[Megathread] PlayStation 5

[Shinzai]

I think a big feature of the PS5 is going to be BC and boost mode with PS4 games. I think many PS4 games, especially Sony exclusives, will likely get PS5 patches which if nothing else improve load times and perhaps frame rates.

That is purely speculation. The other benefit of a physical license(disc) is being able to easily trade games. That could also be accomplished with digital, just not as easily.

Anyway, if PS5 is BC with PS4(which we think it will be) and if BC is a big selling feature(which we think it will be) it would not make sense to offer a PS5 without a disc drive as the primary console. That's because many(most?) of our licenses are the discs and BC would be useless for any game not purchased digitally.

Of course there could be a digital only PS5 at launch, or eventually as an alternate SKU, with a cheaper price tag, but at 50 dollars cheaper, Sony is losing more money than they are saving by removing the disc drive.

Well, the idea is simply that the main console will have a disc drive and as I proposed, they could release a secondary, digital only system.

They don't lose money on a digital only system, because it locks the buyer into the PSN eco-system. Every purchase is processed by Sony with Sony's online services. There's no middle man.

Companies make 0 money from traded/second hand games and they've tried to clamp down on the process of exchanging games in all sorts of ways over the years.

PS4 costed $381 to make at launch. After accounting for shipping and retailer cut Sony made absolutely nothing on each unit sold. The PS5 will be sold at a similar margin and thinking removing the blue ray drive would allow them to lower the price by $50 is a really, really silly claim.

For what I would assume would be a 4k Blu-Ray drive, it's not silly at all.

[Tech614]

For what I would assume would be a 4k Blu-Ray drive, it's not silly at all.

You mean the drive the Xbox One S has and they can afford to sell that system as low as $180?

BREAKING THE BANK MY MAN!

http://technology.ihs.com/api/binary/582322 The UHD BR drive and the 2TD HDD COMBINED costed MS $88.50 in the One S. And this was in 2016. If you really think the 2 TB drive was only costing $38.50 I got some beach front property in arizona for you. I'll give you a hint on how much the HDD cost... The $500 GB model allowed them to drop the price by $100 while keeping all the same components. In other words the DR drive costed them jack shit.

Let alone how cheap it will be in 2020, to a company that owns a major stake in BR and doesn't need to pay licensing fees.

Even fucking humoring the idea that Sony could lower the price on the PS5 by $50 by simply removing the disc drive is bat shit insane. It costs nothing.

[Shinzai]

You mean the drive the Xbox One S has and they can afford to sell that system as low as $180?

BREAKING THE BANK MY MAN!

http://technology.ihs.com/api/binary/582322 The UHD BR drive and the 2TD HDD COMBINED costed MS $88.50 in the One S. And this was in 2016. If you really think the 2 TB drive was only costing $38.50 I got some beach front property in arizona for you. I'll give you a hint on how much the HDD cost... The $500 GB model allowed them to drop the price by $100 while keeping all the same components. In other words the DR drive costed them jack shit.

Let alone how cheap it will be in 2020, to a company that owns a major stake in BR and doesn't need to pay licensing fees.

Even fucking humoring the idea that Sony could lower the price on the PS5 by $50 by simply removing the disc drive is bat shit insane. It costs nothing.

Well, considering I bought a 2TB SSHD Hybrid drive for $100 in 2013 at full price, and another one for $80 in 2015 and a 4TB regular HDD for $75... You tell me.



Anyway. Wasn't your original argument that there wasn't a viable digital market to support the sale of a driveless PS5?

[Witchblade77]

Most of my ps4 library is digital. The loss of a drive won’t really impact my experience. And if I can get it for cheaper than the standard(even when sales happen) I don’t see any reason to buy a system with a disc drive.

most of my library is digital as well. however - if i'm buying ps5, its going to mean that its replacing my ps4. i use my ps4 to watch my dvd collection among other things. and I do have SOME of my games in disk. most=/= all

I'm farily certain I'm far from unique and i'm fairly certain that sony is aware of that. i'm also fairly certain that sony has been watching and learning from xbox (since they have before ) and will weight minor cost reduction vs good will. which is why i have strong doubts that diskless ps5 is going to be a thing. maybe... MAYBE at the end of its life-cycle. but nowhere near at launch. at least IMO. disk drives are relatively inexpensive anyways.

[Tech614]

Anyway. Wasn't your original argument that there wasn't a viable digital market to support the sale of a driveless PS5?

This is a weak goal post shift from the guy claiming Sony can sell the PS5 at a $50 reduction by removing a BR drive.

We can sum this up as guy thinks Sony will do a disc less model because MS is doing it with a system that's in it's twilight years. Sony saving $50 on manufacturing by removing BR drive, lol.

Sony is totally going to make a system they can only sell for $10-15 cheaper just to appeal to a minority that want to buy a system with less features. /s

BTW the graph you leaked puts the 2 TD drive in the 2016 Xbox One S model at around $60 range. So if we're going off that the drive costed them sub $30 in 2016. Now once again, tell me what it's going to cost in 2020 to a company that doesn't have to pay licensing fees to BR. I guess somehow it magically ballooned in price to $50?!

[Shinzai]

This is a weak goal post shift from the guy claiming Sony can sell the PS5 at a $50 reduction by removing a BR drive.

It was literally your original argument. Which you seem to have abandoned?

We can sum this up as guy thinks Sony will do a disc less model because MS is doing it with a system that's in it's twilight years. Sony saving $50 on manufacturing by removing BR drive, lol.

Sony is totally going to make a system they can only sell for $10-15 cheaper just to appeal to a minority that want to buy a system with less features. /s

BTW the graph you leaked puts the 2 TD drive in the 2016 Xbox One S model at around $60 range. So if we're going off that the drive costed them sub $30 in 2016. Now once again, tell me what it's going to cost in 2020 to a company that doesn't have to pay licensing fees to BR. I guess somehow it magically ballooned in price to $50?!

Tell me how much a 4k Blu-Ray drive was at the same time.

[Witchblade77]

Most of my movies are digital as well. I've stopped buying discs almost entirely.

good for you, I guess? I have movies and tv series that date back years and years, and i don't plan on repurchasing them digitally any time soon, if ever.

the point is - there are enough people like me to make them stop and consider if coming up with diskless system at launch is worth it. are they going to save enough money if at all on it

[Witchblade77]

It's not about saving money, it's about making more money thanks to widening your market.

which is why its better if they have the disk IN there. I'm not sure just how much of a price they can genuinely shave off by designing a separate system without disk.. while more and morep eople are switching to streaming, to digital - physical market is still far too large.

[Tech614]

It was literally your original argument. Which you seem to have abandoned?

Actually my entire argument has always been you can't back up your claims of it happening with any evidence which you never have. It is you that constantly try to goal post move which doesn't help your argument at all because literally all factors point to it being a waste of time for Sony at this time.

Tell me how much a 4k Blu-Ray drive was at the same time.

Your own graph proves it was sub $30, did you even read my post? Did you even read the BoM? It's almost like you're trying to be obtuse for the sake of it now to prolong an already dead argument.

It was sub $30 for a company that has to pay BR licensing fees in 2016, now tell me how much will it be for a company that has no licensing fees in 2020?! I WONDER?!

PROBABLY $50! /s

[Jtbrig7390]

All I want from the PS5 is to be able to play all my physical playstation games on one system....

Thankfully its starting to look like that will be the case.

[Shinzai]

Actually my entire argument has always been you can't back up your claims of it happening with any evidence which you never have. It is you that constantly try to goal post move which doesn't help your argument at all because literally all factors point to it being a waste of time for Sony at this time.

You syill haven't presented a single piece of evidence against it. Or are you still suggesting that Sony wouldn't be able to make money on a digital only device?

Your own graph proves it was sub $30, did you even read my post? Did you even read the BoM? It's almost like you're trying to be obtuse for the sake of it now to prolong an already dead argument.

It was sub $30 for a company that has to pay BR licensing fees in 2016, now tell me how much will it be for a company that has no licensing fees in 2016?! I WONDER?!

PROBABLY $50! /s

... Since when did Blu Ray drives have their cost valued in gigabytes? Lol.

[Tech614]

Since when did Blu Ray drives have their cost valued in gigabytes? Lol.

Not sure how you're having trouble following this but BoM listed the HDD and BRD at a combined cost of $88.50. Therefor you can simply use your own graph and simple math to get the price range of the drive itself. Surely you can do basic subtraction?

"lol" indeed. With that, we're done with this conversation.

[Shinzai]

Not sure how you're having trouble following this but BoM listed the HDD and BRD at a combined cost of $88.50. Therefor you can simply use your own graph and simple math to get the price range of the drive itself. Surely you can do basic subtraction?

"lol" indeed. With that, we're done with this conversation.

Yeah, because the hdd will have been $15-20 cost.

Im sure you can figure the rest out yourself.

Sorry you lost.

[Blade Wolf]

All I want from the PS5 is to be able to play all my physical playstation games on one system....

Thankfully its starting to look like that will be the case.

have they said anything about the PS3 games?

[Witchblade77]

Again. There’s no design necessary. And how would having only a disc version widen their market more than offering multiple options at different pricepoints? You’re literally making zero sense.

becasue I'm not convinced they are going to be saving much by offering disk-less version at lower price point. I don't think they are going to be able to lower it all that much to begin with. and they will have to have to separate manufacture streams for it at least for part of the process, even if they go with xbox version of - its just a different panel at the front. their selling point is - its ps4 backwards compatible. why... why would they bother with diskless version at least at launch. it makes zero sense for the to do it.

[Tech614]

Again, it’s not about saving shit. It’s about selling systems to people who aren’t willing to pay for the full priced disc drive system. That’s called expanding your install base so that you have a wider audience to sell games to. Which is all they care about at launch. These companies haven’t really profited from a new console in decades. They profit from the games.

They didn't sell PS4/XBO at a profit at launch but they also didn't sell them at a loss. They sold them at cost. Meaning the removal of a disk drive is not going to lower the price in a meaningful way, and maybe not at all if you factor in needed separate production lines for it.

Sony is not going to eat a loss on a diskless version while selling a disk version at cost. Both would be sold at cost, and both would be roughly the same price making it a pretty pointless endeavor.

[Tech614]

Except that’s just not true. They sold them at a loss because retail isn’t the same as wholesale. And if there’s a $50 difference they will likely do it. Much as they did with the PS3.

They sold them at cost. Retailers don't make much on game consoles, which is why accessories are always over priced, which is why every retailers tries to push attachments with console sales. $381 to make a PS4 at launch sony was not eating a loss on them, retailers where probably lucky if they where making $15 per console sold, and sony ain't paying much to ship them when they're coming in on freight boats by the 1000s with super slow shipping.

I still don't get how you guys keep randomly thinking the removal of a disc drive that will probably cost Sony $10-15 per console is going to lower the price by $50. That is like some amazing made up feel craft going on in your head.

Edit and if you need clarification on how retailers work for game consoles here is a good read for you- https://nintendosoup.com/much-money-...me-store-make/

[Jtbrig7390]

Sony was eating a loss. This is well known and was reported at the time. If I'm remembering correctly it was around $50 a unit. My point wasn't that retail was making a ton of money off of them, it was that Sony wasn't selling them at $400 a pop.

Your remembering wrong....

Feel free to link some proof saying different.

[Zenfoldor]

All I want from the PS5 is to be able to play all my physical playstation games on one system....

Thankfully its starting to look like that will be the case.

Yes, at this point, Sony has me hyped for BC. I think I would be very disappointed if I couldn't play both my physical and digital PS4 games on the PS5.

[Witchblade77]

Again, it’s not about saving shit. It’s about selling systems to people who aren’t willing to pay for the full priced disc drive system. That’s called expanding your install base so that you have a wider audience to sell games to. Which is all they care about at launch. These companies haven’t really profited from a new console in decades. They profit from the games.

And I have a shit ton of digital ps4 games. Why would I care about a disc drive? They clearly don’t as the load times they’re focusing on, and bragging about, are entirely related to loading off the ssd. Not a disc.

you are assuming that savings are going to be considerable enough for the consumer to be worth it? and loading times are part of the selling point yes (and its not like ps4 games load of disk anyways, disk is really more of a drm at this point, as the entire game is installed onto a harddrive off disk even right now), but the other selling point is backwards compatibility. which includes being able to do everything that ps4 does - on ps5.

that said... as long as they don't go full diskless? i don't care. if I'm wrong and they have 2 different systems at launch? then i'm wrong /shrug. I just don't thik they will is all.