1. #10321
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Yet Alleria is the only individual at all who has these tattoos, despite the fact they were a prominent feature of High Elven units in Warcraft 2. Either they are unique to Alleria or they are part of the heritage of the Blood/Alliance High Elves and could be considered as a future customization option. Either outcome is perfectly acceptable.
    What would not be acceptable is an insistence that these tattoos are a possible differentiating factor for Alliance High Elves, which they are not due to being a part of the common heritage of the high elf race.
    There are a lot more possible options than just those 2. The only thing we can tell for sure is that Alleria uses war paint/tattoos at least since she joined the fight alongside the Alliance, and that at least some part of the Elven Rangers following her during the WC2 campaign did as well. Since no further info has been given about it, anything from it being a common thalassian cultural expression to it being used only among the farstriders to it being just a niche thing Alleria herself came up with and some of her followers adopted with it not at all being part of thalassian culture/heritage beyond that, or even other options aligning to the few hard facts we have is a possibility (or Blizzard could retcon things as always, but obviously things sticking to the current facts is preferable).

  2. #10322
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    <snip>
    I see someone has leaked the secretly recorded meeting where they decided what the first four of BfA's allied races would be.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  3. #10323
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I see someone has leaked the secretly recorded meeting where they decided what the first four of BfA's allied races would be.
    Very biased fan fiction.

    Also, Mag'har are asspull too. From what I remember there is another Mag'har faction in Outland. These orcs would make more sense.

    And fat humans are the highest effort allied race. They have completely new model.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  4. #10324
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Very biased fan fiction.
    I'm sorry you couldn't tell the joke in my post. Perhaps I should start using [WARNING: JOKE AHEAD] tags in the future?

    Also, Mag'har are asspull too.
    They're not "ass-pulls". Mag'har from AU Draenor were introduced two expansions ago, and had a lot of lore development for them. Lightforged draenei? Little to no lore. Void Elves? Literally no lore at all.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  5. #10325
    Just popping in to show my support for NO high elfs.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  6. #10326
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Very biased fan fiction.
    Someone has no sense of humor.

    Why so serious?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Just popping in to show my support for NO high elfs.
    And yet you bump the high elf thread. Where's the logic?
    Whatever...

  7. #10327
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Very biased fan fiction.

    Also, Mag'har are asspull too. From what I remember there is another Mag'har faction in Outland. These orcs would make more sense.

    And fat humans are the highest effort allied race. They have completely new model.
    You can at least play the fantasy of an uncorrupted Horde Orc, which I think the vast majority are happy with, seeing as I don't see numerous threads on the "these Mag'har aren't from Outland!". It must not be that big of a deal.

    There's still no way to play the fantasy of an uncorrupted Alliance High Elf.

  8. #10328
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Just popping in to show my support for NO high elfs.
    Just repopping in to show my support for high elves! Hopefully they will come soon!

    I already have the perfect characters waiting for a race change when high elves and san'layn become playable (eventually)

  9. #10329
    Quote Originally Posted by Riversong View Post
    It's a childish attempt to trigger someone into responding to him so he feels justified in being an asshole, tbh people like this are just best left on ignore and or reported for trolling, So any news for you guys on the High elf front yet?
    No. I come here because I want high elves to be playable. Not for me, I am blood elf fan, but for players who are patiently waiting for race that makes sense in lore.

    That said, I hate when Alliance players try to convince everyone that they are victims, and thus they need special treatment. Horde lives matter.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  10. #10330
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    No. I come here because I want high elves to be playable. Not for me, I am blood elf fan, but for players who are patiently waiting for race that makes sense in lore.

    That said, I hate when Alliance players try to convince everyone that they are victims, and thus they need special treatment. Horde lives matter.
    He was talking about Strippling.

    And about the "fan fiction", like it or not, the Alliance allied races from Legion were pretty much slot-filling choices devoid of development like the Horde ones got. I was expecting them to be featured heavily and developed in BfA, but nope. Just cameos, mobs in invasions and a small role in the war campaign.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-20 at 06:41 PM.
    Whatever...

  11. #10331
    Classic's gonna be a weird experience for a great number of blood elf players previously unfamiliar with vanilla seeing as the only high elves available will be Alliance high elves, with a few neutral exceptions.

    Classic will only reinforce the position for playable Alliance high elves and further accentuate the reasoning behind the requests for them. Void elves might've been the nail in the coffin for playable Alliance races, but the reasoning behind the requests for them becoming playable is as firm as ever and has a great number of points that back it up in the lore.
    Last edited by Magnagarde; 2019-05-20 at 07:06 PM.

  12. #10332
    Day 541, supplies running low, fresh water almost gone.

    No High Elves in sight...

  13. #10333
    Quote Originally Posted by Riversong View Post
    It's a childish attempt to trigger someone into responding to him so he feels justified in being an asshole, tbh people like this are just best left on ignore and or reported for trolling, So any news for you guys on the High elf front yet?
    So it's not considered trolling when high elfers post in here or other forums "here to show my support for high elfs" but apparently it's trolling when I post to reiterate my support for NO high elfs?

    Double standards.

    This is a megathread for AND against high elfs. I'm within my rights to express my support, whether for or against.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    I was expecting them to be featured heavily and developed in BfA, but nope. Just cameos, mobs in invasions and a small role in the war campaign.
    Just like the Horde ARs. Stop playing the "Alliance victim" card.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  14. #10334
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Just like the Horde ARs. Stop playing the "Alliance victim" card.
    Highmountain: One comic, one leveling zone in Legion, one dungeon.
    Nightborne: One comic, a cinematic just covering their past, one max level zone in Legion, one of the best storylines in the history of the game, 2 dungeons, one raid.
    Mag'har: Three comics, a series of animated shorts, one whole expansion.
    Zandalari: Classic race, revamped in MoP, Three zones and three first patches of BfA.

    Dark Iron: Classic race.
    Kul Tirans: Three zones and three first patches of BfA.

    And now the outliers:
    Lightforged draenei: Quickly introduced as part of Argus, but the story didn't delve a lot in their racial traits or culture. Ignored since them, except for a few cameos or as mobs for Horde to fight.
    Void elves: Didn't exist until made playable. Minor roles since then.

    You can't deny Lightforged draenei and void elves drew the short stick in story development. Both new races, neither fleshed out.
    Void elves in particular are in this bizarre state that makes them neither Legion nor BfA content, as neither expansion had anything to do with them.

    And the neverending high elf requests were in part caused by how lazy and unrelatable the void elf introduction was. Maybe if they had any compelling story people would not reject them so fast.
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-21 at 12:44 AM.
    Whatever...

  15. #10335
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Highmountain: One comic, one leveling zone in Legion, one dungeon.
    Nightborne: One comic, a cinematic just covering their past, one max level zone in Legion, one of the best storylines in the history of the game, 2 dungeons, one raid.
    Mag'har: Three comics, a series of animated shorts, one whole expansion.
    Zandalari: Classic race, revamped in MoP, Three zones and three first patches of BfA.

    Dark Iron: Classic race.
    Kul Tirans: Three zones and three first patches of BfA.

    And now the outliers:
    Lightforged draenei: Quickly introduced as part of Argus, but the story didn't delve a lot in their racial traits or culture. Ignored since them, except for a few cameos or as mobs for Horde to fight.
    Void elves: Didn't exist until made playable. Minor roles since then.

    You can't deny Lightforged draenei and void elves drew the short stick in story development. Both new races, neither fleshed out.
    Void elves in particular are in this bizarre state that makes them neither Legion nor BfA content, as neither expansion had anything to do with them.

    And the neverending high elf requests were in part caused by how lazy and unrelatable the void elf introduction was. Maybe if they had any compelling story people would not reject them so fast.
    You conveniently neglect so many instances where Alliance ARs have been featured. This seems to be a trend with high elf and alliance "victim complexes" all together.

    Dark Iron: Classic race. Featured heavily in 2 zones (searing gorge and badlands) and featured occasionally in several other zones/areas (Wetlands, Loch Modan, Burning Steepes, Dun Morogh). DID have also been featured during Cata (war of three hammers, featured in several zones), MoP (Domination Point, defending Ironforge 'Blood in the Snow', helped rebuild the Jade Serpent), WoD (Bastion Rise), Legion (help defend Dun Morogh against the legion, some DID joined the conclave). DID also featured in BfA. Additionally, BRD dungeon, MC raid (entire raid is stooped behind DID history) and even BWD raid in Cata. DID also featured in Uldaman. DID talked about in WoW Chronicles I. One comic "Fault Lines" (focuses on Magni and his daughter Moira... leader of the DID). One short story (the council of three hammers). DID have a tonne of lore behind them, yet you purposefully just added "classic race" to marginalize them. Nice try.

    Kul Tirans: You claim Mag'har have three comics and a series of animated shorts which are all based on heroes/leaders of the race. Using your logic, Jaina (hero and leader of Kul Tiras) is featured in pretty much every expansion, she's in 6-7 books (with war crimes and BtS focusing a lot on her), has a comic, is the end boss of a raid in BfA, multiple in-game cinematics etc. So likewise, Kul Tirans have several books, expansions, a raid, a comic, multiple cinematics, and three zones and three first patches of BfA worth of lore behind them.

    Lightforged draenei: Heavily involved in Argus (not just a zone but an entire patch). Turaylon is their leader, so like I stated above, if you want to use Mag'har leaders as a basis of lore content for an entire race then we'll apply the same logic to Turaylon. Which includes in-game cinematics, story beats from previous expansions, etc..

    Void Elfs: Again, anything involving Alleria must be counted as void elf lore (using your logic of Mag'har leaders). She has in-game cinematics, a comic, lots of history. Plus, high elfers love to focus on "void elfs being blood elfs, not high elfs"... so if we go by that logic then all of the blood elf history and lore up until end of Legion applies to void elfs as well. So they are stooped with history and lore. WHich funnily enough is shared with the alliance high elfs as well (albeit a few years, which is nothing compared to the life span of elfs).

    Nice try playing the victim card.
    Last edited by Strippling; 2019-05-21 at 02:18 AM.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  16. #10336
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Yada yada yada
    First off, I have no idea why you bothered to talk about kul tirans or dark irons, since I didn't point any problems with them.

    Lightforged draenei: Heavily involved in Argus (not just a zone but an entire patch). Turaylon is their leader, so like I stated above, if you want to use Mag'har leaders as a basis of lore content for an entire race then we'll apply the same logic to Turaylon. Which includes in-game cinematics, story beats from previous expansions, etc..
    Tell me anything that makes the lightforged draenei a unique culture apart from Draenei. Any little detail, custom, different phylosophy.
    Tell me any moment in the Argus campaign in which we delve in their culture, on how they see things. Tell me any moment after it in which we stopped to see how they adapt to finally settling in a world after millenia of war.

    And no, Turalyon in no way is comparable with the mag'har leaders. Each mag'har leader showcased the culture of the clan they were born in or created. Throught them, we learned the customs of Shattered Hand, Bleeding Hollow, Warsong. Turalyon was a human born in Lordaeron who was then conscripted to fight on the big war against the Legion. He's not even draenei, for starters.

    Compare lightforged lore with highmountain, where we met those tauren's several tribes (Rivermane, Skyhorn, Blood Totem, Iron Horn) and leaders, there were several highlighted differences between them and tauren (river magic, metalsmithing, eagles, drogbar allies, a dragon spiritual guide). The "golden draenei" pale in details compared to even "taurens with moose antlers".

    But even the lightforged are way better than the worst case of all: void elves.

    Void Elfs: Again, anything involving Alleria must be counted as void elf lore (using your logic of Mag'har leaders). She has in-game cinematics, a comic, lots of history. Plus, high elfers love to focus on "void elfs being blood elfs, not high elfs"... so if we go by that logic then all of the blood elf history and lore up until end of Legion applies to void elfs as well. So they are stooped with history and lore. WHich funnily enough is shared with the alliance high elfs as well (albeit a few years, which is nothing compared to the life span of elfs).
    Alleria shares no origin or history with the void elves. The creation of the void elves is not even a direct result of her choices, nor was their choice of studying the void related in any way to hers. It was a big coincidence that a totally random group of elves shared interests.

    Void elf introduction is the worst story of any playable race in the game.

    For instance, consider this: void elves didn’t merit even their own reputation faction you could quest with and earn the trust as their prerequisites. The reputation used had nothing to do with them, and that alone proves how there was no setup. The requisite is there for purely mechanical purposes, a to-do list that has nothing to do with the narrative.

    Second, the story that is used as a prerequisite, Alleria’s story, fails to seed or foreshadow the void elves in any way. That alone is not a sin, but since the race didn’t exist back then, and no narrative tropes were used to build up towards their birth, it means their introduction would require a lot more care in order to have a good structure.

    Third, that care never came. Their story is hushed and depthless. You are told the basic things: there’s this elf called Umbric that studies the void, go find him and his followers. But you never delve into them. You never see their story beyond this basic premise, you don’t meet them, don’t talk to them, don’t get to know their outlook on things. Once you find Umbric, he’s put out of comission by the ethereals.

    Who are these ethereals? Where they came from? What were they doing there? No Clues, no answer. They were just there.

    Then you save the elves, and, yay, they are transformed. Let’s explore what that transformation means? How they cope with it? What advantages and drawbacks it has? No. The void elves pledge themselves to the Alliance without even requiring a moment to think, and you are sent back to Stormwind to report your success. The end.

    It’s a by-the-numbers effort that just runs over the bare minimum narrative elements of a introductory story. It never delves in the details, it never stops to tell the tales of these elves, it never tries to make you care about them, sympathize with them.

    Like their unlocking requisites, the story presented is just a mechanic, a to-do list with the objective of enabling another race in your character creation menu, instead of fleshing out its lore.

    Nice try playing the victim card.
    Pointing out bad stories is not playing victim. And pretending those stories had quality does not make them any better.

    It's so bad we don't even know if/how void elves can create more of themselves, and the race has been out for almost 16 months!
    Last edited by DeicideUH; 2019-05-21 at 03:09 AM.
    Whatever...

  17. #10337
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Snip

    But even the lightforged are way better than the worst case of all: void elves.
    Let's say void elfs are the worst case of all; on the other hand... DID are easily the best case of all the ARs. Their lore and involvement since vanilla outweighs any of the other ARs.

    On that basis, the "worst case void elfs" is counter balanced by the "best case DID". So in terms of AR lore, things are equal between both factions. And stop trying to marginalize LF Draenei, we learnt and saw plenty about them on Argus. We even had a three series audio drama discussing in great detail about these LF draenei. You conveniently left that out too. None of the Horde ARs got that treatment. Again, stop victimizing the Alliance. Your ARs had equal "love and attention" given to them. The fact that high elfs weren't added does not mean "Blizzard doesn't care", it merely shows that they prioritize faction identity when considering races... which shouldn't be astonishing, given this game has always revolved around two separate and distinct factions.
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  18. #10338
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Let's say void elfs are the worst case of all; on the other hand... DID are easily the best case of all the ARs. Their lore and involvement since vanilla outweighs any of the other ARs.
    Nope that's a joke. The Zandalari Trolls are the best case of all ARs so far.

  19. #10339
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Nope that's a joke. The Zandalari Trolls are the best case of all ARs so far.
    How so?

    10char
    Blood elves are our high elves - Chris Metzen

  20. #10340
    Quote Originally Posted by Strippling View Post
    Let's say void elfs are the worst case of all; on the other hand... DID are easily the best case of all the ARs. Their lore and involvement since vanilla outweighs any of the other ARs.

    On that basis, the "worst case void elfs" is counter balanced by the "best case DID". So in terms of AR lore, things are equal between both factions. And stop trying to marginalize LF Draenei, we learnt and saw plenty about them on Argus. We even had a three series audio drama discussing in great detail about these LF draenei. You conveniently left that out too. None of the Horde ARs got that treatment. Again, stop victimizing the Alliance. Your ARs had equal "love and attention" given to them. The fact that high elfs weren't added does not mean "Blizzard doesn't care", it merely shows that they prioritize faction identity when considering races... which shouldn't be astonishing, given this game has always revolved around two separate and distinct factions.
    While the new Dark Iron are awesome, I kinda gripe at the fact that since Vanilla you could already make one with the skins available when creating a new Dwarf... and it was the only thing Mag'har fans were asking for since at least Cata (a brown complexion option).

    ...I had a lot of fun rolling a Dwarf Warlock when it was possible, thematically making him a Dark Iron with appropriate complexion and eye color, but now I'm stuck with my Dark Iron Warlock who's not a Dark Iron... (not a fan of race changes, I like my alts to have their own histories)
    Last edited by Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang; 2019-05-21 at 09:33 AM.

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