[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Khaza-R]

Looking back on it

The lack of screen time for Cersei this season was absurd. D&D thinking 6 episodes would do these characters justice is a joke.

Seriously. It was like they were rationing her characters screen time

[Minikin]

Yara should be Master of the Navy, make Davos Master of Laws. He is a both an honorable knight and a smuggler. He knows both sides and has a good head on him.

Did they not make her master of ships? Can't recall

[Celista]

It was included in the credits because an actual band owns the rights to the song. The speculation is based on ignorance of business practices. Very irrational to read more into it.

I mean that it was played in the credits. There's no reason to play the song at all lol.

[Sooba]

"Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is... and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time."

- Marwyn the Mage, A Feast for Crows

This is wonderfully accurate for those in characters in-world who do not have all the information required to make sense of them. This really doesn't hold for book readers.

- - - Updated - - -

Did they not make her master of ships? Can't recall

By process of elimination I'm pretty sure they made Davos MoS.

[hynx]

Again, I think this is just the difference in talking to people that aren't involved in creative anything. The writers here didn't suddenly forget how to write. They weren't leaning on Martin because he flatly wasn't involved as much as people seem to think he was. They were working on an adaptation, not an original piece. Then they ran out of things to adapt. It's easier to interpret from a voice that is not your own than to try to invent things whole cloth. So they defaulted to their own style, and, at the same time, had to do a rush job on it. Even Martin said just recently, that a lot of the beats are the same but they are necessarily different because the adaptation left out or killed certain characters that the book did not. Martin also said that his last two books are like 3000 pages of manuscript and he could add more if he needed to, an option that TV guys don't have. I'm not saying it was well done, I'm saying no one would have done a good job and it's silly to blame the writers.

no no they didnt have to fucking rush it. i've stated before that they were offered 10 episodes for season 8, they CHOSE 6. same went for season 7. they are just lazy and wanted out. fuck em. i hope this blunder ruins their writing careers with their choices. they were even offered more than the 8 seasons too. but they were god damned lazy. the inept ability to maintain a creative style that was done for 6 seasons, and as you personally said,didnt have much of Martin's involvement, is ridiculous. now you are just contradicting your own argument.

[eschatological]

I mean, that's how she always was.

"Your rulers oppress you, I will break the wheel. By becoming your oppressive ruler. If you step out of line, Dracarys."
"I oppose slavery. But now that you've bent the knee, you're mine forever, and you'll like it. Or else, Dracarys."
"My cause is righteous vengeance to undo the wrongs done to me and my family. If you're engaging in righteous vengeance against my wrongs done to you, Dracarys."

And so forth.

I don't feel like the slaves were in any way bound to her. You can see that in the fighting pits storyline, where she wanted one thing, but eventually came to the understanding that the people wanted that.

I mean, none of those slaves actually joined her on her journey west. She expects nothing of them. She gained nothing from freeing them. She freed them because she saw slavery as part of the "wheel" she wanted to break. She did it because she disagreed with slavery after being essentially sold into slavery herself for her brother's benefit.

- - - Updated - - -

See, this is where you make excuses for her.

The people of King's Landing weren't innocent, either. They refused to bend the knee. Exactly what the Tarlys did.

.

But they literally did. It was THEM yelling to "ring the bells, ring the bells!" You heard women, and presumably children yelling it. Forget the fact that they shouldn't even know that bells ringing were supposed to mean surrender, the clear intention of the writers was to portray that the smallfolk were surrendering.

[Kellorion]

Why are they ruling from the Red Keep? The entire city is destroyed! Move whats left of the people to Old Town and start a new.

[Minikin]

This is wonderfully accurate for those in characters in-world who do not have all the information required to make sense of them. This really doesn't hold for book readers.

- - - Updated - - -



By process of elimination I'm pretty sure they made Davos MoS.

That KINDA makes sense. Could have placed Yara in there but I think Yara was more in shock about "wait independent was an option?!?"

[Sooba]

That KINDA makes sense. Could have placed Yara in there but I think Yara was more in shock about "wait independent was an option?!?"

Oh I agree with you. Master of ships is not really in Davos' wheelhouse. He knows how to sail one, but he hasn't overseen building them before. Yara has. An easy in-world explanation is that she simply wanted to go home.

[Derah]

You seeing her as a "heroic figure" prior to the episode is the issue. She's been doing appalling things to people the entire length of the series.

Correction: Appalling things TO APPALLING PEOPLE.

Understand that I'm not arguing she's a white innocent dove who's never killed or even harmed a fly in her entire life. She has killed. Plenty of times before. But she has NEVER killed innocent people, and she's specially never killed anyone out of spite or just because. There was always a goal, a purpose, something to gain.

Except when she did. The leadership of Astapor and the slavers of Meereen. The witch-woman who was seeking to fight back against the Dothraki who had raped and murdered her people. And so on.

Like I said; you're ignoring all the times she did exactly that, because it didn't fit with the image of her you wanted to be true. But it was never true.

What part of INNOCENT FUCKING PEOPLE is too hard for you to comprehend?

Name me one example of someone innocent that she murdered in cold blood without having any real reason to do so. Because the leadership of Astapor were slavers and horrible people. The slavers of mereen, same. The Witch-Woman poisoned her husband and caused her child to miscarriage.

Again, just because she's killed a lot of people, doesn't mean she'd kill ANYONE just for shits and giggles. If we get down to it, Jon Snow has also killed an awful lot of people, but if the show ended with him just stabbing a random peasant, and then raping his wife, I'd call bullshit, because it goes against what has been established of the character.

One of the main pillars of Dany's characterization is her abhorrence of those who murder children. Child murderers are her personal nemesis. There's no way in hell she'd gleefully murder thousands of children via dragonfire. Specially not when there was no reason to do so as the city surrendered already.

IF they so desperately wanted to make her a mad queen, they should have worked at it, showing her slow descent into madness, across several episodes maybe even several seasons. Have her execute the guy who brought her the charred remains of his daughter for daring to question her word. Have her in a scene where a bunch of lannister soldiers try to escape by holding human shields and she just burns them all, hostages and soldiers alike. Have her step by step moving backwards from her innate dislike of executing INNOCENT people. Because that's the key word here.

Jon Snow has also killed A LOT of people. I think if we do a kill count of how many he cuts down with that sword of his, the number will very easily reach five dozen at the least. But every single one of his victims were either Wildlings, or Bolton men, or lannister soldiers. All of them combatants. He has NEVER been shown just murdering in cold blood innocent unarmed people, except when he executed Janos (Justified, he disobeyed a direct order, an act punishable by death in the Night's Watch), and when he executed the mutineers who stabbed him (Justified. They killed him, and committed treason against the Night's Watch).

By that backwards stupid logic of yours, if in the final episode he had gone on a murdering rampage beheading women and children left and right, it would make sense, "because he's killed a lot of people".

[Logwyn]

Doubt that Ramsay did something to make her barren, then he couldn't have a son.

Still doesn't matter Sansa child will be from the house she marries into same with Arya. Bran is the only hope but "He can't have children?" Starks will flicker out. Guess Sansa could adopt and male child and make him a Stark?

- - - Updated - - -

That KINDA makes sense. Could have placed Yara in there but I think Yara was more in shock about "wait independent was an option?!?"

If I'd been one of the other Lords.. I'd been like I'm changing my vote too for my own independence.

[Minikin]

Oh I agree with you. Master of ships is not really in Davos' wheelhouse. He knows how to sail one, but he hasn't overseen building them before. Yara has. An easy in-world explanation is that she simply wanted to go home.

yeah i can see that. given how much shit iron islands went through under balon, then euron. need someone to buckle them down

[Sooba]

Still doesn't matter Sansa child will be from the house she marries into same with Arya. Bran is the only hope but "He can't have children?" Starks will flicker out. Guess Sansa could adopt and male child and make him a Stark?

- - - Updated - - -



If I'd been one of the other Lords.. I'd been like I'm changing my vote too for my own independence.

I'm sure there's some minor Karstark floating around somewhere. If we're really hung up on which Y chromosome they have, they'll suffice.

[Minikin]

Still doesn't matter Sansa child will be from the house she marries into same with Arya. Bran is the only hope but "He can't have children?" Starks will flicker out. Guess Sansa could adopt and male child and make him a Stark?

- - - Updated - - -



If I'd been one of the other Lords.. I'd been like I'm changing my vote too for my own independence.

lol yeap

how do you answer to the king?
a. your grace
b. your grace
c. your grace
d. independence [DLC not unlocked yet]

[Frontenac]

Still doesn't matter Sansa child will be from the house she marries into same with Arya. Bran is the only hope but "He can't have children?" Starks will flicker out. Guess Sansa could adopt and male child and make him a Stark?

Not really. House Lannister is one of the oldest families in Westeros and were First Men. However, there came a time when there was no male heir to the throne of Casterly Rock. So the lords of Westerlands crowned the son of one of the King's daughter, married to the Andal Joffrey Lydden. The son took the name Lannister. Sansa could marry a nobleman from the North and have her children bear the name Stark.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh I agree with you. Master of ships is not really in Davos' wheelhouse. He knows how to sail one, but he hasn't overseen building them before. Yara has. An easy in-world explanation is that she simply wanted to go home.

He's only the Master of Ships (minister of Navy or Lord Admiral) you know, not the shipwright.

[MardestyGSOG]

HBO: offers D&D all the resources they need to reach ten seasons to conclude the story
D&D: gets Star Wars offer and determines that 13 episodes is enough to squeeze 3 seasons of material into
Season 8: sucks
Fans: petitions to remake season and pissed that show is ruined
D&D: (pikachu face)

[buck008]

no no they didnt have to fucking rush it. i've stated before that they were offered 10 episodes for season 8, they CHOSE 6. same went for season 7. they are just lazy and wanted out. fuck em. i hope this blunder ruins their writing careers with their choices. they were even offered more than the 8 seasons too. but they were god damned lazy. the inept ability to maintain a creative style that was done for 6 seasons, and as you personally said,didnt have much of Martin's involvement, is ridiculous. now you are just contradicting your own argument.

It's not contradictory. I explained why in the post you just quoted.

You also have no idea why they chose a shortened season. You're just projecting your frustration into it. While HBO may say they are on board for whatever, the last two seasons we've heard numerous stories about how things were cut for budgetary reasons. I'm sure there were things going on behind the scenes that we may never know. I had also heard that the two main guys had an hour length in mind for the whole series before things even started. Now that's not great, but they also aren't the only people to stick steadfastly to a planned ending that is no longer appropriate. It's not lazy to leave this as is. Generally it is stubbornness. People get attached to whatever vision they had.

[MardestyGSOG]

It's not contradictory. I explained why in the post you just quoted.

You also have no idea why they chose a shortened season. You're just projecting your frustration into it. While HBO may say they are on board for whatever, the last two seasons we've heard numerous stories about how things were cut for budgetary reasons. I'm sure there were things going on behind the scenes that we may never know. I had also heard that the two main guys had an hour length in mind for the whole series before things even started. Now that's not great, but they also aren't the only people to stick steadfastly to a planned ending that is no longer appropriate. It's not lazy to leave this as is. Generally it is stubbornness. People get attached to whatever vision they had.

HBO basically offered them whatever they needed to extend beyond 8 seasons, when they declined they tried to compromise to extend the final season to 10 episodes, they declined again. The ONLY ones who imposed this 13 episode/2 season deadline was dan and Dave, literally everyone else said no, bad idea, George, hbo, and 99% of fans(bootlickers aside) all knew this was going to be a disaster, and it was. Dan and Dave literally did this against the wishes of everyone even with the resources on the table to take this as far as they wanted, they wanted to get to Star Wars, so they rushed it, and it’s despicable that they care so little for how this ended

[Halicia]

Still doesn't matter Sansa child will be from the house she marries into same with Arya. Bran is the only hope but "He can't have children?" Starks will flicker out. Guess Sansa could adopt and male child and make him a Stark?

That's only if the North is strictly patriarchal, which I've seen little to suggest. (they seem to contradict themselves over whether the North will accept a Queen or not)

Historically, if a female ruler is in this situation she could...

A) take someone as a consort instead of a husband and her child would be found legitimate and of her house, but with less claim than that of a future husband

B) negotiate within the marriage contract which children will be assigned to which line

C) a female ruler is treated as male in regards to her line so long as her husband is of lesser rank

[Knuckle]

The only way I can describe S8 and to an extent S7 is disappointment of missed opportunity. I saw a reddit post describing it as watching a gold medalist give a 10/10 performance, only to face plant the landing. That's exactly how I feel. You wanted it to be great so badly, you saw it in sights and all the groundwork was done. But it just didn't happen. There's no taking it back, no pretending it didn't happen. It's just there and it hurts knowing it easily could've been different.

My main gripes are the choices in Arya killing the NK, Rhaegals death, Jaime post 8.3, Cersei's death, Dany going mad and Bran being the new king. Not because I'm upset about them, but because I think they are the book endings (Besides rhaegal, who was used for shock value and to give 8.4 a major event) and I believe the show runners decided at the last minute to scrap their own ideas and went with the books. This bothers me because when the show decided to start straying away from the books and had characters behave much differently, they changed their trajectory. So at the last minute to snap them into a different place, it just didn't feel right and we could all feel it.

If I were to list all the issues I have with S8, it'd be in the 100's. So at this point, things like the Dothraki charging in stupidly and the Brienne+Jaime sex scene aren't even high on my list.

I'm not going to hate on D&D, because they didn't sign up to write this much of the story. When they began this project 15 years ago, I'm sure they expected at least WoW to be released. But when you take artistic liberties from the source material, you are also responsible for where those decisions take you. So for them to take the easy way out, just use GRRM's bullet points and finish it off was IMO an injustice to the fans, all the people involved in the show and to HBO who paid these guys a lot of money to do a job that entails being a writer. Which is why I believe the petition to remove them from the star wars project is actually a decent way to send a message. In the end, they took the easy way out instead of being creative and threw their financial backer under the bus. I think it speaks volumes and they do not deserve the responsibility of a multi-million dollar franchise. People need to know that, because a great injustice was done by these 2.