzcon but I definitely disagree with azerite gear being good from 8.0-8.1.

*Sorta like how we didnt get the full artifact system till 8.2 and even 8.3*

[kaminaris]

So you’re saying azerite gear is good but the AP system isn’t? I might agree once we get to 8.2 and we actually get the full azerite gear system we were shown at blizzcon but I definitely disagree with azerite gear being good from 8.0-8.1.

Of course. But then again, i am speaking ONLY FOR AZERITE GEAR, not neck, not azerite itself nothing else. JUST azerite gear. And yeah since we didn't have vendor on 8.0-8.1 but blizz learned quickly from failure of legendaries.

Legion was the only expansion that made me quit.

[Alopex Major]

I am stunned at how many people in this thread have said that Legion had a good story, like... yeah, it's not as bad as BFA, but that's not saying much.

[Taeldorian]

what was bad from wod they added to BFA?

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welcome to pretty much any choice of customization ever
azerite
artifacts
gear
talents
etc.

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*How dare you talk about motherlode, siege of boralus, temple of seth, freehold, tol dagor, underot shrine of storm, waycrest manor like that.*

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*Sorta like how we didnt get the full artifact system till 8.2 and even 8.3*

How many times do I have to make it clear I didn’t like artifacts either? I’m completely against these rental gear systems because of how blizzard is using them. They use them to fill out classes and “fill gaps in rotations” (Ion said this himself) which leaves classes barely functional at the baseline level. Both legion beta and BfA beta were an absolute fiasco because of how poorly classes felt before they enabled artifacts/azerite. The only difference is in legion we had tier sets and legendaries to accompany artifacts so it didn’t feel as bad.

I’d much rather they add things back to classes slowly and ensure that they’re good at the baseline level and then they can go about adding shit like this. They’re using artifacts/azerite to complete class design rather than looking at it as a bonus.

If I’m being honest I don’t really think legion or BfA is good. Gearing feels completely soulless due to the RNG fiesta that is the gearing system, a majority of end game content is unengaging and afkable (islands, warfronts, LFR, world quests, etc), the end game grinds lack any sort of variety (AP/rep are grinded out through islands and world quests). There’s a bit more but I’ve alresdy said this shit too many times. Blizzard has had to answer questions related to these issues almost every single QA which should show how much of an issue these systems are based on recent interviews it seems they’re finally coming around so I’m holding out a bit of hope.

[Rhila]

Raiding is raiding, its probably the only consistent thing in wow minus the occasional blips (dragonsoul...)and Bfa has been solid, id argue better than legion for me personally, though im lucky to play one of the few classes/specs with okish design.

Lore has been w/e since the end of wotlk lets be honest, i dont really expect much from the lore anymore, personally i hate the faction war but its no worse than spaceships, time travelling garrosh and panda lore.

How i judge an expansion is the content out of raids, and BFA has been miserable, azerite was a flop, island expeditions a flop, warfronts were a huge flop. The most successful non raid content has been mythic+ which was copied from legion and has suffered from big problems this expansion due to terrible dungeon design. Outside of raids ive started farming collection and transmog achievs, i realised last 2-3 weeks ive spent more time doing decade old content than new content.

Legion was overrated but i never felt so disconnected like this in legion, even at the end of the expansion during the "drought" i had a blast levelling other classes to do the classhalls and mage tower.
BFA? i cant even be bothered to do anything other than tp to raids.

[FelPlague]

-snip-

mate first it was "its 3 actives" no it was 1 active and 2 passives
then it became "the azerite they showed at blizzcon" we already got the azerite they showed at blizzcon

you are just constantly streching the truth

and for proof since you keep refusing to provide any.

literally what they showed at blizzcon

[Alkizon]

oh how soon people seem to forget about legendaries in legion, that most speccs / classes couldnt function without BiS ones. And people also seem to forget about the ridicilous RNG they added for artifact relics in the ship.

The only thing that Bfa is worse than Legion, is the story (lore). It has turned to absolute garbage, with cheesy clichés.

Mostly this ^ (sorry, misquoted at first)

Don't see much interest of problems' detailed discussion that were accumulated more than one expansion, since we did it more than once already (thread doesn't look like something really serious, more like some random stuff being scattered here and there, highly specialized and not talking about own work within system as a whole):

13. Some thoughts about "best expansions"(worst, also WoD&MoP&Cata&WotLK) +(+)+/+/+/+

[Taeldorian]

mate first it was "its 3 actives" no it was 1 active and 2 passives
then it became "the azerite they showed at blizzcon" we already got the azerite they showed at blizzcon

you are just constantly streching the truth

and for proof since you keep refusing to provide any.

literally what they showed at blizzcon

Are you ever going to engage in actual discussion about the post topic or are you just going to nitpick things so you can be as correct as possible as much as possible? That isn’t even remotely important nor was it a point that I was trying to make at all. Notice how the other guy that quoted me answered with something relating to the actual topic and didn’t nitpick some random piece of info that is meaningless. Right, we got the azerite they showed at blizzcon it was just absolutely garbage, my bad. I’m not going to discuss this active vs passive shit with you again, it’s obvious you didn’t understand it the first or the second time and you had 3-4 people correcting you as well.

Honestly, TLDR: youre extremely annoying, stop quoting me just to correct little pieces of random meaningless information. Discuss my points or don’t waste my time. You spent the entire time talking about active vs passive and that wasn’t even my point.

[Tradu]

I'm trying to illustrate that your discussion is basically "is this awful turd better/worse than this awful turd". They both sucked, do we really need to argue over which sucked worse?

That's the entire premise of the thread, though, discussing which of the 2 worst expansions is the worst.

[Gungnir]

I mean, having tier sets with 2set and 4set bonus made those gears too mandatory to have. Now, any lets say 400ilvl legs work, no need to target specific tier legs. I know you could chose what 4 pieces, but to even have 2 pieces mandatory gear was bad. There is a BiS list ofc, but having lets say Crit/Versa pants when the best gear is Master/Haste, is not THAT big a deal. But to have non tier set vs tier set bonuses, was HUGE.

Removal of tier sets was a great thing, now it doesn't matter as much which gear you have.

But that's a very flawed argument.
BiS lists are always built around having the tier sets and whichever pieces has the best itemization for you in order to get maximum DPS while still having 4pc.

You're basically saying that removing tier bonuses that has the potential to be very interesting and even alter your gameplay in certain examples is better because now you can just have simple, uninteresting items that are all haste/mastery?
Why do you think people were inspired and strived towards raiding back in Vanilla/TBC/WotLK/Cata/MoP etc? I can tell you that it wasn't due to a brown pair of pants with haste/mastery on it.

The removal of tier sets and bonuses not only makes the game and raiding in general less interesting, it makes people less enticed to actually TRY raiding because they don't get anything cool from it.
An Azerite piece with the same traits as one from a Voldun emissary isn't as cool as a unique tier set with unique bonuses.

[noragrets]

I felt so comfy in Legion, the zones, the music, the quests, the class hubs, world quests, artifact had good fun skills, Demon Hunters, mythic+ dungeons were fun, Illidan and cool story stuff to this uninteresting bland lore killer expansion.

I can't believe this, it is actually worse than WoD. I can't find joy in this pile of crap. It's not even Warcraft anymore, at least prev expansions felt Warcraftish. This is just some really bad game.

I'm baffled about how people can make their own opinion sound like a fact. It's just what it is, your personal opinion. Quite a few probably share that sentiment, others don't.

I for myself think that they did an overall good job with the raids this expansion so far (except on some bosses with regards to PUGs). Lore didn't get me invested in the game either, but then again I only played Alliance, so no clue whether Horde is more interesting to play.

Music has improved over the last couple months and visually I can't complain either. Having a blast with my Warlock, got lucky definitely for playing one of the better classes in the current game.

Still won't keep me from switching to Classic, however I'm fairly happy about the current state. Nothing's perfect

[Quaade]

I felt so comfy in Legion, the zones, the music, the quests, the class hubs, world quests, artifact had good fun skills, Demon Hunters, mythic+ dungeons were fun, Illidan and cool story stuff to this uninteresting bland lore killer expansion.

I can't believe this, it is actually worse than WoD. I can't find joy in this pile of crap. It's not even Warcraft anymore, at least prev expansions felt Warcraftish. This is just some really bad game.

It was made by a new team who arrogantly thought that they could make the previous team's mistakes better because they were them so never listened or learned anything from the previous team.

[Gelannerai]

B-Team xpac. Legion was pretty good for the most part, so according to the pattern we were due for a fall with BfA.

[Kaver]

Personally I think that WoW is being carried by the art team and the raid designs. The content team and class design team are huge failures.

[Roar-Powah]

Legion for the most part was OK, i didn't like Blizzard trying to force CRZ in the open world and I've all ways been against it as it's very anti-RPG. With that said Legion was still better than WoD but BfA cannot came near these 2 in any sense. Classes feel like shit, they all feel the same pretty much, forced CRZ at every turn and TF/WF, RNG on top of RNG, AP gear/grinds stupid gating on Allied Races, mythic + timers(i hate the rush rush mentally crap) are just bullshit systems to slow you down and keep you subbed for longer(or so they thought). While WoD did have it's issues and did cut some spell's from our books the classes still felt ok to play(I miss MoP class design) it was just a big lack of content for WoD that was the let down.

The Mage Tower(tanking one was badly designed tho, all about dps and not about tanking, like wtf) was a lot of fun, it reminded me from the days of Vanilla on my Hunter trying to kill them damn demons for that week it took me learning it all.

[kaminaris]

B-Team xpac. Legion was pretty good for the most part, so according to the pattern we were due for a fall with BfA.

No it was pretty shit for most of the time until they introduced waking essences. Farming lfr/normal/heroic/mythic for each and every raid that was there just to have a chance to get legend. No thanks.

Classes are on the same level as legion. Not much has changed. People are having some delusions about legion class design. It was shit, just like its now.

For me, only story was better. Rest was either on the same level or worse.