Wow is 2nd on twitch with 141k viewers with classic beta.

[Prozach]

Classic players are crazy

https://clips.twitch.tv/RelentlessSl...StoneLightning

Sodapoppin wants to kill 1500 furbolgs, a 20 hour grind farm to get an offhand. Ahah

That kind of sums up Vanilla perfectly. You had to grind your ass off in that game to get anything of value. Like the main thing people complain about with each expansion is how it's "more of the same", more grinding, more questing, etc. Vanilla is going to really screw with peoples' heads when they remember not only how much MORE grinding was required then but how subpar the rewards and just how much more difficult the rep grinds were.

The rose tinted glasses have already been shattered for most. Just wait until you have 100k other people all wanting to dive into MC and realizing how ridiculous the process was to even get in there, let alone the six months most guilds had to spend before they were properly geared to move on to BWL. And then still having to run that place over and over again for the stupid t2 pants...

[Vynestra]

Welcome to Vanilla. Lol if you ever thought the grinds in Legion/BfA were bad.

I wish I could grind 1500 furbolgs to finish the AP grind.

I think most players would prefer that to the current grind, the current grind makes you log on weekly and spend forever to finish it, where as in classic it was just a simple grind.

Thats why the legion/bfa grinds are bad - they're MUCH more involved, they're meant to keep you active and subbed, stringing you along until the next patch.

20 hours to finish AP grind would be a fucking dream.

Think of how many hours people spend daily doing WQ's to maximize AP/rep for chests, grinding isles, M+, raids, daily H's to finish AP.

The AP grind is a much longer grind than anything in classic could offer.

[BargainBoy]

They are watching and listening to the streamer more than just watching game play. I watched Asmond last night and it was entertaining. 2 hours went by before I even knew it.

Same thing happened with me. The really good streamers actually have some personality.

[Maudib]

Welcome to Vanilla. Lol if you ever thought the grinds in Legion/BfA were bad.

The difference is... Sodapoppin is choosing to do that grind. He could opt for other offhands. In BfA.. you HAVE to grind Azerite to progress.

In Classic... if you want THAT BiS offhand... you choose to grind Furlnogs. In BfA if you want the BiS item you just keep doing WQs until one procs with a socket and Titanforges. Or keep running Mythic Dungeons hoping the item drops AND Titanforges with a socket.

OR...


Just kill 1500 Furlbogs and know you are going to get your well earned item.

Which player is crazy again?

[Vynestra]

The difference is... Sodapoppin is choosing to do that grind. He could opt for other offhands. In BfA.. you HAVE to grind Azerite to progress.

In Classic... if you want THAT BiS offhand... you choose to grind Furlnogs. In BfA if you want the BiS item you just keep doing WQs until one procs with a socket and Titanforges. Or keep running Mythic Dungeons hoping the item drops AND Titanforges with a socket.

OR...


Just kill 1500 Furlbogs and know you are going to get your well earned item.

Which player is crazy again?

Theres a difference.

Both players are grinding to get a bis, however in classic even if you just want decent gear, you need to grind for it in some extent, in bfa you can much more easily and casually get decent gear.

And the 1500 furbolgs isn't a lot better - it's not a guaranteed drop after 1500, you might need to kill 3000, 4500 or even more if you're that unlucky.

The same as in bfa, its all RNG and luck.

I don't get why classic people feel the constant need to bring down bfa - The response from bfa people will be to bring down classic.

BFA is the only reason you're getting classic, stop being an ungrateful twat about it.

When they release the next wow xpac, where do you think all these classic streamers will be? Playing classic? No, asmongold and all the other big wow streamers will be on 9.0 launch, 110%.

If that doesn't tell you what you need to know then you're beyond reason.

[Vyox]

I wish I could grind 1500 furbolgs to finish the AP grind.

The thing that makes vanilla different is it's not just que for furbog gind and grind furbogs. You gotta fly to Winterspring or Felwood and while in winterspring there are Eko farm groups spamming if you furbogs are being camped (eko farming is about 40g and hour), there are black lotus spawns out the ass to check. There could possibly be a group farming demonic runes that you may need if you're a mana user for raid. There is also the chance of wpvp at all times. There is also a good grind in felwood for other items that sell well (fel cloth from satyrs or toxic horrors for essence of water).

The point is that you don't ever really just mindlessly grind one thing most of the time you do 2-3 grinds at a time in a very active world.

These grinds are numerous but they always serve your personal goals. The goals aren't demanded by the game but you choose them.

[Gorsameth]

The difference is... Sodapoppin is choosing to do that grind. He could opt for other offhands. In BfA.. you HAVE to grind Azerite to progress.

In Classic... if you want THAT BiS offhand... you choose to grind Furlnogs. In BfA if you want the BiS item you just keep doing WQs until one procs with a socket and Titanforges. Or keep running Mythic Dungeons hoping the item drops AND Titanforges with a socket.

OR...


Just kill 1500 Furlbogs and know you are going to get your well earned item.

Which player is crazy again?

Or in modern WoW you just ignore the concept of BiS and pretend like Titanforge doesn't exist. If it happens its nice but there is no reason to go for it for 99.99999999% of players.

Same with the Azurite grind. You can just ignore it for the most part and the catchup mechanic will reduce the grind required every week.

If you don't enjoy it, don't fucking do it.
A concept that appears to be completely lost to many.

[Vynestra]

The thing that makes vanilla different is it's not just que for furbog gind and grind furbogs. You gotta fly to Winterspring or Felwood and while in winterspring there are Eko farm groups spamming if you furbogs are being camped (eko farming is about 40g and hour), there are black lotus spawns out the ass to check. There could possibly be a group farming demonic runes that you may need if you're a mana user for raid. There is also the chance of wpvp at all times. There is also a good grind in felwood for other items that sell well (fel cloth from satyrs or toxic horrors for essence of water).

The point is that you don't ever really just mindlessly grind one thing most of the time you do 2-3 grinds at a time in a very active world.

These grinds are numerous but they always serve your personal goals. The goals aren't demanded by the game but you choose them.

The last time I queue'd for anything on live was like, a month or month 1/2 ago.

[Heathy]

I think the issues won't be present until you start raiding, because these days, you can pug really easily the game has been tweaked so many times to let ppl pug whenever they want without fucking themselves over.

enter classic, you join a pug, it fails or you only clear a few bosses, you are then fucked for the whole week. so will it be fun at end game for pugging? it wasn't the first time around, as no-one wanted to get saved to failures.

i guess time will tell, as someone who can't really dedicate time to being online every evening, the idea of raid lockouts brings back memories of afk fests. clear raid content on wednesday, farm dungeons till the following wednesday, I've heard many ppl saying they will stream it, but i'm not sure how action packed it will be if its not raid day.

I don't think much of asmongold, I don't personally watch him, I do watch other streamers though but ill usually watch them for the content they provide, not necessarily the game they are playing. for example, ill watch kotton, playing tarkov or other games, because I'm interested in what they have to say. what game the guy is playing can be irrelevant. i find asmongold does to streaming, the thing i dislike the most, he turns it into a soapbox, and that is where streaming fails for me I don't care at all for the soapbox mentality of streaming, spurring ppl into a frenzy.

[toffmcsoft]

Truly goes to show how popular classic wow will be.
The HYPE is real.

Classic is going to revive wow and take over retail.

[Vynestra]

Or in modern WoW you just ignore the concept of BiS and pretend like Titanforge doesn't exist. If it happens its nice but there is no reason to go for it for 99.99999999% of players.

Same with the Azurite grind. You can just ignore it for the most part and the catchup mechanic will reduce the grind required every week.

If you don't enjoy it, don't fucking do it.
A concept that appears to be completely lost to many.

This, it's not nearly as required as in classic to raid.

I don't have BiS gear and im working on M mekka, a fight far harder than any raid boss in classic.

I don't have any great M+ dung stuff either, only a few socketed items.

In classic if you want to raid you need a pretty specific set of gear for a lot of bosses, so you almost have to grind to get certain pieces to do certain things. Not all, but a lot.

- - - Updated - - -

Truly goes to show how popular classic wow will be.
The HYPE is real.

Classic is going to revive wow and take over retail.

what a pipe dream. I mean truly.

[Woobels]

Or in modern WoW you just ignore the concept of BiS and pretend like Titanforge doesn't exist. If it happens its nice but there is no reason to go for it for 99.99999999% of players.

Same with the Azurite grind. You can just ignore it for the most part and the catchup mechanic will reduce the grind required every week.

If you don't enjoy it, don't fucking do it.
A concept that appears to be completely lost to many.

The exact same goes for this furbolg offhand though.

[TheDeeGee]

And?

Every hyped game has a lot of viewers the first couple of weeks, then when it turns out it sucks it will drop to the bottom.

[WowClassic]

And?

Every hyped game has a lot of viewers the first couple of weeks, then when it turns out it sucks it will drop to the bottom.

Which other 15 year old games have been getting 150k viewers? Classic is not just any other game, it is genre defining.

[mich4el]

Any classic streamers that doesnt look like Waluigi or a neckbeard?

Why do you care how they look like, are you shallow cuck or you want to suck their dicks?

[Prozach]

The difference is... Sodapoppin is choosing to do that grind. He could opt for other offhands. In BfA.. you HAVE to grind Azerite to progress.

In Classic... if you want THAT BiS offhand... you choose to grind Furlnogs. In BfA if you want the BiS item you just keep doing WQs until one procs with a socket and Titanforges. Or keep running Mythic Dungeons hoping the item drops AND Titanforges with a socket.

OR...


Just kill 1500 Furlbogs and know you are going to get your well earned item.

Which player is crazy again?

So you're saying you didn't HAVE to do grinds in vanilla? What a horrible comparison. You have to grind a variety of reps, attunements and dungeons over and over again to even start certain raids or beat specific bosses. Comparing the Azerite grind, which basically happens naturally as you play anyway, to MC attunement, fire pot recipe, Ony cloak runs, ZG rep grinds and so many others is ridiculous. You act like Vanilla allowed you to just jump right into any content you wanted as soon as you hit 60.

- - - Updated - - -

Which other 15 year old games have been getting 150k viewers? Classic is not just any other game, it is genre defining.

It's a "new" old experience. If you didn't already have a huge established userbase, do you think that number would be anywhere near 150k? Furthermore, do you actually believe every one of those viewers is going to play at launch? Or that even 50% will stick around after a few months? The delusion is strong in this one...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Truly goes to show how popular classic wow will be.
The HYPE is real.

Classic is going to revive wow and take over retail.

If your going off twitch numbers that’s very unlikely as the twitch numbers have been higher for bfa and you’d think the classic hype would beat them out but no.

[WowClassic]

If your going off twitch numbers that’s very unlikely as the twitch numbers have been higher for bfa and you’d think the classic hype would beat them out but no.

I doubt it's been higher for BfA. But even if it was, BfA was a brand new expansion, and now it has almost no viewers because it turned out to be trash. For a 15 year old game to be in the top 3 of Twitch is *ridiculous*, no other remastered game has ever come close, even Age of Empires.

Classic will mantain viewers because all the big streamers want to play Classic WoW. "Hurrr they only want to do that because of viewer count"...Yeh and why do you think the viewers want Classic in the first place (protip: it's actually fun).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I doubt it's been higher for BfA. But even if it was, BfA was a brand new expansion, and now it has almost no viewers because it turned out to be trash. For a 15 year old game to be in the top 3 of Twitch is *ridiculous*, no other remastered game has ever come close, even Age of Empires.

Classic will mantain viewers because all the big streamers want to play Classic WoW. "Hurrr they only want to do that because of viewer count"...Yeh and why do you think the viewers want Classic in the first place (protip: it's actually fun).

To quote kathranis it wasn’t only bfas launch even a QA got higher numbers.

I posted the screenshot of BFA's numbers the other day. That was taken pretty close to the game's peak concurrent viewership.

https://twitchtracker.com/games/18122



As you can see, WoW viewership peaked on August 13, 2018 after the early NA launch.

Notable peaks by date and event:

• August 5, 2015 - Legion Announced at Gamescom (approx. 345k)
• August 30, 2016 - Legion Launch (approx. 225k)
• August 13, 2018 - BFA Launch (approx. 605k)
• September 18, 2018 - Dev Livestream with Ion (approx. 310k)
• November 2, 2018 - Blizzcon (approx. 265k)
• January-February, 2019 - BoD World First Race (approx. 155k - 210k)
• May 15, 2019 - Classic Beta Start (approx. 190k)

It's hard to get concrete peak numbers, especially going back before 2017, so allow some room for error. Exact peaks may be +/- 50k it seems, though these are still all the biggest, most obvious peaks.

[Maudib]

And the 1500 furbolgs isn't a lot better - it's not a guaranteed drop after 1500, you might need to kill 3000, 4500 or even more if you're that unlucky.

The same as in bfa, its all RNG and luck.

I don't get why classic people feel the constant need to bring down bfa - The response from bfa people will be to bring down classic.

BFA is the only reason you're getting classic, stop being an ungrateful twat about it.

I was thinking it was a reputation reward which is why he would be grinding Timbermaw rep. I noticed you didn't say he could ALSO get it in his VERY FIRST KILL?

It's not all luck. Rep rewards and crafting provide quality items in Classic.

If you look at my response it was in reply to someone trying to bring down Classic... I guess my response is "It's a Classic forum. Whose going out of their way here?"

Classic is the only reason there is a BfA... you're welcome.

- - - Updated - - -

So you're saying you didn't HAVE to do grinds in vanilla? What a horrible comparison. You have to grind a variety of reps, attunements and dungeons over and over again to even start certain raids or beat specific bosses. Comparing the Azerite grind, which basically happens naturally as you play anyway, to MC attunement, fire pot recipe, Ony cloak runs, ZG rep grinds and so many others is ridiculous. You act like Vanilla allowed you to just jump right into any content you wanted as soon as you hit 60.

- - - Updated - - -



It's a "new" old experience. If you didn't already have a huge established userbase, do you think that number would be anywhere near 150k? Furthermore, do you actually believe every one of those viewers is going to play at launch? Or that even 50% will stick around after a few months? The delusion is strong in this one...

'
Of course it has "grind". It's how you are rewarded that makes it better. And Azerite happens naturally as you play? Well sorry, but BfA gameplay isn't compelling enough to also get bonus Azerite doing it... at least not for me.

Classic didn't have a user base when it was launched and grew to 7 million players... it had to grow on it's own merits.

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Or in modern WoW you just ignore the concept of BiS and pretend like Titanforge doesn't exist. If it happens its nice but there is no reason to go for it for 99.99999999% of players.

Same with the Azurite grind. You can just ignore it for the most part and the catchup mechanic will reduce the grind required every week.

If you don't enjoy it, don't fucking do it.
A concept that appears to be completely lost to many.

Sure man... ignore the lack of a rewards system.

But you are wrong. Millions don't enjoy BfA... and aren't doing it. We get that concept loud and clear.