Why is guilt such a large part of western culture?

[PC2]

"Penal labor in the United States, including a form of slavery or involuntary servitude, is explicitly allowed by the 13th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution."

How does that mean that the private prison system is analogous to slavery? They are not the same thing at all, if the inmates were forced to pick cotton then yeah that would be slavery.

[Adam Jensen]

Except that the vocal minority is doing both.

The great thing about vocal minorities is they can be ignored.

[Elegiac]

How does that mean that the private prison system is analogous to slavery?

Ehem:

"Penal labor in the United States, including a form of slavery or involuntary servitude

Reading comprehension.

They are not at all the same thing at all, if the inmates were forced to pick cotton then yeah that would be slavery.

Are you seriously saying the only form of slavery is agricultural? Lol.

[PC2]

Ehem:



Reading comprehension.



Are you seriously saying the only form of slavery is agricultural? Lol.

Slavery means the slave has to work for the master. Commiting a crime and then sitting in a prison not doing anything is not slavery. It takes a lot of drama and exaggeration to claim they are the same thing.

[Elegiac]

Slavery means the slave has to work for the master.

That isn't what defines slavery and you know it, lol.

Commiting a crime and then sitting in a prison not doing anything is not slavery. It takes a lot of drama and exaggeration to claim they are the same thing.

Cool story; people aren't just "sitting in prison doing nothing". They're being used to make profits for the prison owners.

[SirKickBan]

How does that mean that the private prison system is analogous to slavery? They are not the same thing at all, if the inmates were forced to pick cotton then yeah that would be slavery.

Sorry, what? -Are you saying it's not slavery unless it's picking cotton? That sounds pretty ridiculous.

Never mind that they can be forced to work on farms, if that's the specific criteria you're goal-posting for?

The United States has instituted a privatized, for-profit prison system. The United States has given their prisons the legal authority to enslave prisoners, and force them to work.

The United States has the largest population of prisoners, both in absolute terms and on a per-capita basis, in the entire world.

The United States has created a system where people stand to profit by imprisoning, and potentially enslaving, as many people as it possibly can.

If you're still not convinced, have some required reading.

[Elegiac]

Sorry, what? -Are you saying it's not slavery unless it's picking cotton? That sounds pretty ridiculous.

Never mind that they can be forced to work on farms, if that's the specific criteria you're goal-posting for?

The United States has instituted a privatized, for-profit prison system. The United States has given their prisons the legal authority to enslave prisoners, and force them to work.

The United States has the largest population of prisoners, both in absolute terms and on a per-capita basis, in the entire world.

The United States has created a system where people stand to profit by imprisoning, and potentially enslaving, as many people as it possibly can.

If you're still not convinced, have some required reading.

It's almost like Reconstruction was a botched job and many of the antebellum mechanisms of oppression were either left in place or retooled to be slightly less overtly racist. Well said.

[PC2]

That isn't what defines slavery and you know it, lol.

Cool story; people aren't just "sitting in prison doing nothing". They're being used to make profits for the prison owners.

Working for a master is what defines slavery. Criminals are not somehow equivalent to slaves. You've obviously built up a lot of drama in your head to make things seem like modern institutions are somehow comparable to past institutions like slavery.

[Elegiac]

Working for a master is what defines slavery.

Citation needed.

Criminals are not somehow equivalent to slaves.

Why does the Thirteenth Amendment feel the need to clarify that slavery is okay as a judicial punishment, then? I'll wait.

[Halicia]

Slavery means the slave has to work for the master. Commiting a crime and then sitting in a prison not doing anything is not slavery. It takes a lot of drama and exaggeration to claim they are the same thing.

The Mamluks say hi.

- - - Updated - - -

Working for a master is what defines slavery.

That's not the definition, and so long as you argue under that false assumption, you're simply trolling.

[PC2]

Citation needed.



Why does the Thirteenth Amendment feel the need to clarify that slavery is okay as a judicial punishment, then? I'll wait.

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/slavery

I think you don't understand how laws work. Old laws become superceded by new laws. Slavery being allowed in the past doesn't not mean it still exists in 2019.

[SirKickBan]

Working for a master is what defines slavery. Criminals are not somehow equivalent to slaves. You've obviously built up a lot of drama in your head to make things seem like modern institutions are somehow comparable to past institutions like slavery.

Now.. This isn't quite related to slavery, but it is tied in with the original theme of this thread, so I'll go ahead and just... Share a little more depressing fun about the state of US prisons.

If you agree with the growing opinion that solitary confinement is torture, something which the UN does, then the United States is one of the largest torturers in the world.

[PC2]

Now.. This isn't quite related to slavery, but it is tied in with the original theme of this thread, so I'll go ahead and just... Share a little more depressing fun about the state of US prisons.

If you agree with the growing opinion that solitary confinement is torture, something which the UN does, then the United States is one of the largest torturers in the world.

Okay but I was countering the dramatization that private prison is the same thing as slavery.

[SirKickBan]

Okay but I was countering the dramatization that private prison is the same thing as slavery.

You were also saying, specifically, that:

You've obviously built up a lot of drama in your head to make things seem like modern institutions are somehow comparable to past institutions like slavery.

Which, I would say, leaves you fairly open to the critique that the modern prison system is comparable to barbaric institutions of the past, which have allowed such things as slavery and torture.

You're implying that the prison system is an appropriately modern, developed, and humane system, compared to those of the past. And I'm countering that, with evidence that it's still a barbaric, exploitative, and medieval institution.

[PC2]

You were also saying, specifically, that:



Which, I would say, leaves you fairly open to the critique that the modern prison system is comparable to barbaric institutions of the past, which have allowed such things as slavery and torture.

You're implying that the prison system is an appropriately modern, developed, and humane system, compared to those of the past. And I'm countering that, with evidence that it's still a barbaric, exploitative, and medieval institution.

No that's nonsense. Slaves in the past didn't have to commit crimes to be put in slavery. Slaves had to work or be killed, it's nothing like sitting in a prison in 2019.

[Elegiac]

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/slavery

From your link: Slavery is the brutal practice of forcing someone to work hard without paying them a fair wage, sometimes without paying them at all.

Sounds like you were talking out of your ass about that whole "master" nonsense.

I think you don't understand how laws work. Old laws become superceded by new laws. Slavery being allowed in the past doesn't not mean it still exists in 2019.

Answer the question.

[Minikin]

If you live in a western nation and you travel or work abroad, the privilege you have is honestly astounding. I can genuinely tell you for a fact that I've avoided countless fines and even jail for simply being white, male and having a decent passport.

And a lot of these countries I get away with doing stupid shit in, are countries that Britain fucked over to some degree (the list of ones we havent are small).

Its important to recognise the privilege you have and how easy it makes your life compared to others, even the worst off in our societies have a better chance at life than the best in other countries.

That being said I dont feel intense guilt or anything, and I think its unrealistic to expect other normal citizens to as well. However its good to remember history, show humility and provide reparations where necessary, a developed and safe world is to the benefit of all.

100%. Issue is that most of the "delicate" posters base their opinions from what they see on tv rather than actually travelling and seeing the world with their own eyes
.

[PC2]

From your link: Slavery is the brutal practice of forcing someone to work hard without paying them a fair wage, sometimes without paying them at all.

Sounds like you were talking out of your ass about that whole "master" nonsense.



Answer the question.

What are you talking about? Slaves did have masters that owned them, criminals in prisons don't have any masters that own them. You can't conflated the two.

[Cyanu]

This is something that always struck me as a bit off but why does guilt seem to play such a large role in the history of the west? From Canada with its Indian schools to Americans with slavery, and Europe with the holocaust.

Why is it that these issues seem to press so heavily on the mind of so many especially when the grand majority of people alive had nothing to do with them? Looking around the world this sort of culture seems to really only exist in the west what makes it stick around so long?

ehm, Christianity? isn't it obvious? we are born sinners due to the sins commited by the very first men and pretty much everything other than prayer is a sin (including doing nothing which is also a sin)

Christianity has played a huge part in the moral values of the western world and it's all about sins,guilt and forgiveness cycle

[Elegiac]

What are you talking about? Slaves did have masters that owned them, criminals in prisons don't have any masters that own them. You can't conflated the two.

They do; the people who own the private prisons. State slaves are also a thing.

Again - answer the question. You keep dodging.