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  1. #561
    Players were not as experienced back then.

    When dungeons first came out they were chaotic 'class raids' where you'd take one of each class along so they could each get their dungeon loot. But then they locked most of the down to just 5 players.

    I remember when I first saw a hunter use traps and pulling - it was a revelation.

    Towards the end of classic one of the quests to upgrade your dungeon tier was a Stratholme speed run, the forerunner to challenge mode and mythic+. All things that have basically trained us to be better in 5 mans.. I'd be shocked if dungeons didn't feel easier.

  2. #562
    Quote Originally Posted by Hubbl3 View Post
    And then when BWL is cleared within 1 day after release. And so on.
    On pservers, every single newly-released raid gets cleared within 5-6 hours. Yes, including Naxx.

    15 year old game, people. Everyone knows every raid inside and out, and the no-life-neet-hardcores will clear shit day 1.

  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    In other news classic WoW was actually easy and it was just the players that where bad at the time.

    Friendly reminder that when WoW originally launched it was actually the most casual and easy MMO on the market and that's how it gained mass appeal and separated itself from the pack in the first place.

    It's almost like people have been telling you for years there was nothing hard about it, it just lacked QoL features that would be added later. Classic was easier then retail currently is(and probably every xpac for that matter), it just didn't respect your time at all.
    preach it brother, this can't be stated enough, it boggles my mind that people are still so deluded that they think stuff was hard due to the 'rose tinted goggles' effect.

  4. #564
    I dont get the "We're just better now" bit.

    Vanillas skill ceiling is so low that what are you getting better at?
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  5. #565
    People are so used to M+ now that Classic dungeons seem way easier than they were.
    “He who only speaks in quotes often forgets to think for himself." - Anais
    "In Texas, don't bring a paintball gun to a real gun fight." - Me

  6. #566
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnedge View Post
    People are so used to M+ now that Classic dungeons seem way easier than they were.
    They were always easy. Even my dumb 13 year old self blasted through the dungeons easily. There were like, half a a dozen level cap or near level cap dungeons that could be called hard, and even then it was more a case of poor balance or just plain length than actual difficulty.

    Classic was never hard. Even back then they commented on how the only difficult part of raids was getting people to raid. What it was, was longer. Full stop.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  7. #567
    Lol people actually think difficulty is just about scripted boss mechanics. Retailers think if there are more mechanics listed in the Adventure Guide it must be harder.

    In Classic the world is actually dangerous, you aren't invincible, that's the big difference. Just getting to a dungeon can be a challenge.

    And so far all we've seen is lower level dungeons, which although not difficult are still more of a challenge than retail (there is a risk of wiping at least).

    Why on earth are you comparing level 20 dungeons to Mythic+, that's straight up retarded.

    I think I trust Venruki, one of the greatest Mages in the game of all time, when he says that the difficulty feels much more rewarding in Classic, over a bunch of retail babbies who have thousands of posts and think that the garbage of BfA is good game design.
    Last edited by WowClassic; 2019-05-25 at 01:05 PM.

  8. #568
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    They were always easy. Even my dumb 13 year old self blasted through the dungeons easily. There were like, half a a dozen level cap or near level cap dungeons that could be called hard, and even then it was more a case of poor balance or just plain length than actual difficulty.

    Classic was never hard. Even back then they commented on how the only difficult part of raids was getting people to raid. What it was, was longer. Full stop.
    Never said they weren't easy. Said they seem even easier.

    Not to mention the leveling has been capped at 30 so people are having an even easierier time with them as they get decked out in BiS.

    If you play golf enough, it's going to get easier as you get better. People playing harder dungeons since TBC came out are going to be even better at dungeons than they were in vanilla, really fogging up the nostalgia.
    Last edited by Carnedge; 2019-05-25 at 01:06 PM.
    “He who only speaks in quotes often forgets to think for himself." - Anais
    "In Texas, don't bring a paintball gun to a real gun fight." - Me

  9. #569
    I played Cataclysm launch HC dungeons. No dungeons are ever gonna be hard for me again. That was such a shitfest back then.

    What i remember about vanilla dungeons is that i was permanently confused and never knew where to go and that they took so long - but difficult? Not really.

  10. #570
    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post
    Lol people actually think difficulty is just about scripted boss mechanics. Retailers think if there are more mechanics listed in the Adventure Guide it must be harder.

    In Classic the world is actually dangerous, you aren't invincible, that's the big difference. Just getting to a dungeon can be a challenge.

    And so far all we've seen is lower level dungeons, which although not difficult are still more of a challenge than retail (there is a risk of wiping at least).

    Why on earth are you comparing level 20 dungeons to Mythic+, that's straight up retarded.

    I think I trust Venruki, one of the greatest Mages in the game of all time, when he says that the difficulty feels much more rewarding in Classic, over a bunch of retail babbies who have thousands of posts and think that the garbage of BfA is the way an MMO should be.
    The world really isnt that dangerous in vanilla WoW nor are that dungeons that hard to get to. They are TIMELY to get to yes. Like, Shadowfang isnt hard to get to for an Alliance character. It just takes a lot of time to get to.


    There are also a few examples of over tuned mobs (like the defias mages) as well as random elites (The worgen), however these are very big rarities and not indicative of the world as a whole. Honest question, have you yourself played vanilla?

    Hell, said mage is correct. Vanilla is more rewarding. But its because the gratification isnt instant, its more earned, but not in a difficulty sense. You arent automatically grouped with people, that adds value to grouping itself. You dont instantly enter a dungeon, which gives the world a greater sense of scale and immersion. The fights arent hard but they do last longer giving a stronger sense that you're really doing something major. Time is a major thing. Even if it is more difficult and mechanically involved, a 15 minute dead mines run won't be nearly as memorable as an hour long dead mines run.
    World needs more Goblin Warriors https://i.imgur.com/WKs8aJA.jpg

  11. #571
    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    The world really isnt that dangerous in vanilla WoW nor are that dungeons that hard to get to. They are TIMELY to get to yes. Like, Shadowfang isnt hard to get to for an Alliance character. It just takes a lot of time to get to.
    So I say something is more dangerous in Classic and your response is: "it's not that dangerous". Do you see how pointless that is? You might has well have rolled your face into the keyboard. It's dangerous enough to feel rewarding, that's all that matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Toppy View Post
    The world really isnt that dangerous in vanilla WoW nor are that dungeons that hard to get to. They are TIMELY to get to yes. Like, Shadowfang isnt hard to get to for an Alliance character. It just takes a lot of time to get to.

    Hell, said mage is correct. Vanilla is more rewarding. But its because the gratification isnt instant, its more earned, but not in a difficulty sense. You arent automatically grouped with people, that adds value to grouping itself. You dont instantly enter a dungeon, which gives the world a greater sense of scale and immersion. The fights arent hard but they do last longer giving a stronger sense that you're really doing something major. Time is a major thing. Even if it is more difficult and mechanically involved, a 15 minute dead mines run won't be nearly as memorable as an hour long dead mines run.
    Time investment is part of what makes up the difficulty of a challenge, if it wasn't then you'd have to argue that a grind that took a month of played time is easy to accomplish. It's not easy because humans have limited attention spans.

    And once again, we've only seen low level dungeons so far.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by WowClassic View Post
    So I say something is more dangerous in Classic and your response is: "it's not that dangerous". Do you see how pointless that is? You might has well have rolled your face into the keyboard. It's dangerous enough to feel rewarding, that's all that matters.



    Time investment is part of what makes up the difficulty of a challenge, if it wasn't then you'd have to argue that a grind that took a month of played time is easy to accomplish. It's not easy because humans have limited attention spans.

    And once again, we've only seen low level dungeons so far.
    you people have very strange definition of dangerous.

    dangerous is mobs suddenly jumping on you from all over the place and other surprise elements.

    dragging mobs one by one because your mana regen sucks is not dangerous its tedious and boring.

    game is not dangerous because world is dangerous - its just tedious because you have to sit and eat / drink all the time because regen sucks and there is retarded gcd on health/mana potions.

    vanilla is much closer to turn base rpg then any future implementations. because guess what before mmopgs turn based rpgs were a main branch of rpgs in pc/console gaming. hell with enough practice you can have more dynamic battles in FF7 or X then in vanilla -_-

  13. #573
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    you people have very strange definition of dangerous.

    dangerous is mobs suddenly jumping on you from all over the place and other surprise elements.

    dragging mobs one by one because your mana regen sucks is not dangerous its tedious and boring.

    game is not dangerous because world is dangerous - its just tedious because you have to sit and eat / drink all the time because regen sucks and there is retarded gcd on health/mana potions.

    vanilla is much closer to turn base rpg then any future implementations. because guess what before mmopgs turn based rpgs were a main branch of rpgs in pc/console gaming. hell with enough practice you can have more dynamic battles in FF7 or X then in vanilla -_-
    So just because you don't have infinite mana and health, and you can't spam health potions like you do in Diablo games the game is boring and tediuos?

    I'm so glad you don't design the games i like to play.

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by Carnedge View Post
    Never said they weren't easy. Said they seem even easier.

    Not to mention the leveling has been capped at 30 so people are having an even easierier time with them as they get decked out in BiS.

    If you play golf enough, it's going to get easier as you get better. People playing harder dungeons since TBC came out are going to be even better at dungeons than they were in vanilla, really fogging up the nostalgia.
    TBC like TBC - you are talking about people who brag all the time about doing mythic 15+ and how lol easy it is -_-

    what a shocker that they have no problem in leveling dungeons in vanilla -_-

    they ego is biting them in the ass thats all .

  15. #575
    Quote Originally Posted by hardtofin View Post
    What do you guys think about this?

    I played vanilla and definitely remember them being as hard if not harder than the levelling. The guys in the beta are reporting levelling being MUCH hard than private servers but dungeons being WAY easier. They are talking about the possibility there was a stealth nerf to dungeons in 1.12

    I hope this wasn't the case as easy dungeons will really suck in classic imo, what do you guys reckon?
    I take it you didn't play Vanilla then? Having to CC is not "hard".

  16. #576
    If you play a game for 10 to 15 years and go back and do the most basic form of it things are going to be very simple. Understanding of how things work and how that ripples to other aspects of play and your group is much higher than it was at all stages now. Your average beta tester is going to have a PhD level of understanding of things compared to your average vanilla player.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  17. #577
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kumorii View Post
    Classic was tideous, not hard.
    Well said. I think the Mandela Effect is causing people to have unrealistic views about the game. The point is not for the game to be hard, or brutal or whatever. the point is to be fun. So quit worrying & just play.

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by hardtofin View Post
    What do you guys think about this?

    I played vanilla and definitely remember them being as hard if not harder than the levelling. The guys in the beta are reporting levelling being MUCH hard than private servers but dungeons being WAY easier. They are talking about the possibility there was a stealth nerf to dungeons in 1.12

    I hope this wasn't the case as easy dungeons will really suck in classic imo, what do you guys reckon?
    Vanilla difficulty was 99% about people not having any idea how to really play the game. Hell, I'm pretty sure most people who played it had never touched a MMORPG before.

  19. #579
    You have to consider back then we had no idea what any of the boss's mechanics were or how to play our classes. Stick a bunch of people who have played classic private servers for a decade in there and the results are predictable.

  20. #580
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    You have to consider back then we had no idea what any of the boss's mechanics were or how to play our classes. Stick a bunch of people who have played classic private servers for a decade in there and the results are predictable.
    I just watched people wiping in wailing caverns. Just saying.

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