[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[ohwell]

George Lucas and Peter Jackson watched rushes of their films hundreds of times over and mistakes still made it through. This isn't unique to GoT at all. I'm quite frankly amazed that the most renowned errors in the show thus far have been a couple of forgotten drinks.

There's a difference between a mistake like random errors like people claimed they thought they saw Jaime's real hand in one scene(it was just a picture though not the actual scene) and having outside materials strewn about that were blatantly obvious. You're talking days after they air. Some of the directors you mentioned had their errors found way later.

[Yunaqt]

George Lucas and Peter Jackson watched rushes of their films hundreds of times over and mistakes still made it through. This isn't unique to GoT at all. I'm quite frankly amazed that the most renowned errors in the show thus far have been a couple of forgotten drinks.

Holy shit thanks for this site, it was a great laugh!

[Ragedaug]

The last season was surely rushed, but at the end of the day, the story would not have changed. So, i am glad i didn't have to wait 2 more years of fluff to get there.

I do think bread crumbs were set if there is ever to be an idea of a sequel though, wich i wasn't expecting.

The king that was promised, certainly wasn't delivered.

IMO, the "taking your time" part would have been more about asking the writers to figure out better ways to get the characters into their final positions. Also, could be the writers made bad decisions due to the fact that they knew they had to squeeze it all into 6 episodes, where they might have made different decisions that made more sense if they has 10 or 20 episodes to tell it.

Like maybe spelling out that Bran was the final boss, just no one knew it. He's the 3 Eyed Raven now, a better champion for the Children of the Forrest, after they found out their first Champion (the Night King) turned on them. The Children made a pact for peace with the First Men, but the Andals didn't respect that and still drove the Children out of Westeros to hide beyond the wall. Could be Bran was the Children's instrument, he foresaw the slaughter and told people what they needed to know to make that happen, to forward his ends of becoming King of the 6 Andal Kingdoms. Could be the Night King's sole goal was to end the Children and their Champion, which would have benefited humanity in the end, but no one could see that due to the atrocities they carried out while trying to obtain their goal. I'm not saying this idea is the best idea or even a great idea, but it gives us something more to what's going on with Bran and the Night King arch.

But instead, we have 1 episode to tell all of that so they remove all motivations from the Night King, and he just "kills people because he's the bad guy". And while Bran can see the end result of him becoming King, we have to assume he didn't know he would cause Dany to go mad, and that he's just a random super smart guy now that will only do what's best for the smallfolk.

Bran telling Jon who his parents are only leads Dany to kill hundreds of thousands of innocents, and leads Jon to kill his lover then be sentenced to live out his life at the Wall (or north of it). By not telling Jon or Sam, Dany doesn't go crazy. King's Landing is taken with next to no bloodshed (at least of the innocents) and Dany shows she can be a good and benevolent ruler like she was in Meereen. But that definitely makes me question Bran's motivations all of which are completely ignored because there wasn't enough time to explore.

[wunksta]

IMO, the "taking your time" part would have been more about asking the writers to figure out better ways to get the characters into their final positions. Also, could be the writers made bad decisions due to the fact that they knew they had to squeeze it all into 6 episodes, where they might have made different decisions that made more sense if they has 10 or 20 episodes to tell it.

Like maybe spelling out that Bran was the final boss, just no one knew it. He's the 3 Eyed Raven now, a better champion for the Children of the Forrest, after they found out their first Champion (the Night King) turned on them. The Children made a pact for peace with the First Men, but the Andals didn't respect that and still drove the Children out of Westeros to hide beyond the wall. Could be Bran was the Children's instrument, he foresaw the slaughter and told people what they needed to know to make that happen, to forward his ends of becoming King of the 6 Andal Kingdoms. Could be the Night King's sole goal was to end the Children and their Champion, which would have benefited humanity in the end, but no one could see that due to the atrocities they carried out while trying to obtain their goal. I'm not saying this idea is the best idea or even a great idea, but it gives us something more to what's going on with Bran and the Night King arch.

But instead, we have 1 episode to tell all of that so they remove all motivations from the Night King, and he just "kills people because he's the bad guy". And while Bran can see the end result of him becoming King, we have to assume he didn't know he would cause Dany to go mad, and that he's just a random super smart guy now that will only do what's best for the smallfolk.

Bran telling Jon who his parents are only leads Dany to kill hundreds of thousands of innocents, and leads Jon to kill his lover then be sentenced to live out his life at the Wall (or north of it). By not telling Jon or Sam, Dany doesn't go crazy. King's Landing it taking with next to no bloodshed (at least of the innocents) and Dany shows she can be a good and benevolent ruler like she was in Meereen. But that definitely makes me question Bran's motivations all of which are completely ignored because there wasn't enough time to explore.

So Melisandre had a vision of Bran:

"A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment . . . but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. 'Never fear the darkness, Bran.' The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."

There's multiple connections that tie the Last Greenseer, Brynden Rivers, the Old Gods, and Bran Stark to the theme of darkness that draws The Great Other (The Many Faced God) into opposition with R'hllor. It's also interesting that Arya was trained by the faceless men who worship The Many Faced god.

Could be that the NK was just a ploy or a pawn, or a failed champion like you mentioned, and that Bran/Brynden was maneuvering to gain trust by outsmarting the NK and take the throne.

Or it could just be a bunch of red herrings that don't really mean anything. At this point the story is over so we have to wait for more story to be fleshed out in the books or maybe it will always be ambiguous.

[Ragedaug]

So Melisandre had a vision of Bran:

"A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment . . . but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. 'Never fear the darkness, Bran.' The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."

There's multiple connections that tie the Last Greenseer, Brynden Rivers, the Old Gods, and Bran Stark to the theme of darkness that draws The Great Other (The Many Faced God) into opposition with R'hllor. It's also interesting that Arya was trained by the faceless men who worship The Many Faced god.

Could be that the NK was just a ploy or a pawn, or a failed champion like you mentioned, and that Bran/Brynden was maneuvering to gain trust by outsmarting the NK and take the throne.

Or it could just be a bunch of red herrings that don't really mean anything. At this point the story is over so we have to wait for more story to be fleshed out in the books or maybe it will always be ambiguous.

While I know I could be completely wrong, I'm mostly just looking forward to GRRMs story at this point and how he wraps it, because I believe we'll get more character motivation than "he does that because he's the good guy, and that other guy is the bad guy". GRRM is always talking about shades of gray in character motivation, so I'm hoping to see a much deeper look to why everything is happening, and maybe make us have to rethink why we believe who the good guys and bad guys are. Is Jamie the bad guy for killing the king he took an oath to protect, or is he the good guy for saving the innocents in the city, that he also took an oath to protect, from that king?.

...also I would really like to see a point to some of the prophecies.

[Oncereborn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4J16GzUJ28

should help explain it, Azor Ahai is like the great flood myth in the real world its been so adapted mutated and strung out theres no telling which religion or culture has it right all we got was the red priests version. but theres evidence it all ready happened thousands of years ago far in the east.

Because I think they are going to do Azor Ahai/The last hero as one character for the prequel series about the long night. I think they planned on touching on it on the main series but after the prequel story was fleshed out a bit they got told to stop talking about all that stuff.

[minteK917]

IMO, the "taking your time" part would have been more about asking the writers to figure out better ways to get the characters into their final positions. Also, could be the writers made bad decisions due to the fact that they knew they had to squeeze it all into 6 episodes, where they might have made different decisions that made more sense if they has 10 or 20 episodes to tell it.

Except we know this is a load of bullshit, they were given the ok to go all the way up to season 10, with 10 episodes per seasons. They are hack trash writter, ran out of stuff to copy past and edit. Had the bathroom note goerge took on a napkin and where like: fuck lets end it asap and move on to star wars we got no idea. Hell they were even saying to HBO they would end it even faster, those super long episodes where compromise they agreed to, because HBO though there was no way to finish it as fast as they said they could. Behold hack writters gona be hack. Why would HBO even believe the screen writters for wolverine origin can fucking write their own shit i will never get.

[Wilfire]

I’m mean, she wasn’t exactly innocent. Certain things contributed to her mental instability but she still chose to kill all those innocent people, and planned to continue that destructive path across the world. That’s why Jon had to kill her. Had she realized what she did was wrong and made no plans to further conquer the world that way, Jon likely wouldn’t have killed her.

She torched people that first cheered for Ned's head to be taken and then cheered for the nobles to be torn apart and mutilated by the Sparrows and then let Cersei use them as a meat shield. There are no "innocent" people in Westeros. The smallfalk were just as morally reprehensible as Dany.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Yes, but I have an interesting question for you...how do you know the population is small really where did you get that info from?

During ep. 7. One of the Northerners (Jon?) Is told that there are around a million people in Kings Landing, and he exclaim :
"Its more people than in the entire North!"

It makes sense, like how Canada is larger than the US but oviously much less populated given its climate.

[ohwell]

Bran can't see the future. Whenever he says something like someone was right where they were supposed to be, it just a matter of accepting the past just like Sansa accepting that all the bad that she endured was what brought her to where she needed to be.

He didn't know Dany would torch the entire city, but he still expected to win. He figured that he was the only logical one to become king no matter how Dany and Cersei were defeated.

- - - Updated - - -



They didn't have infinite rewind and pause available to viewers during the first showing.

- - - Updated - - -



Except that isn't what would have happened at all. Dany was never benevolent. She just never went up against any arguably "innocent" people who didn't bend the knee until reaching Westeros.

Nobody was doing that here......although the editors should have been.

[Ihavewaffles]

I bet Sansa is barren after what Ramsey Bolton did to her. Unless Arya has a bastard child that is the legitimized as a Stark end of the Stark line. And really even if Sansa does have a child it will have to be with a commoner, not a landed lord. Or the same thing happens.

Basically this is the end of the Stark line and in the end, the Lannisters won.

Doubt that Ramsay did something to make her barren, then he couldn't have a son.

[Aurrora]

Bran can't see the future.

He can project himself into the past. Therefore a future version of himself can communicate with this present self, giving him an indirect look into the future.

[shuubu]

The only problem I have with the last season was that it really needed 1-2 more episodes to pace up the story. The last 4 episodes just went with a too fast pace. The developments in the story really could have used more time.

[Aenigma84]

Is the kingdom indebted or is it the person? If it's the kingdom, then yes, yes it would. Serious question, if the USA has a civil war (we're ~60% the way there), and the side that's not currently in power wins and gains control over all the USA, do you think the massive debt the US has would just go away in a blink? Again, my question continues with why after the Nazis were destroyed, why did Germany have to pay anything to the allies, I thought the axies/nazis were dead and lost the war. According to you, that should have never happened.

your thinking in terms of modern era
back in medieval times this was not the case william invaded england, conquered england so it was stil england
yet he would not have been forced to pay english debt before that point

[Jayma]

Bran can't see the future. Whenever he says something like someone was right where they were supposed to be, it just a matter of accepting the past just like Sansa accepting that all the bad that she endured was what brought her to where she needed to be.

He didn't know Dany would torch the entire city, but he still expected to win. He figured that he was the only logical one to become king no matter how Dany and Cersei were defeated.

We don't know what he's truly capable of, but we did see him have 2 future visions that absolutely came to fruition.
So he clearly has some ability to see at least parts of the future.

[MatadorMedia]

Where did Jon even get a Sai? I've never seen a dagger like this on the entire show.

[Ragedaug]

Bran can't see the future. Whenever he says something like someone was right where they were supposed to be, it just a matter of accepting the past just like Sansa accepting that all the bad that she endured was what brought her to where she needed to be.

He didn't know Dany would torch the entire city, but he still expected to win. He figured that he was the only logical one to become king no matter how Dany and Cersei were defeated.

Bran tells Tyrion in front of the electoral college that he saw the future, which is why he bothered to make the trip south.

Except that isn't what would have happened at all. Dany was never benevolent. She just never went up against any arguably "innocent" people who didn't bend the knee until reaching Westeros.

You either haven't actually watched the series, are super defensive of the show and can't admit to yourself what you saw, or are just trolling us. Neither of your statements are subjective matters and/or opinions. They are factually wrong based on the material we are talking about. Dany shows a mother's love towards all the people she's liberated. Every decision she makes when she's in slaver's bay is how to make their lives better. She sacrifices her own happiness and life goals to help those people. She marries Hizdahr zo Loraq in an attempt to bring peace to her people. Spends years in Slaver's Bay instead of heading to Westeros, delaying her ability to reclaim her throne, because she knows her people will fall prey right back into the hands of the Wise Masters if/when she leaves.

[Jessicka]

As rushed and unsatisfying as the previous two episodes were, I think they nailed this finale.

[Adamas102]

As rushed and unsatisfying as the previous two episodes were, I think they nailed this finale.

I'm glad they showed us about 10 full minutes of characters slowly walking in silence instead of less important scenes such as Jon surrendering and somehow convincing Grey Worm not to kill him on the spot. It was also great how they turned what in earlier seasons would have been a serious scene, the new council picking up the pieces of the realm, into a sketch comedy scene (omg not the chairs! troll author not including Tyrion in his meta book. oh Bronn you're such a hoot. hi Bran, bye Bran). They finally gave that loser Jon the sendoff he deserves. He did the right thing, was pivotal in saving literally everyone from ice zombies, his family rules the entire continent, the only people who hate him took a boat to another country, and STILL he gets exiled to the cold wasteland! Fuck him.

Yeah, totally nailed it.

[Lumineus]

took a boat to another country and then died of a mysterious illness*