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  1. #221
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again, no. You're equating "time spent" with "difficulty". That's not how it works. Classic is not hard. Just time-consuming, overall.
    Cool.
    TIL that doing green fire quest at ilvl 466 on my warlock back in MoP wasn't actually difficult, because it only took me around 40 or so tries, it was only time consuming.

    Mastering an instrument isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Learning quantum mechanics isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Becoming a pro athlete isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Becoming a strongman isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.


    Wow it's almost like anything that challenges you to the edge of your ability is also time consuming.
    But that also means that they aren't difficult. I never would've guessed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Not really because Dark Souls was designed to be hard, which is not the same thing as Classic.
    I've got 2500 hours in the Souls series, I can run every game without dying or barely even getting hit.
    It's taken me a while to get to this point though, so that means it's time consuming, which now means that it isn't difficult.

    Slavic spaghetti overlord 1, atheists 0. Check mate.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Cool.
    TIL that doing green fire quest at ilvl 466 on my warlock back in MoP wasn't actually difficult, because it only took me around 40 or so tries, it was only time consuming.

    Mastering an instrument isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Learning quantum mechanics isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Becoming a pro athlete isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Becoming a strongman isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.


    Wow it's almost like anything that challenges you to the edge of your ability is also time consuming.
    But that also means that they aren't difficult. I never would've guessed.


    I've got 2500 hours in the Souls series, I can run every game without dying or barely even getting hit.
    It's taken me a while to get to this point though, so that means it's time consuming, which now means that it isn't difficult.

    Slavic spaghetti overlord 1, atheists 0. Check mate.
    "It wasnt harder, it just took longer" its an argument used here since 10 years ago. I see it everyday and it makes zero sence.

    If he is able to answer my question: "Why did it take longer?" without mental gymnastics...i would be surprised.

  3. #223
    I haven't seen any, sure there's the occasional rude comment and sarcastic remark, but fractured beyond belief? Common ...
    Quote Originally Posted by The Darkener View Post
    If you've never worked with Orthodox Jews then you have no idea how dirty they are. Yes, they are very dirty and I don't mean just hygiene
    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    most of the rioters were racist black people with a personal hatred for white people, and it was those bigots who were in fact the primary force engaged in the anarchistic and lawless behavior in Charlottesville.

  4. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by niztheundead87 View Post
    Then classic cata and mop and wod
    I think I'd be happy with Classic Cata... but not really interested in anything beyond it. But i certainly hope they do for those that want it.

  5. #225
    Warchief Gungnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    "It wasnt harder, it just took longer" its an argument used here since 10 years ago. I see it everyday and it makes zero sence.

    If he is able to answer my question: "Why did it take longer?" without mental gymnastics...i would be surprised.
    It's just a fucking shit argument really.
    Unless he somehow meant that time consuming doesn't equal difficulty, but that isn't what he was trying to say either so I'm at a loss.

  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Cool.
    TIL that doing green fire quest at ilvl 466 on my warlock back in MoP wasn't actually difficult, because it only took me around 40 or so tries, it was only time consuming.
    If it wasn't difficult... why did you do it another 39 times? Difficulty is when your skill isn't high enough to overcome. When you go in and do something the first time, it's because your skill overcomes lack of knowledge. When you cannot, it is because your skill level is not high enough to overcome it.

    When it takes 40 times... it's because you have very little skill at all... and had to do it over and over again to allow knowledge to overcome your lack of skill.

    Sometimes it takes 40 attempts to get lucky. :P

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    If it wasn't difficult... why did you do it another 39 times? Difficulty is when your skill isn't high enough to overcome. When you go in and do something the first time, it's because your skill overcomes lack of knowledge. When you cannot, it is because your skill level is not high enough to overcome it.

    When it takes 40 times... it's because you have very little skill at all... and had to do it over and over again to allow knowledge to overcome your lack of skill.

    Sometimes it takes 40 attempts to get lucky. :P
    WoW thats incredible gymnastics

    What is harder for you?
    Going to your nearest store and buy gum.
    Or go to Spain and buy a piece of gum there?

    One just takes longer than the other, yet one is HARDER than the other.

    Why are people...you are just being sarcastic, arent you Maudib? You just trolling us

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    the most annoying thing about the streamers is who they invited. People who never played vanilla or hardly played wow at all, and they keep reporting bugs that aren't even bugs.

    Why on heavens name did blizzard not invite every active wow player today that actually played vanilla ? (and before anyone accuses me of saying that because i just want a beta invite for myself, i didn't opt in to the beta, so thats not why)
    The idea of the beta isn't for finding/fixing bugs, it is to get the hypetrain rolling. Who cares if you played it back then if you're not going to stream and hype it 'now'.

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    It's just a fucking shit argument really.
    Unless he somehow meant that time consuming doesn't equal difficulty, but that isn't what he was trying to say either so I'm at a loss.
    Is it that shit tho ? you did less dmg, mobs had more health. making the mob die slower. Now if you see the mechanics of said mob. Mechanically. Everything in vanilla raids is like todays lfr or even easier.

    Just look up tactics for ragnaros, kel'thuzad, C'thun. Look at their abilities. Its rather simple. No hard mechanics, its all very basic. Only thing that made it "hard" was the fact that dps classes were not balanced one bit. Health numbers were out of wack. you simply had to hit a rather simple boss for longer and if your healers didn't have the gear for it, the mana went oom, your tank went boom and everyone had a bad time.

    If you put the exact same team from method that killed mythic jaina into vanilla. fill up the remaining slots of, well, randoms, they would clear every vanilla raid in 1 day. The mindset of players today is nothing like it was in vanilla. A guild raiding 16 hours a day for world first wasn't even a concept in vanilla

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HuxNeva View Post
    The idea of the beta isn't for finding/fixing bugs, it is to get the hypetrain rolling. Who cares if you played it back then if you're not going to stream and hype it 'now'.
    then call it a pr event or demo. Not beta

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Is it that shit tho ? you did less dmg, mobs had more health. making the mob die slower. Now if you see the mechanics of said mob. Mechanically. Everything in vanilla raids is like todays lfr or even easier.

    Just look up tactics for ragnaros, kel'thuzad, C'thun. Look at their abilities. Its rather simple. No hard mechanics, its all very basic. Only thing that made it "hard" was the fact that dps classes were not balanced one bit. Health numbers were out of wack. you simply had to hit a rather simple boss for longer and if your healers didn't have the gear for it, the mana went oom, your tank went boom and everyone had a bad time.

    If you put the exact same team from method that killed mythic jaina into vanilla. fill up the remaining slots of, well, randoms, they would clear every vanilla raid in 1 day. The mindset of players today is nothing like it was in vanilla. A guild raiding 16 hours a day for world first wasn't even a concept in vanilla
    We are talking about leveling, not raiding.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maudib View Post
    If it wasn't difficult... why did you do it another 39 times? Difficulty is when your skill isn't high enough to overcome. When you go in and do something the first time, it's because your skill overcomes lack of knowledge. When you cannot, it is because your skill level is not high enough to overcome it.

    When it takes 40 times... it's because you have very little skill at all... and had to do it over and over again to allow knowledge to overcome your lack of skill.

    Sometimes it takes 40 attempts to get lucky. :P
    You do realize that ilvl 466 was about 20 ilvls under the minimum recommended at the time?
    Also, if you lack the skill to do something.. that something would be in fact considered as hard for the person. This has to be the dumbest post I have ever read in my life.



    Quote Originally Posted by glowpipe View Post
    Is it that shit tho ? you did less dmg, mobs had more health. making the mob die slower. Now if you see the mechanics of said mob. Mechanically. Everything in vanilla raids is like todays lfr or even easier.

    Just look up tactics for ragnaros, kel'thuzad, C'thun. Look at their abilities. Its rather simple. No hard mechanics, its all very basic. Only thing that made it "hard" was the fact that dps classes were not balanced one bit. Health numbers were out of wack. you simply had to hit a rather simple boss for longer and if your healers didn't have the gear for it, the mana went oom, your tank went boom and everyone had a bad time.

    If you put the exact same team from method that killed mythic jaina into vanilla. fill up the remaining slots of, well, randoms, they would clear every vanilla raid in 1 day. The mindset of players today is nothing like it was in vanilla. A guild raiding 16 hours a day for world first wasn't even a concept in vanilla
    Mobs did more damage, you had less mana, you had less self healing, you had a vastly higher chance of dying when put in a bad situation.
    By definition, since you had a much lower chance of succeeding if you fucked up, literally means it's hard.

    I don't understand how people fail to comprehend this simple fucking concept.
    Let me put this into something you can hopefully understand.. make mythic Jaina do 80% less damage. You now have almost no chance of wiping even when you make mistakes.
    Is it still considered hard?
    Now you make mythic Jaina do 80% more damage. A single mistake will mean the entire raid wipes.
    Would you call this hard?

  12. #232
    @Gungnir
    Are we trying to destroy one of the most used arguments on vanilla threads? We are making history.
    I was here.

    Im afraid MMO-C community will not give up and let this one pass. Its impossible.
    This argument is simply used too much for it to happen

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    You do realize that ilvl 466 was about 20 ilvls under the minimum recommended at the time?
    Also, if you lack the skill to do something.. that something would be in fact considered as hard for the person. This has to be the dumbest post I have ever read in my life.




    Mobs did more damage, you had less mana, you had less self healing, you had a vastly higher chance of dying when put in a bad situation.
    By definition, since you had a much lower chance of succeeding if you fucked up, literally means it's hard.

    I don't understand how people fail to comprehend this simple fucking concept.
    Let me put this into something you can hopefully understand.. make mythic Jaina do 80% less damage. You now have almost no chance of wiping even when you make mistakes.
    Is it still considered hard?
    Now you make mythic Jaina do 80% more damage. A single mistake will mean the entire raid wipes.
    Would you call this hard?
    Watching you trying to educate these cretins is an entertaining experience.

  14. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    @Gungnir
    Are we trying to destroy one of the most used arguments on vanilla threads? We are making history.
    I was here.

    Im afraid MMO-C community will not give up and let this one pass. Its impossible.
    This argument is simply used too much for it to happen
    It's just ridiculous that people even try to use it as an argument.
    Difficulty is proportionally tied to your ability to complete the task at hand, and your ability to complete the task at hand drastically goes down the more damage you have to deal with and the less self-healing and tools you have.

    Since Vanilla had an EXTREME amount of proportional mob damage versus your health, and the fact that unless you were a hybrid you had no self-healing, Vanilla leveling is very much by definition hard.
    It just boggles my mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post
    Watching you trying to educate these cretins is an entertaining experience.
    I can't believe I'm having this discussion in the first place.
    I mean shit, if having a low chance of success against overwhelming adds isn't actually "hard", what the fuck even IS hard at that point?

  15. #235
    If only the sub was shared and you could play both... Oh wait...

  16. #236
    Why even bother? People enjoy and play whatever games they want. In this case its either classic, retail OR BOTH(Yeah I know, crazy).

    Who even gives a shit what other people prefer? Want classic, good on you. Want retail, good on you. Non of us are special and have the "higher ground" when it comes to deciding what others should like or dislike.

    Personally im looking forward to checking out classic and play that part of wow again. Will I stick to it? No idea, just gotta wait and see how it feels.

  17. #237
    The idea of basing a game around tribalism and division is that the playerbase is going to be tribal and divided. It's why I wish they'd drop or lessen the whole "red vs blue" branding they love for ages now, especially considering how stale the conflict is lorewise.

    WoW's playerbase has constantly tried to divide itself and create stupid conflicts in a way I haven't seen from any other fanbase.

  18. #238
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
    Mastering an instrument isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Learning quantum mechanics isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Becoming a pro athlete isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Becoming a strongman isn't difficult, it's just time consuming.
    Yeah, no. Those require actual effort. You can 'brain-dead' your leveling through WoW, vanilla or otherwise. The only difference is time taken.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  19. #239
    Lol this whole debate is no different than Melee vs. <Insert newer Smash game>. Just play the game you enjoy and leave it at that.

  20. #240
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Togabito View Post
    Why does it take longer? -___-
    Because you need more XP, the mobs and quest give less XP (I think?) and mobs take longer to die. That's not difficulty. Difficulty requires effort. There is no effort in leveling. Just time requirement.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

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