Homeowner fatally shoots teen who was part of group shooting paintball guns at home

[ohwell]

Yeah its an hillarious country to watch. Here the old guy walks out and yell git off my lawn you little twirp. In the US their gun boner is so big, guy walks out, start shooting at someones car lmao. Country full of no fucking balls, even an eldery woman in other first world countries go outside without a gun to tell people to piss off.

I doubt if wherever you are someone is shooting at your house you say get off my lawn or piss off. Get out of here with your nation bashing bs.

[horbindr]

It's not bullshit to me. And as soon as I had my first kid I 100% changed my safety and driving habits. Don't push your shortcomings onto other people.

well then be more specific? what steps have you taken beyond the normal steps everybody takes?

what steps have you taken against an accident not your fault beyond getting a proper kid seat and maybe a car with extra airbags/features?
what steps are you taking beyond eating healthy/exercising to prevent heart disease and cancer?
what steps have you taken against a break in or home invasion besides the gun? reinforced door is pretty cool, but most people don't go further then best practices and maybe an alarm system.

and since you said the gun was not just for home invasions but also for people who might specifically target your familly, are you also taking any steps to prevent getting hit by lightning or anything like that?

[Krastyn]

Something that goes up and then down, is much less dangerous than shooting straight ahead.

And is incredibly more likely to injure or kill an innocent bystander.

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Its sad that you would assume that kids running around shooting Paintball guns, also have a real guns, and would shoot you with them.

In what world is a 19 year old man a kid?

[luc54]

alternative facts right there. I guarantee you cannot have a quiet conversation if paintball guns are being shot near by.

Biggest problem here is there's almost zero data available.
Here's highest you I could find

Black Maxx Paintball Gun shot with paintball 116.5dB to 119dB
Black Maxx Paintball Gun shot without paintballs 126dB

And below shows some of them are much quieter

We used a decibel meter to test the Tippmann Model 98 at our field. At 10', the decibel level for a marker firing a paintball was below 45 decibels. At 300', the noise of the marker was within ambient noise level.

Either way it seems to depend on the marker being used. If it's the former I can understand. if it's the latter quiet, he's a fucking asshole that deserves punishment for it.

[Carnedge]

well then be more specific? what steps have you taken beyond the normal steps everybody takes?

what steps have you taken against an accident not your fault beyond getting a proper kid seat and maybe a car with extra airbags/features?
what steps are you taking beyond eating healthy/exercising to prevent heart disease and cancer?
what steps have you taken against a break in or home invasion besides the gun? reinforced door is pretty cool, but most people don't go further then best practices and maybe an alarm system.

and since you said the gun was not just for home invasions but also for people who might specifically target your familly, are you also taking any steps to prevent getting hit by lightning or anything like that?

I check the tie rod ends on my car every month as well as the torque on my lugnuts. I don't expect the guy making minimum wage at the safety inspection place to actually know what "alright" break pads are. I change and rotate my tires whenever it's needed. I use seat belts and don't drive like an ass (tailgating, no using turn signals, whipping from lane to lane, playing with my phone or radio ect ect). I drive defensively. In other words I actually pay attention to what other people are doing on the sides, behind and in front of me.

Pretty basic stuff.

But lets stay on topic please.

[Krastyn]

I don't think shooting and killing someone because they might have a firearm on them, and not using it, would hold up in court.

Precedence says yes.

As I have said before multiple times already in this thread, there is not enough information to make a clear judgement either way. There are a lot of possible scenarios where he was justified. There are also a lot where he wasn't.

[Raelbo]

But it's not loud. Most rate paint ball guns seem to be at 45 to 48 decibels. That's not louder than small pop for fuck sake. That's same as quiet conversation in terms of loudness.

True, gunshots are orders of magnitude louder than paintball shots. But remember that sound attenuates rapidly with distance. Also remember that scattering effects (reflections off various surface) can have an amplification or attenuation effect. So, a paintball gun fired at very close range could sound louder than a gunshot at a much larger distance.

Lastly, also understand that our ears adjust to varying noise conditions. It is very difficult to objectively assess a noise level without an accurate reference. At night ambient noise levels tend to be a lot lower, meaning that a shot from a paintball gun might sound louder to the human ear.

I agree 100% that if you stood 50 meters from me and fired first a firearm and then a paintball gun, I could easily tell which was which. But without the correct reference, (ie just the paintball gun at an indeterminate distance) and in a stressful situation, I can imagine it might become a lot harder to discern what you're actually hearing.

[Carnedge]

Biggest problem here is there's almost zero data available.
Here's highest you I could find

And below shows some of them are much quieter



Either way it seems to depend on the marker being used. If it's the former I can understand. if it's the latter quiet, he's a fucking asshole that deserves punishment for it.

Yes. Like I've said many times in previous posts, Every paintball guns make different levels of noise. As well as real guns. They also bleed over one another in a grey area where they are extremely hard to distinguish from one another.

[Krunxx]

All the articles on this are so vague there is no way to accurately judge what happened. But given the minimal data provided I would say the homeowner had enough cause to feel threatened. And I am largely against current gun laws and regulations, IE they are stupidly lax. But yeah, a group of men outside someones house in the dark with what could be a firearm. Out come will most likely not be good. Especially in the sad state this nation is currently in.

[Raelbo]

The case being "let teenagers die so I get guns"

What are you even talking about?

If you're trying to argue that, in general guns are a bad idea and that the USA's gun laws are bad, then sure, I agree with you.

If you're trying to argue that in this specific case, the individual deserves to be convicted of murder, then I am saying that the specific facts pertaining to the case need to be properly examined. He may be guilty of murder, or it may be a case of justified use of force in self defence that resulted in a death.

[roboscorcher]

1) Do you know the odds? At what %, in your opinion, do we have the right to own a weapon for defensive purposes? In my opinion, if there is even a fraction of a percent chance.
2) Never bring a knife to a gun fight
3) How did you come to this conclusion exactly?

1) No right to own a gun, only earned privilege. To use someone's gun defensively? I'm more lenient here, but proving self-defense is still tricky.
2) In close-quarters combat (which is what 90% of in-house combat would be), a knife is much more effective. No stray bullets, no reloading, easier to conceal and use.
3) There seems to be a lot of cases of accidental deaths than successful self-defenses. If you have data disputing this, I'd be interested to see it.

[ohiostate124]

Don’t live in a gang infested area, don’t commit suicide, and don’t do something stupid so a cop shoots you and the odds of getting killed by a gun in America are basically zero.

[Carnedge]

1) No right to own a gun, only earned privilege. To use someone's gun defensively? I'm more lenient here, but proving self-defense is still tricky.
2) In close-quarters combat (which is what 90% of in-house combat would be), a knife is much more effective. No stray bullets, no reloading, easier to conceal and use.
3) There seems to be a lot of cases of accidental deaths than successful self-defenses. If you have data disputing this, I'd be interested to see it.

1) So, no then.
2) You can have my house if you cut me down in my house with a knife before I cut you in half with my shotgun. You remind me of this idiot I was in Iraq with that had a bandoleer of ninja stars draped over his shoulder when we went into Fallujah.
3) "There seems to be a lot"? Seems to be or is a lot? What's the reference point exactly? What metric are we using here? You just spit out some claim that has nothing to do with anything. Just because some moron shoots his kid that was sneaking back into their house after sneaking out or some woman blowing her face off because she doesn't know which why the barrel is supposed to be pointed has nothing to do with anything here.

Darwinism is Darwinism.

[BargainBoy]

Morons shooting paintballs at houses in the middle of the night. Well, they learned that they live in America.

[Hilhen7]

If the father really felt threatened why would he leave the house to approach the suspect?

Wouldn't you take cover and fire at the target from within the house?

[roboscorcher]

1) So, no then.

Correct. Owning a gun just so you can play cop in your own house is dumb, unless you are fully trained to discern threats properly, like a cop. Use 911 like everyone else. Maybe if you're super remote and properly trained, you can earn the privelege of owning a firearm for defense. But it's absurd to give it to untrained people.

2) You can have my house if you cut me down in my house with a knife before I cut you in half with my shotgun.

What if I'm surrounded by your friends and family? Would you still rather shoot me than stab? There's so many potential drawbacks to taking a shot in your own house when your family is inside, it's rarely worth the risk. It's safer to use the knife or bat or taser or pepper spray. Many things are better suited for the task.

3) "There seems to be a lot"? Seems to be or is a lot? What's the reference point exactly? What metric are we using here? You just spit out some claim that has nothing to do with anything.

It has everything to do with the subject: look at the OP's article! Why are we here, if not to discuss these accidental gun deaths?

Just because some moron shoots his kid that was sneaking back into their house after sneaking out or some woman blowing her face off because she doesn't know which why the barrel is supposed to be pointed has nothing to do with anything here.

Darwinism is Darwinism.

Would you tell that to the paintballer here?

[Laerrus]

I doubt he'll be convicted.

The Texas Penal Code seems to support the contention that provided he had a reasonable belief that his life or the life of his family was in danger, he could employ deadly force without any duty to retreat. Given it doesn't exactly sound like he falls into the presumption of reasonableness in subsection b, from what I can see, the attorneys (if it gets to trial) will be arguing over things like the youth's behavior, how similar the paintball gun looked to a real gun, and the nature of the confrontation once the homeowner came outside. I'd like more details, but my wager is that he'll walk.

This is exactly how it will go.

The old guy is going to be just fine.

This should be a lesson to anyone, don't fucking trespass and do crazy shit on someone else's property here in Texas.

[Reaper0329]

Reasonable fear for one's life falls to pieces once you actually look at and listen to a CO2-powered paintball gun. The gigantic hopper and bulky CO2 canister, along with the discharge that sounds nothing like a firearm, torpedo that argument. What happened was either he went out knowing it was just a bunch of stupid kids with paintballs and killed someone for minor vandalism/being a stupid-ass teenager (and, hypothetical reader, you show me a stupid teenager doing stupid things and I show you the entirety of human history), or he cannot differentiate a child's toy from a lethal weapon and is mentally incompetent to own a firearm. Either way, a decent lawyer will shred him in court.

Then again, as you say, this is Texas. All he has to do is give some teary-eyed speech about how he fondles his 30.06 late at night and the jury'll give him a pass.

That's not necessarily true. Primarily, the loud bang of a firearm is a result of the bullet reaching an FPS greater than that of sound, creating a sonic boom. If a shooter uses subsonic ammunition, however, the noise is substantially reduced (subsonic ammunition being readily available in .22lr, .45ACP, and .300 Blackout, off the top of my head, and .300 Blackout is typically fired from AR platforms). Admittedly, the gasses from either of the centerfire rounds I listed (.300BLK and .45) would still be supersonic and, therefore, still loud, but a subsonic .22lr can be shot at about 68 decibels. For reference, a paintball gun at ten feet is about 45 decibels and a toilet flushing is about 75 decibels.

Given that is the case, I'd direct you to my second post (#32 in this thread) and follow the links. I absolutely concur with you that if they were out there with the "standard" paintball guns with the gigantic hopper and CO2 apparatus, then the defense certainly takes a hit (albeit one that is not necessarily dispositive). If the kids had anything like what I linked, it's almost certain the homeowner's reasonable fear was justified.

What matters here is what the homeowner believed, and if that belief was reasonable. If the homeowner saw and appreciated that the boys had paintball guns and STILL shot one, that's murder; there is no belief that his life was in immediate danger, and even if he did, for some reason, believe that his life was threatened by the paintball gun, that belief is not reasonable. If the boy had a realistic looking paintball gun, or even if the homeowner could not positively ID the paintball gun as a paintball gun and the kid suddenly drew on him, he'll probably walk if the jury finds his belief that he was in danger of imminent death or grievous bodily harm was reasonably held.

There are not nearly enough facts to conclusively determine anything. But there's a very real legal foundation that allows the homeowner to walk here. Beyond that, it's up to the attorneys and what the jury is willing to give weight to.

[minteK917]

Come to america Keyboard warrior and run that sweet mouth here and you will find out about no balls.. I bet you have nvr left your 3rd world shithole anyhow....

I bet youll run to get your gun lmao.

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I doubt if wherever you are someone is shooting at your house you say get off my lawn or piss off. Get out of here with your nation bashing bs.

Shooting paintball, definitivly.. Im in Canada a country where guns and paintballs are legal and i know paintballs sounds nothing alike. Texas is def small balls area, need that gun to make up for it.

[Carnedge]

Correct. Owning a gun just so you can play cop in your own house is dumb, unless you are fully trained to discern threats properly, like a cop. Use 911 like everyone else. Maybe if you're super remote and properly trained, you can earn the privelege of owning a firearm for defense. But it's absurd to give it to untrained people.



What if I'm surrounded by your friends and family? Would you still rather shoot me than stab? There's so many potential drawbacks to taking a shot in your own house when your family is inside, it's rarely worth the risk. It's safer to use the knife or bat or taser or pepper spray. Many things are better suited for the task.



It has everything to do with the subject: look at the OP's article! Why are we here, if not to discuss these accidental gun deaths?



Would you tell that to the paintballer here?

1) "So, no then" as in you don't even know the odds you're asking me about.

Good job.

2) Why are you threatening my family? I will report you.

3) It wasn't an accident. The home owner intended to kill the person shooting at his house.

And yes I would. The dumbass shouldn't have been grouped up with 10 other morons in the middle of the night on some dudes property shooting at his house.

Darwinism is Darwinism

I'm done responding to you and reading your pointless posts. You're not even a challenge.