What do you think of the Dresden Bombing during WWII?

[Ghostpanther]

I think it's never okay to attack non-combatants in a conflict. So long as the non-combatant isn't indirectly aiding combatants. IE a farmer delivering food to a military base would still be fair game in a war.

I agree with you,fundamentally speaking. But in a all out war to defeat a tyrant, may at times, require such. Not that they are the target, but the enemy is among them and uses them as shields and also civilian workers involved directly with the war effort, such as factories. Today, thankfully, we have the technology level to pinpoint targets precise enough to avoid some of the innocent casualties and should be used wherever possible. Blanket bombing a target back in WW2 was very common.

[Shelly]

Smart bombs kills civilians pretty good. Destroying hospitals and kill innocent ppl. Also shells with uranium "helps" ppl in Iraq hardly. And now US develops "tactical nuclear weapon". Do you really think something changed since ww2? Some countries still dont care about other countries. And eradicate them just because. Because they are stronger. And they need recources. Good reason to kill millions of ppl.

That's the point I was making.

Reading comprehension isn't exactly a thing for you is it?

Also the US has had tactical nuclear weapons for over 50 years now. It's pretty much what they call a nuclear weapon that can be used in a targeted way rather than an indiscriminate one.

[Noradin]

Yes the bombing of Dresden was a terrible thing, just like the bombing of Britain was, just like all war is, but Dresden was a valid military target, it's bombing was justified, it's just a shame that 74 years on people like you are still spreading debunked Nazi Government propaganda.

Then why weren't these parts of the city targeted?

[Monster Hunter]

Air Chief Marshall Sir Arthur Harris' statue is defaced. He's the one who planned the Dresden Bombing during WWII.

What do you think of the Dresden Bombing during WWII?

It was some sweet sweet long over due revenge, I'm not even gonna try to justify it or pretend it was anything else, nor will I condemn it, Britain suffered years of the blitz, you can argue about being the bigger man and all the bullshit but some times after things like the blitz, vengeance is exactly what you need.

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The bombing of Dresden was an atrocity and one of the worst singular acts of WW2 (note I consider things like the blitz and the holocaust to be campaigns of many acts, much worse in total but not directly comparable.) I don't think any of the major powers involved in that conflict can look back at their actions and be proud of their moral standing.

Contrary to what the media and the propaganda might say, war and by that any and all wars have nothing to be prideful about, they are never good guy v bad guy, never clear cut and never mercy full, war is about hate, pure blood thirsty hatred, you may at the start have an aggressor, an oppressed group fighting for freedom or allie you came to help, but once the war starts and the bullets start flying and the bombs start dropping, it's only hatred and fear of those who hate you that fuels every pull of the trigger.

[INVASMANIXOXOXO]

As many people in this thread have put forth sources on why Dresden was definitely a legitimate military target, seems like the a-boms/firebombing of Tokyo were the really abhorrent US attacks in WW2. The flipside of that is DO YOU disagree that these attacks probably saved maybe half a million american lives and millions of Japanese lives? It may have not been right, but the real world is not an undergraduate philosophy class.

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Then why weren't these parts of the city targeted?

Technology mostly I would say. I've read that nighttime raids were pretty inaccurate, and daytime raids were mostly a very good way to send your own aircrews to their death.

[Kellhound]

Air Chief Marshall Sir Arthur Harris' statue is defaced. He's the one who planned the Dresden Bombing during WWII.

What do you think of the Dresden Bombing during WWII?

My thoughts are simple: total war was accepted during WWII, including the carpet bombing of entire cities. It is not our place to judge the actions of others from 70+ years ago who operated with a different moral standard. It is, however not something that would be accepted today (except for MAD....).

[Stelio Kontos]

Dresden was a legitimate target. Doesn't mean it wasn't excessively bombed, but it has been ballooned out over time (usually by Nazi apologists) to try and compete with German atrocities (which it doesn't, at all).

It doesn't even compete with the most excessive, brutal bombings the Allies did, let alone the level of atrocities the Germans and their allies wrought.

[Adam Jensen]

I think it's never okay to attack non-combatants in a conflict. So long as the non-combatant isn't indirectly aiding combatants. IE a farmer delivering food to a military base would still be fair game in a war. Hiding soldiers would also cause someone to forfeit their civilian status.

But Dresden was a military target. Major railway, I think, and a garrison of some 20,000 troops. Germany still had some fight and was desperately trying to keep the Soviets out of Berlin, which would fall two months after the major bombing, and Hitler would die by suicide on his birthday during the battle. Taking out Dresden meant softening up those troops and wrecking railways that could be used to move them.

[PC2]

But Dresden was a military target. Major railway, I think, and a garrison of some 20,000 troops. Germany still had some fight and was desperately trying to keep the Soviets out of Berlin, which would fall two months after the major bombing, and Hitler would die by suicide on his birthday during the battle. Taking out Dresden meant softening up those troops and wrecking railways that could be used to move them.

I believe you, I was just saying what the overall policy should be.

[Adam Jensen]

That's the point I was making.

Reading comprehension isn't exactly a thing for you is it?

Also the US has had tactical nuclear weapons for over 50 years now. It's pretty much what they call a nuclear weapon that can be used in a targeted way rather than an indiscriminate one.

Yep, some maniac thought "what if we put a nuclear bomb on a bazooka?"

And thus the Davy Crockett was born, which Fallout spoofed as the Fatman weapon.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I think in war or more importantly when war has declared upon you all is fair. Murder genocide total eradication of the enemy. No mercy totally.

Which is why humans should never war and do anything and everything to prevent it. However once war started its time to go to work.

[Krawu]

I think the Japanese got it worse than us.

Honestly, from a modern point of view carpet bombing an entire city in order to "soften up" the civilian population is nothing short of terrorism. But every major faction involved in WW2 did it, and there's no reason to be all outraged about it 75 years after the fact. I'm not still mad about the atrocities committed in the 30 Years War either.

Just remember it, teach the next generation about the horrors of the war so they can remember and don't repeat the mistakes of the past. It's history, and that's all there is to it.

One more thing: Even in a major German city such as Hamburg where I happen to live there's an evacuation order given every week or three because some construction workers dug up another WW2 dud somewhere and they have to call in a bomb squad. And many buildings have these plaques set in their walls commemorating that they were destroyed during the war, when they were destroyed and when they were rebuilt.

Doesn't mean I blame the British or Americans of today or that I hold any grudge against the still living veterans of WW2. All of that happened a full 2 generations before I was even born.

[Flutterguy]

All cities were military targets in WWII. There was certainly a personal element to Dresden's bombing, but it didn't diminish the military value. A total war is going to be filled with horrific acts.

[Iambackagain666]

This was Total War.

Everyone was targeted.

My Grandparents who lived in Birmingham and other UK cities was bombed and my grandmother used to tell me about the doodlebugs which was the V-1s where they would make a huge noise then the engines would cut out then... well you seriously wouldnt want to be underneath it when that happened.

Dresden was a unfortunate act during a time where nearly 60 million people died!

Yes in hindsight we can point our judgemental finger but be thankful that we have that right cause if the Nazis had won well you know what would happen.

[Mythrawnudo]

War is stupid, started of stupid reasons and ended in pain and loss on both sides.

That said, bombing of Britain was to hurt moral, it failed and fueled the allied effort.
Bombing of Dresden was succesfull in that as Germany capitulated soon after.

As a dutchy, if I would look at it through old people eyes, I would say Germany got payback for bombing rotterdam.

But now, at this moment in time, government leaders who use bombing of cities as justification should be prosecuted for war crimes. But that is my opinion.

[Surfd]

The dropping of the atomic bombs have been argued out for decades. Every scenario where the bombs are not dropped, far more Japanese civilians die than were killed in the bombings, either killed fighting against the invasion, or starved as part of a blockade. Again, it was 1945, not 2019. Information was gathered, and acted upon with the tools at hand. Was some of it misinterpreted? Sure. Was there a political spin on some of it? Of course. War is a political act.

I highly, highly doubt that, considering that there is very good info that points to the fact that the Japanese were literally in the process of surrendering BEFORE the bombs were dropped, and that pretty much the only reason that the bombs were dropped was purely to completely break them and force an unconditional surrender.

[grexly75]

This was Total War.

Everyone was targeted.

My Grandparents who lived in Birmingham and other UK cities was bombed and my grandmother used to tell me about the doodlebugs which was the V-1s where they would make a huge noise then the engines would cut out then... well you seriously wouldnt want to be underneath it when that happened.

Dresden was a unfortunate act during a time where nearly 60 million people died!

Yes in hindsight we can point our judgemental finger but be thankful that we have that right cause if the Nazis had won well you know what would happen.

And to that point there was a series of documentaries about what plans Hitler had if he won the war, and they were not pretty as they involved completely dominating Britain and America and other conquered countries..

[Cruor]

I wish I knew what the Dresden Bombing was, but since you decided to make a thread with no details I can't comment.

I wish you had gone to school... or knew how to know google. Im sure you know utterly irrelevant facts though, like what rapper got shot when and where. If you had been listening in history class rather than playing the minority/woman washed garbage WW2 games being put out know you would know Dresden is a city in Germany that was targeted for mass fire bombing by air raid. Pretty much mainly factory's, power plants and transportation had been the targets before, but the idea here was to mass kill civilians for two reasons: one bring the war home to people to make them beg for surrender and two kill tax payers, workers, means of production in man power at its source.

I'm fine with it. I'm fine with nuking Japan. Dont start shit if you dont want to have bad things happen in response.

[Iambackagain666]

War is stupid, started of stupid reasons and ended in pain and loss on both sides.

That said, bombing of Britain was to hurt moral, it failed and fueled the allied effort.
Bombing of Dresden was succesfull in that as Germany capitulated soon after.

As a dutchy, if I would look at it through old people eyes, I would say Germany got payback for bombing rotterdam.

But now, at this moment in time, government leaders who use bombing of cities as justification should be prosecuted for war crimes. But that is my opinion.

The Germans pretty much starved the Dutch almost to genocide towards the end of the war where they was literally eating flowers to survive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_...944%E2%80%9345

[Flurryfang]

Talk about military targets or not, Arthur "Bomber" Harris said himself, that the reason for the bombing, and the bombing in general of the german countryside, was to break the moral of german people, not to cripple german military production.

It was the same reason the germans did the blitz. The thing is that it was proved time and time again, that bombing of the civilian population did not really have an effect, which is why the Allied Forces actually stopped doing bombing civilian targets once during the war, only for Arthur Harris to push for it again later in the war.

War is indeed hell, but very few people saw the idea of bombing the civilians as a nessary evil of war. I think it is very justified to critique the Dresden Bombing, just like it is valid to critique the Raping of Nanjing.