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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by duselsteiner View Post
    I think the complete hype about classic is ridiculous. I mean.. people have forgotten all the downsides of classic with their nostalgic view on what it was.

    Reminds me to the launch of SWTOR, Wildstar and other failed MMORPGs. When people talked about "the big wow killers", which just killed themself. Classic is the same hype. And will have the same result. A lot of people who will create a char. A lot of people who quit after 2 weeks after they discovered how pathetic classic was.
    Why are you still talking about nostalgia. The beta has been out for days and virtually everyone who has played it has come to realise why the classic (i.e. pre-cata) formula was so much more immersive for an MMO, even those who were skeptical before. It's not even a debate any more, you might as well just accept you were wrong now. This is not some abstract idea, it's real and people are playing it and enjoying it and it's created more interest in WoW than most recent expansion releases.

    Do people honestly think all the hype generated from levelling 0-30 is suddenly going to disappear at end game?

    Why do you continually list the inconveniences and lack of quality of life features as a negative when people are literally screaming at you that this is what they prefer and the reasons for why.

    The saying "There are none so blind as those who will not see" could hardly be more appropriate.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leotheras the Blind View Post
    The only problem that I have with classic is that you have to pay the full sub for it. There's zero new content ever coming out for it, and for how dated everything is, it could probably run on a smart fridge, let alone I'm sure that they're older servers they already own will be able to handle the game. So why not either let it be "free" with full subscription (like it currently is) but, allow those of us that only want to play classic to be able to play at half sub cost.
    I could see them offering a discounted 'Classic Only' option once the initial hype train dies down. Right now the idea seems to be enticing retail players to give it a shot as an added bonus/to keep them subscribed during content lulls (nothing to do in Nazjatar, Billy? Why not go level up your hunter in Classic until something new drops?).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    I get what you are saying but IMHO, they sacrificed too much for "better flow and single player-like experience". If you like it, more power to you, but if I want play good game, with great flow, great quests, I play Witcher 3 for example. But if I want play great MMORPG, currently, there is very limited selection on market and honestly, Classic seems to be hitting all important marks for me.

    So thankfully, players can now choose, what they want to play.
    i disagree. i dont see classic as being a better MMORPG experience. its just a very grindy game

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daffan View Post
    flows so good it plays itself.
    not even remotely true but whatever you seem like one of those classic crazy people who hate on live. Probably think classic is harder too when its just a grind, nothing hard about it.

  4. #184
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    I just find it interesting to see people reflect on why it can be more fun to actually be in danger from time to time,
    than to be stuck in godmode like you are on live/retail. Things I've been saying for a long, long time.

    People don't complain about things getting easier and yet at a certain point it just stops being immersive. You stop caring about gear upgrades, potions, other classes buffs etc, because they don't matter if you can pull entire mob camps and AoE it down with ease.

    Classic leveling is immersive while retail's is coma-inducing. Which is a funny contrast considering just how slow and repetitive classic leveling is.
    And yet somehow people are more immersed in Classic than ARPG WoW: Cosmetics of Mountcraft.


    Naysayers should try a decent private realm if they haven't got beta and give it a dozen hours or so, maybe they'll see why.
    BFA is a better "game" (judged in a vacuum) but a shitty MMORPG in comparison.
    Active WoW player Jan 2006 - Aug 2020
    Occasional WoW Classic Andy since.
    Nothing lasts forever, as they say.
    But at least I can casually play Classic and remember when MMORPGs were good.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Answer is simple. No one knows. No one. The game might maintain and be the greatest thing ever, it might fail horribly within a month.

    Honestly? Rift Prime had the most positive beginning ever. Lots of players, major hype, the server was packed and streamers everywhere. A couple of months later, it was dead. Sure, it was due to absolute stupidity by the Devs, but point remains. Early hype is just that. Hype.
    I'm just asking what is more likely. The love-fest there has been for 0-30 is not suddenly going to disappear at 60, that notion is just ridiculous.

    Comparisons to other games that flopped is such a reach, we are talking about the game that all other MMOs tried to emulate for years to come. It's an objectively good game that is tried and tested. It will be successful, there is no question about that, the only thing we "don't know" is whether it will be wildly successful and overtake retail or just maintain a healthy player base.

    What you fail to understand is that the success or failure of this game never did ride on whether there would be enough interest, it always depended on whether Blizzard could create a faithful replication.
    Last edited by WowClassic; 2019-05-20 at 08:50 PM.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    The baffling part to me isn't that guys like venruki finally came around, its that they didn't remember this in the first place lol. Ive been playing non stop since mid 06 and its so blatantly obvious to me that the game has become a worse mmo over the years i have to wonder how people who have been playing as long as i have dont think the same thing.

    Sure not everything is perfect and in an ideal world the best WoW would take small parts from each expansion, but thinking that the game that started it all and pulled in nearly 8 million players in under 2 years was all nostalgia is kinda wonky logic.
    This the problem with post like this one right here. It was not the game that made the game what it was back then. It was the 8 million people that created a wonderful community that made the game what it was. The content also back then was more about the journey through that content and the endgame was more of an after thought. Classic WoW was great from the standpoint of the Communities, realms, guilds, and players who chose to play the game. The games slow pace was rewarded by becoming friends with complete strangers that eventually became part of a community that made this game what it was. Problem is, unless those 8 million or 8 million people like them with the same level of mentality and play style do not come to the current Classical version then it will be nothing like what WoW was really like back then. It was not the game itself that made WoW a great game. It was the Community itself that was created in the early days of this game that made the game into what it was. There is no way that Community will ever exist again, because people today have a far different mindset than the people that originally played this game. Many also have lived through the refinements over the course of time that made the game far more tolerable to want to play.

    The Quality of life improvements for one over time have been great. Though I will admit that Blizzard went way to far in trying to keep people playing this game for all the wrong reasons. They literally pinned a community against itself the more and more refinements they made to the game itself. Giving people more stuff has literally been the death of this game. Not having to really work for much of anything has created a community of entitlement across the board. In trying to make a closer community, Blizzard over time found away to divide that community more and more from itself. What made WoW pre-cata was the Community that was able to thrive within the game. That is what got me started playing this game. If it were not for the Community that was in place when I first joined, I would not have never started playing in the first place.

    Cata or I like to say, post Icecrown Citadel WoW was nothing like what I remember when I first started playing WoW. From that point the people I started playing the game with started to leave because of the changes either to the game that was or their own lives or both at the same time that made walking away from the game easier and easier before Cata ever was released. The two longstanding guild I had joined from the start of my playing days of WoW literally died as a result of the changes Blizzard had made to that point or the changes that were coming in post Cata that many people just could not live with and chose to leave the game or more on to something else altogether. The Community at that point no matter which realm turned to absolute crap. The worst of the worst type of mindset of a players took over and made the Community literally crap over night. It was not the inexperienced players who made the game go in the tank. It was those that had zero tolerance for those very casual types of players that made the Community what it became post Cata.

    This the problem when people go down memory lane in this game or even in life itself. What was, is never going to be again, because that would require a player base that took a game and made it into what it was. Blizzard just helped to bring it altogether with the content they created. Even the designers and developers were of a different mindset at the beginning of this journey through WoW. They made it better over the passage of time, though whoever choose to go over the top did not see what it was that truly made this game what it was. They saw dollar signs the more and more people chose to join the community. Eventually those dollar signs were the absolute death of a community that made the game what it was, not all the crap that got dumped into the game as a means of continuing to dangle a carrot in front of the faces of people that would continue to play despite all the changes to both the game and the community itself.

    I miss the old part of this game a lot, but I know it was not the content that made me play back then. It was the community of people that made me want to play and continue to want to play even when I had little time to actually play the game. Those friendships from all over the country, as well as in some instance around the world were great, the people I got to play game along with from young to old and everywhere in between were just absolute priceless in every way. The guilds and realms I played on, along with all those people I befriended over time made for a wonderful experience to enjoy on a nightly basis.

    Those 8 million people you mentioned are why WoW was the game it was and it had nothing to do with the content that made those people into a community of people that would literally take this game to levels it would later achieve. People around the world made WoW the game of choice, somewhere along the way the people at Blizzard or at least some of them lost the vision that was right in front of them that made WoW into the success it was. When Blizzard chose to piss that all away, that player based started to wain over time to what it eventually became. Blizzard literally killed the community that it helped to establish with its game and content.
    Last edited by Apexis; 2019-05-20 at 08:52 PM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Nice assumption there. Do you like talking for others and assuming you know their inner thought processes IRL as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by Howlrunner View Post
    Just wait, see, and make your own opinion. Telling everyone else they have to acknowledge and respect yours, then making assumptions to their ability to make their own just makes you look a bit of an arsehole tbh.
    Sorry, but facts don't care about your feelings.

    We knew there would be enough interest given that there was a MILLION people playing on a private server run by amateurs. When you add the weight of Blizzard behind it and official servers, faithfully replicated, it's simply inevitable that there will be enough interest to make it worthwhile. The only thing that could cause it to fail was Blizzard. The interest and the love for the game was never in question for anyone paying attention.

    And yes it will be replicated, you are simply daft to doubt it. This is a game that millions of people fell in love with. The only question is whether it will be successful or "retail blown out of the water" successful.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by marcusblood View Post
    Classic WoW is named Classic for a reason. It's old. Some may like, some may not.

    I personally enjoy the quality of retail game overall. I enjoy better graphics, achievements, Transmog, the new classes, etc.

    I don't want Classic to fail. Anything WoW-related I prefer does exceptionally well. I preferred it never came to fruition.

    Why?

    It's purely nostalgia. People don't necessarily want what Classic WoW was in terms of functionality and gameplay (some do), they want the sense of community back.

    Well, as someone who successfully ran a community oriented PvE guild for over 3 years, we brought back that classic community in our own way. We did it ourselves. Players are currently fully capable of doing it they just choose not to. Making Blizzard implement classic servers in the manner at which it was done is not good overall for the game. The pro-classic crowd was incessantly abrasive towards anybody that disagreed with it. So that is why I will not play classic. I saw the vitriol they had towards other people, yet they claimed they wanted community back. Those are the last people I want to play WoW with.

    Also, I think that the game is best suited at retail, because changes could be made that can reinvigorate the hardcores and bring on newer players. I have a young son that i would like to play WoW with, he certainly won't have the patience for Classic (neither do I) when there are games like Fortnite and PUBG that can easily detract his attention away from a game like WoW.
    Again, it’s not nostalgia when hundreds of thousands have been playing and enjoying vanilla for years, like literally right now.

  9. #189
    There was a reason WoW was the best mmo on the market for as long as it was. SWG, EQ, EQ2, Ultima online, and camelot got stomped out by WoW, while all those games had their good points and systems, wow still came out on top.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    There was a reason WoW was the best mmo on the market for as long as it was. SWG, EQ, EQ2, Ultima online, and camelot got stomped out by WoW, while all those games had their good points and systems, wow still came out on top.
    BECAUSE WoW Was THE casual MMO game for its time, and many people bought it because of WARCRAFT 3 and ofc Diablo 2 success, which brought people to play it, besides the years of WoW gameplay trailers and news on magazines and the internet about the development, Including Beta players who spread the word about the game.


    Also, EA killed Ultima very before WoW when UO2 Project Died, EQ2 was a bad comedy trying to ride on wow formula before it died and EQ was ruined by Furor and Tigole's gang, SWG DIED on the moment that Brack became the lead designer and started to Fuck with the game with the JEDI and Copy WoW, there's even an video talking about it.


    So no, WoW came out on the top During an Period where MMO's reached stagnation due to general Dev incompetence, and the Hype built over it which helped thrice, along with the Gaming system being easier compared to MMo's of that time.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    I just find it interesting to see people reflect on why it can be more fun to actually be in danger from time to time,
    than to be stuck in godmode like you are on live/retail. Things I've been saying for a long, long time.

    People don't complain about things getting easier and yet at a certain point it just stops being immersive. You stop caring about gear upgrades, potions, other classes buffs etc, because they don't matter if you can pull entire mob camps and AoE it down with ease.

    Classic leveling is immersive while retail's is coma-inducing. Which is a funny contrast considering just how slow and repetitive classic leveling is.
    And yet somehow people are more immersed in Classic than ARPG WoW: Cosmetics of Mountcraft.


    Naysayers should try a decent private realm if they haven't got beta and give it a dozen hours or so, maybe they'll see why.
    BFA is a better "game" (judged in a vacuum) but a shitty MMORPG in comparison.
    Oh, please don't speak for me. I like hard and dangerous games, I've played my Dark Souls (Vanilla ain't got shit on a SL1 run where one misstep means you're dead against random enemies), my XCOM on Impossible where RNG alone that kill 20 hours of progress, my Dragon Age: Origins with difficulty mods so ridiculous I had to extract every ounce of cheese out of the (insanely cheesy) ruleset to survive. I can handle that shit.

    Vanilla leveling is nowhere near that level of danger and challenge. It just takes a long-ass time because you don't have a choice and don't have options. At best you can maybe be a Warrior who survives pulling 4 mobs because you pop Retaliation or something (is that even in 1.12? I can't remember) Then you have to eat. Then pull 1-2 mobs. Then eat again, ad nauseum. WoW's questing is terrible and has literally always been terrible when stacked against things like single-player RPGs, that's why I personally want it over and done so I can get to the parts this game does well and are actually unique, IE group PvE.

    You can like Classic leveling if you so desire, and I'm happy you get to experience it. But fuck me this sort of condescending bullshit is probably my least favorite aspect of the Classic fanbase.

  12. #192
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodykiller86 View Post


    not even remotely true but whatever you seem like one of those classic crazy people who hate on live. Probably think classic is harder too when its just a grind, nothing hard about it.
    Nah I actually hate how many classes and talents are broken as well as rotations in general in Classic, but the payoff in Classic psychologically is a 1000x better dopamine rush. That's all that matters to any 'gamer', how the game makes you feel, gameplay systems are only a means to an end and Live doesn't do it for me. Again -- because it plays itself unless you are the top 1%.

    That was basically Legion for me. Grinding M+15, only to do it again because the gear artificially inflated and the previous stuff was given out for free.
    Last edited by Daffan; 2019-05-20 at 11:21 PM.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Oh, please don't speak for me. I like hard and dangerous games, I've played my Dark Souls (Vanilla ain't got shit on a SL1 run where one misstep means you're dead against random enemies), my XCOM on Impossible where RNG alone that kill 20 hours of progress, my Dragon Age: Origins with difficulty mods so ridiculous I had to extract every ounce of cheese out of the (insanely cheesy) ruleset to survive. I can handle that shit.

    Vanilla leveling is nowhere near that level of danger and challenge. It just takes a long-ass time because you don't have a choice and don't have options. At best you can maybe be a Warrior who survives pulling 4 mobs because you pop Retaliation or something (is that even in 1.12? I can't remember) Then you have to eat. Then pull 1-2 mobs. Then eat again, ad nauseum. WoW's questing is terrible and has literally always been terrible when stacked against things like single-player RPGs, that's why I personally want it over and done so I can get to the parts this game does well and are actually unique, IE group PvE.

    You can like Classic leveling if you so desire, and I'm happy you get to experience it. But fuck me this sort of condescending bullshit is probably my least favorite aspect of the Classic fanbase.
    Buddy, classic leveling was harder. Period. Call it whatever you want, it wont change anything.

    Every single game is easy by your logic. "Difficulty" in general is created by "opportunities to do mistakes". Is dark soul hard? Not if you can avoid every attack, it's trivial. Is skyrim hard? Not of course, as long as you know how to play it well and make good character. Nothing is "hard" by sense, you are solving some math problem or science problem or doing some puzzle. It's hard because you have to think about more things. Stop trying to downplay that.

  14. #194
    It's 2019 and people still don't understand that everyone has their own personal opinion. What in the fuck. Dude in the video doesn't even look like he was old enough to agree to the EULA in vanilla lol. But that's neither here nor there.

    He's 29. well, nevermind then.
    Last edited by iamthedevil; 2019-05-20 at 11:34 PM.

  15. #195
    Herald of the Titans TigTone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamthedevil View Post
    It's 2019 and people still don't understand that everyone has their own personal opinion. What in the fuck.
    This can’t be said enough on the topic of classic vs modern(retail) WoW. Like seriously is it so hard to say “I don’t classic hope it works out and brings enjoyment to those who like it or I don’t like retail hope it keeps providing enjoyment to those who like it”

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewshine View Post
    This can’t be said enough on the topic of classic vs modern(retail) WoW. Like seriously is it so hard to say “I don’t classic hope it works out and brings enjoyment to those who like it or I don’t like retail hope it keeps providing enjoyment to those who like it”
    "I'm going to prove your opinion wrong with facts and logic."

    "Uhhh bro it's a game."

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    If you would could you humor me for a second? There are a fair number of people out there like you that seemingly want classic to fail, could you go over the reasons as to why? Im not judging or anything like that, im genuinely curious. The best i can come up with in my head is a couple reasons:

    1. You are a retail player and are worried that classic will either lower the current population of WoW meaning you have less people to play with, or maybe you think its possible that classic development is taking resources away from retail?
    2. You dont have time to play a game like classic anymore, but deep down know you would have fun if you did.

    If its something else feel free to enlighten us, i just would like to understand a bit more of peoples viewpoints on this.
    He is just trying to say that people are jumping the gun way too fast. You cannot tell whether classic will fail or not from 3 days only, and honestly, some people are acting as if Classic is the holy grail or something. Let's see how the game feels 6 months after it comes out, August 27th.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Soluna View Post
    He is just trying to say that people are jumping the gun way too fast. You cannot tell whether classic will fail or not from 3 days only, and honestly, some people are acting as if Classic is the holy grail or something. Let's see how the game feels 6 months after it comes out, August 27th.
    Why do people keep saying this? 6 months after BFA they probably lost 50% of their subs (my guess is more, actually). Of COURSE classic is going to have a similar drop off, dont act like this would be an oddity.

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    So just to be clear - this dude is a complete random that nobody has ever heard of, and you think him (probably you, lets be honest) chasing subs and publicity means every single other person out there who doubted the need for classic, and tried to explain to ppl that no, it will not have 100m subs (a legitimate claim by a member of this forum), no it will not break records, and no, it will not 'take over' from retail in the long run - you are saying all of them suddenly changed their minds and admitted they are wrong? just because you made some "i was wrong" youtube video?

    lets be honest - the game is not out yet, its only beta. The forum is full of ppl complaining about shit that is actually correct - PS and nostalgia has tainted ppls expectations so much, Blizzard is having to do large blue posts explaining that things are actually 'working as intended' (for the most part ofc). For the big fans of classic who are putting all their weight behind it, i do have some concerns when i see coments like "bro its only beta, they will fix it" when talking about A)things that dont need 'fixing', as they are working as intended, or B)massive alterations that would never be made during a beta cycle, especially with a fixed release date.

    Any beta that happens after the announcement of a release date is a demo, not a beta - no meaningful changes will be made - the odd bug here and there, but thats it.

    tl;dr - its one random on youtube who no one has ever heard of, and there are dozens of videos saying the opposite - ppl who wanted classic so badly, but after playing the beta dont like it.
    I'm not taking away from the point you're trying to make because I have always thought and still think that Classic will have a big launch and then taper off massively within the following months, but the guy has 45000 subscribers, he's not a "random that nobody has ever heard of" just because you (or I for that matter) don't know who he is.

    Of course yes he makes YouTube videos with the hope it will increase his viewership, but if you're looking at that cynically you might as well do that for the entire social media spectrum and YouTube as a whole, all the guys you might consider "people have heard of" are in that position because of that very reason. You should judge the video on the quality of the character and the content, not try to disregard his thoughts because you haven't heard of him.

    When I played a Vanilla private server briefly (just leveled to 31) towards the end of last year (after also playing a TBC one in 2017), I had the exact same thoughts as this guy on the pacing and feel of the game, exactly the same. I raided on the TBC realm (through to Hyjal cleared from a fresh progressive server) and it was awesome, it completely hooked me in, I made the first new WoW friends in a long time. Nostalgia played a part in getting me to try it out, but the game was good enough to keep me playing until I had to quit for RL commitments.
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2019-05-20 at 11:59 PM.
    Probably running on a Pentium 4

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by ManiaCCC View Post
    Buddy, classic leveling was harder. Period. Call it whatever you want, it wont change anything.

    Every single game is easy by your logic. "Difficulty" in general is created by "opportunities to do mistakes". Is dark soul hard? Not if you can avoid every attack, it's trivial. Is skyrim hard? Not of course, as long as you know how to play it well and make good character. Nothing is "hard" by sense, you are solving some math problem or science problem or doing some puzzle. It's hard because you have to think about more things. Stop trying to downplay that.
    Yes it's harder? Thank you but that wasn't my point. Classic leveling is indeed harder, but it's really not so hard as to be a significant step-up that people who play current WoW somehow cannot grasp, as the poster I quoted believes. Tons of people play games harder than Classic, and might just not want to be bothered with its brand of difficulty.
    Last edited by Jastall; 2019-05-21 at 02:02 AM.

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