the biden crime bill

[Elegiac]

I confess I had to look that term up. I had never heard it prior.

Providing I'm following correctly, out of Eco's fourteen points, does silencing them not run afoul of "Disagreement is Treason," "Obsession with a plot," and arguably "Fear of Difference?"

Not in the slightest. There's a world of difference between deplatforming and dehumanizing.

[Reaper0329]

I mean, here's the problem with your lot - you think tolerance involves acceptance of intolerance and the intolerant. It is not.

Ah, still labeling people you disagree with as alt right. At least you're consistent.

You're either missing my point or choosing not to see it. Allowing them to speak does not advocate for or against their position. It's not the content of the speech I'm supporting; it's the act of speaking. You can't cling to tolerance while also saying "because they disagree with me, they cannot be tolerated." Though really, we're both just circling the fishbowl of the tolerance paradox at this point.

In the context of the ad hominem, I find it amusing that because you don't approve of my position on, largely, an academic point, you feel the need to delegitimize my point by labeling me as alt-right and, therefore, unworthy of listening to. That seems rather...I dunno. Intolerant?

Not in the slightest. There's a world of difference between deplatforming and dehumanizing.

Doesn't forbidding them to speak on some level dehumanize them?

Also, dunno if either of you saw my earlier post regarding derailing this thread and my suggestion to create a new topic? I don't really care, mind you, but even as frequently as I fervently disagree with OP and question his authenticity in posting from time to time (not here), it's still his thread.

[Gestopft]

I always get told I'm clueless about Bernie's platforms... that include EXECUTIVE positions and NOT legislative, but when challenged to tell me what they are, people tell me I'm clueless, that I should go research it myself, etc. Funny how Bernie Bros themselves never really know what those executive positions are.

What the heck is the difference between a “legislative position” and an “executive position?” This is not a distinction I’ve ever heard in presidential politics.

[PosPosPos]

What the heck is the difference between a “legislative position” and an “executive position?”

How are you not able to tell the difference between two halves of a split hair? Blasphemy!

Although seriously, it's called multiple standards. People you like, you give them a pass. People you hate, you hold them to a standard that's unreasonably higher than everyone else.

[Elegiac]

Doesn't forbidding them to speak on some level dehumanize them?

No, considering the point of contention is what they are saying.

[Reaper0329]

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I'm not that type, by the way.

I'm the type that wants to regulate corporations and reduce wealth inequality. I believe that money equals power, and that power should be better spread, not centralized. Spread the money, you spread the power. I don't believe in any sort of communism though, I think competition is necessary and good. But profits should be a bonus, and not the raison d'etre, and workers should have a vested interest in their workplace, not feel like wage slaves.

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Ah, pardon the over breadth. I was going off memory, and that's prone to failure every now and again. I stand by my original incredulousness at the alt-right troll accusation, however.

[Grimbold21]

The whole "intellectual dark web" jordan peterson, dave rubin, make this argument, they acted like hillary was a marxist...

Ahhh so this what you were after... another ride on the ol Jordan Peterson merry go around

[lockedout]

So i see people on this forum specifically and online, reddit etc, talk about how joe biden of all people is too politically correctt and thats why they are going to vote for trump, because the democrats are just TOO far left

I think the way he touches peoples kids is the real problem.

[Ghostpanther]

I'll forgive someone's past views and becoming a better person. I won't forgive politicians for their past votes and say they have "evolved" now that it's politically convenient.

Track record will show Biden will leave the race as soon as it gets difficult. His voting record is nothing to brag about, his past statements are on par with Trump, and he will continue to gaff through the primary. He simply can't help himself.

As the old saying goes," time will tell." I am not saying you are wrong, but he sure is off to a good start. Leading everyone by double digits in all of the polls. But I also know, it is far too early to feel confident on his chances of winning. ( I am not going to vote for him anyway. ) A lot can happen between now and Nov. 2020.

[Kaleredar]

This is not about fucking Trump.

If Biden, in his "palatable centrism" is the candidate most capable of taking down Donald Trump, then he has my vote. Because, as I said, that is what's important in the political landscape at this time.

Warren has flak Trump and the republicans have been slinging against her; we saw how that served to take down Hillary in the last election. Bernie lost once, and politics rarely likes a loser; he might be seen as being too easily dismissable with his "crackpot socialist theories" as I'm sure fox news and partners will begin striking at him with.

I like both of their political platforms better than Biden, I just don't feel that they're as strong of candidates as appeals to the "average voter."

I think the way he touches peoples kids is the real problem.

People said that about Trump and women in general, but hey that never amounted to anything either now did it?

[lockedout]

If Biden, in his "palatable centrism" is the candidate most capable of taking down Donald Trump, then he has my vote. Because, as I said, that is what's important in the political landscape at this time.

Warren has flak Trump and the republicans have been slinging against her; we saw how that served to take down Hillary in the last election. Bernie lost once, and politics rarely likes a loser; he might be seen as being too easily dismissable with his "crackpot socialist theories" as I'm sure fox news and partners will begin striking at him with.

I like both of their political platforms better than Biden, I just don't feel that they're as strong of candidates as appeals to the "average voter."




People said that about Trump and women in general, but hey that never amounted to anything either now did it?

Sure but I mean Democrats wouldn't tolerate that right....?

[Kaleredar]

Sure but I mean Democrats wouldn't tolerate that right....?

The context (as is usually the case in these situations) is completely different.

Putting your hand on someone's shoulder, surprisingly, is not the same as grabbing someone's vagina without their consent. Even moreso when the person apologized for the former, while the latter person bragged about it.

[Gestopft]

If Biden, in his "palatable centrism" is the candidate most capable of taking down Donald Trump, then he has my vote. Because, as I said, that is what's important in the political landscape at this time.

The assumption here being that "centrism" is a) palatable, or that b) Biden's version of it is actually reflective of what the "middle voter" in America wants.

Bernie lost once, and politics rarely likes a loser

Shhh! Don't tell Ronald Reagan!

[Cthulhu 2020]

Pretty sure that's the case, especially when there's an extensive wikipedia article detailing all or most of his positions.

But you know, it's easier to be intellectually lazy and handwave everything.

Or you know, it's because the great majority of Sander's positions are things that the legislature has to do. People seem to forget that the presidency isn't some carte blanche to pass what you want in the senate and congress. Most of Bernie's ideas will be stonewalled by Republicans and Democrats not willing to go "that far left".

I get it, I like Bernie's positions too, I wish most of them were real. I'm asking: Are you able to identify which ones he can actually accomplish in the position of president? And also: Which ones can he accomplish as president in the tears 2020-2028?

The answer is very little.

I realize you guys want your pie in the sky, I'm operating within the bounds of reality. Your parents told you to reach for the stars and you can accomplish anything, mine did too, but I also learned I have to keep my expectations within reality. If you want to break reality and break the system you have to operate within, all I have to say is, good luck with doing that without major backlash.

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Ah, the ol' bernie bro smear, took a while for it to show up.

MLK jr was right about white moderates.

I'm sorry that your expectations for Bernie as prez are 100% unreasonable and unrealistic?

[PACOX]

Ah the I'd vote for Bernie Biden Trump supporters.

[Cthulhu 2020]

What the heck is the difference between a “legislative position” and an “executive position?” This is not a distinction I’ve ever heard in presidential politics.

You do realize our government operates on the concept of separation of powers? The legislature (i.e. Senate and Congress) has power to do certain things, and the presidency and his cabinet has powers to do other things? This is the problem with Republicans all too often, they think the president can do anything he wants. In reality the powers of the president are limited to the framework of the laws already in place. The president can choose which laws to enforce and how strictly to enforce them, and the president can sit in on bill writing and give advice on what they'd like to see, but ultimately it is our legislators who decide which laws are enabled, and congress/senate even has the power to force the president to enforce a law.

The president is the leader of our military and the executor of our laws. What positions does Bernie have that fit into that purview?

Or did all of you sleep through your civics classes?

[jeezusisacasual]

You do realize our government operates on the concept of separation of powers? The legislature (i.e. Senate and Congress) has power to do certain things, and the presidency and his cabinet has powers to do other things? This is the problem with Republicans all too often, they think the president can do anything he wants. In reality the powers of the president are limited to the framework of the laws already in place. The president can choose which laws to enforce and how strictly to enforce them, and the president can sit in on bill writing and give advice on what they'd like to see, but ultimately it is our legislators who decide which laws are enabled, and congress/senate even has the power to force the president to enforce a law.

The president is the leader of our military and the executor of our laws. What positions does Bernie have that fit into that purview?

Or did all of you sleep through your civics classes?

To hopefully reduce the long arm of the military without provoking or encouraging regime change wars. Not getting into trade escalations with China that our corporations built up. Doing a leftward pull back akin to euro powers. I am sure we wont have another military quagmire with him vs more neo-liberal war hawks. I would welcome a FDR styled approach to get out in the states of the dissenting congress people to get the people to turn on them. I already think we will be number 2 to China in the coming decade and then once that happens perhaps we can have common sense things like universal healthcare.

[Gestopft]

You do realize our government operates on the concept of separation of powers? The legislature (i.e. Senate and Congress) has power to do certain things, and the presidency and his cabinet has powers to do other things? This is the problem with Republicans all too often, they think the president can do anything he wants. In reality the powers of the president are limited to the framework of the laws already in place. The president can choose which laws to enforce and how strictly to enforce them, and the president can sit in on bill writing and give advice on what they'd like to see, but ultimately it is our legislators who decide which laws are enabled, and congress/senate even has the power to force the president to enforce a law.

The president is the leader of our military and the executor of our laws. What positions does Bernie have that fit into that purview?

Or did all of you sleep through your civics classes?

No, I understand all of this just fine, it’s just that nobody ever makes that distinction when it comes to presidential platforms. The usual division is between foreign and domestic policy. Or between social, economic, and foreign policy. When candidates are asked about their plan for healthcare, no reporters are asking “what are you going to direct your HHS secretary to do”- they’re asking what kind of bill they want Congress to put on their desk.

Yeah, of course Congress makes the laws, but in any given election there are 468 separate elections for Congress- the presidential election is one of the main ways we have a national dialogue about what we would like Congress to do since it’s the one election that everyone gets to participate in. Whether it’s immigration or taxes or healthcare or criminal justice, most of what presidential candidates run on starts with Congress.

[Sunseeker]

Or you know, it's because the great majority of Sander's positions are things that the legislature has to do. People seem to forget that the presidency isn't some carte blanche to pass what you want in the senate and congress. Most of Bernie's ideas will be stonewalled by Republicans and Democrats not willing to go "that far left".

I get it, I like Bernie's positions too, I wish most of them were real. I'm asking: Are you able to identify which ones he can actually accomplish in the position of president? And also: Which ones can he accomplish as president in the tears 2020-2028?

Okay, so your bitch with Bernie is that...everyone in Congress sucks.

Welcome to the Goddamned United States of America.

Republicans are gonna stonewall Biden on everything too. Unless ya know, it's the usual centrist-democrat bullshit like more war and shit.

I mean here's a challenge for you: What are even Biden's positions? What does he want to accomplish? What is he going to do that will somehow be more magically acceptable? I get that he's an easier candidate for the right to stomach, but if that's our measure of a Democrat, well we might as well fucking disband as a party if we just go "oh well the Republicans will just stop us at every turn, so lets elect someone the Republicans like!"

FUCK.

[Cthulhu 2020]

The one thing I imagine Bernie could effectively do as president is pull back our military force. But at the same time, Republicans are focused on killing brown people in the middle east in the desert, people who aren't even a threat to the US. Meanwhile, Democrats are trying to pull our focus out of the middle east and put it on Russia, China and North Korea's ever increasing aggression against the US. A lot of you in this thread who are fervently thinking I'm some kind of idiot or just hate me because I'm not drooling at the mouth over Bernie, may not like any war at all, but the reason the US is such a successful economic powerhouse is in large part due to its dominant military might position in the world.

China and Russia want that spot, and they're aggressively trying to take it, and directly challenging the US. My main concern with Bernie is complete pacifism. Stupid pacifism. I don't want dumb wars in the middle east, but I want to protect our station in the world. Many of you may disagree with the existence of the US as the world power of the world, but in the modern era, it's impossible for there not to be a world power. If the US isn't one, Russia or China will take that spot, and they will be warmongering the world over, and neither of those countries actually has a history of restraint when they were at the apex of their powers in history. They are decidedly imperialistic and forwardly aggressive.

Simply pulling out of the world militarily won't work, not unless you want the modern peace of the world as you know it to end. If you hate warmongering, don't trust the world hegemony with China or Russia. I get it, you don't like hegemony, but it's an inevitability.