Why is guilt such a large part of western culture?

[Rustedsaint]

Personally I don’t feel guilty over the sins of my ancestors, my skin color or my sex.
I’ll acknowledge the actions of my ancestors were heinous(Viking heritage) but their choices were their own.

[Themius]

Personally I don’t feel guilty over the sins of my ancestors, my skin color or my sex.
I’ll acknowledge the actions of my ancestors were heinous(Viking heritage) but their choices were their own.

No one should personally feel guilty. I think the issue is when people remind people of history other people get defensive as if they must protect something. Just look at the southerners trying to justify the confederacy

[Hilhen7]

Hate to get political, but this is one of the major ideological differences between democrats and republicans. Democrats accept more guilt and feel the societal norms should be strong-armed to pay for these crimes. Republicans want everyone to move on.

Move on? Republicans wish they could regress backwards to the time were segregation existed and where minorities had no rights.

[PC2]

Move on? Republicans wish they could regress backwards to the time were segregation existed and where minorities had no rights.

Could you name one elected Republican who says minorities shouldn't have rights?

[PC2]

Actions speak louder than words do.

Okay? Just because there is one extremist in every group doesn't mean Republicans want to take away anyones rights. This is just drama Democrats tell people to whip them up into a frenzy. Same thing with the "criminals in prison are slaves" nonsense.

[Hilhen7]

Could you name one elected Republican who says minorities shouldn't have rights?

Any Republican that supports voter suppression?

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/65978...ournalist-says

[PC2]

Any Republican that supports voter suppression?

https://www.npr.org/2018/10/23/65978...ournalist-says

lol voter identification is not taking away anyone's rights.

- - - Updated - - -

It's not just one though.

Again even if it's two that doesn't mean you can apply it to the whole group. It's like if I found two Democrat voters that murdered someone and then claimed "Democrats want to murder people".

[Hilhen7]

lol voter identification is not taking away anyone's rights.

So why the need to purge voter rolls so aggressively and close polling stations in areas with minorities..?

[Elegiac]

lol voter identification is not taking away anyone's rights.

Sure, Jan.

[PC2]

So why the need to purge voter rolls so aggressively and close polling stations in areas with minorities..?

Ask the people responsible? There's no Republican conspiracy to take away minorities voting rights.

[SirKickBan]

No that's nonsense. Slaves in the past didn't have to commit crimes to be put in slavery.

May I re-phrase that for you? Because what you're saying there is effectively "criminals deserve to be enslaved". -You've also moved the goalposts, again, from arguing that there is no slavery in prison, to quibbling over details. ..And if we're going to quibble, then I'll point out that half a million people are imprisoned for something as minor as possession of marijuana.

Slaves had to work or be killed, it's nothing like sitting in a prison in 2019.

More often, actually, they were whipped. -And do you remember that thing I mentioned, about solitary confinement being considered torture by the UN?

Guess what can happen if you refuse to work?

[Amaterasu65]

A constant reminder and a push to feeling guilty serves the purpose of not repeating what the guilt is about. Not only for atrocities like genocides etc, but for everyday situations too. People tend to remind people who wronged them whenever they get the chance or try to get the superiority in an argument.

[PC2]

May I re-phrase that for you? Because what you're saying there is effectively "criminals deserve to be enslaved". -You've also moved the goalposts, again, from arguing that there is no slavery in prison, to quibbling over details. ..And if we're going to quibble, then I'll point out that half a million people are imprisoned for something as minor as possession of marijuana.



More often, actually, they were whipped. -And do you remember that thing I mentioned, about solitary confinement being considered torture by the UN?

Guess what can happen if you refuse to work?

I have no problem with you arguing that punishment is too harsh. My point was simply that equating prisoners with slaves is highly disengenuious, nobody can buy and sell prisoners and force them to work.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

Rome was a huge city... NOT IN THE 16TH CENTURY saying that Rome was so huge is one thing, but you must then consider the population of rome also plummeted several times below 50k. So for 16th century people it doesn't mean much when the city has fallen from grace.

The point was largest clean city which paris did not meet. "Around 70k" 70k is a far cry from 250.

Venice was roughly 100k, not 200k, Venice had estimates that from mid 10s to 200k, but not in the 16th century from there the population fell and never hit 200k until more modern times as in 20th century.

As for beijing it likely had more space per resident, it was a huge city several times larger, wouldn't be as densely packed. And which Europeans? Western Europeans weren't really exploring extensively the eastern hemisphere until a bit later than the period I am talking about and when they did they often ended up trading with south asia.

antwerp was roughly about 50k in the early 16th where are you getting 100-250k from?

Antwerp didn't top 100k until early 19th century

Bruges was big in the early 16th though in decline.

Brussels barely grew to 50k by the mid 16th so again where areyou getting these all 100-250k numbers from?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...ies_in_history

Plus other sources

Paris was in the 200K range in 1500, not 70K... and that is even down from 280K in 1400.

Antwerp and Bruges were in the 100-200K range between the 15th and 16th centuries due to them very prominent ports at that precise point in History, before being overtaken by Amsterdam. Flanders were then the heartland of the West.

Venice's population was 100K at least in those times, and estimates go up to 180K.

Why are you fixated on the 50-70K ceiling? That was the population of London at the time, but many Cities were much bigger, England being an agricultural peripheral country, whose main riches was the wool it would send to the Flanders where it was processed (proto industrialization).

You were speaking of Spaniards invading Tenochtitlan, and I have made clear that in the Old World they left there were many Cities past 100K, with some even past 200K, and Spaniards of all people would have been knowledgeable of those, since they were part of an empire that sprawled from the North Sea to Sicily. Flanders had big Cities, even Spain had some (just before Reconquista Granada had more than 100K, and still held 90K in 1500, with advanced water management techniques). Naples and soon Palermo were also part of that same Mediterranean empire, who would of course know of a ressurected Constantinople, especially since the new Ottoman power is what blocked trade to them and made them go West.

As for China they knew of Marco Polo's tales, and many missionaries and envoys had reached the Emperors court as early as the 14th century. In 1500 Vasco de Gama had already sailed to India, and less than 20 years later others would sail to China... right before Cortez went to Mexico.

[Darkeon]

Society that rewards portrait victimization more than actual victims.

[MechaCThun]

Because people on the west-side actually have a conscious.

[SirKickBan]

I have no problem with you arguing that punishment is too harsh. My point was simply that equating prisoners with slaves is highly disengenuious, nobody can buy and sell prisoners and force them to work.

]...]nobody can buy and sell prisoners[...]

Explain how that's relevant, and not just pointless goalpost-shifting?

I mean, what was... -What was that definition you kept touting, when you thought it would win you an argument?

Oh yeah, that's right:

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/slavery

"Slavery is the brutal practice of forcing someone to work hard without paying them a fair wage, sometimes without paying them at all."

Anyways..

and force them to work.

And that's... That's just a lie, at this point. -Unless you'd care to disagree with any of the evidence I've brought up, explaining that to you? -Any at all?

Including your very own, thirteenth amendment?

[Deadite]

So Jews should just forget and nevertheless bring up the holocaust and blacks never mention the Jim Crow era. Is it wrong of George takei to speak of what he went through in ww2

Nowt wrong with that. Just don't blame people now because their great grandpa was a twat.

[Eggroll]

If I'm not wrong, the native americans in the US are still living in special areas, they are still 2nd class citizens, not sure if they are even allowed to vote.

Same with Australia and Canada, the native population has never recovered from the slaughter of the invading Europeans.

Not to mention the western countries are wreaking havoc all over the globe, destabilizing entire regions, throwing over goverments, ravaging through ressources all over the world. We should feel bad about ourselves.

[PC2]

Yes it does, there's far more than 2 republicans who are racist. When an issue is that endemic within a group it is a group problem and not just a few individuals.

But there's not more than 2 Democrats who are racists? Enough with the partisan tribalism, there is multiple terrible people in every party.