Mythic+ is terrible for the game

[Kokolums]

Kokolums is a fool who has no idea what he's talking about. M+ has reinvigorated the game.

There is absolutely ZERO metrics that suggest M+ has reinvigorated the game. Subs kept falling, popularity kept falling. It did nothing. Its pretty much accepted we're below WoD in terms of popularity and playerbase here.

[Voidwielder]

Huh? You have to do it if you want to get gear, it drops gear on par with heroic dazar'alor and is about on par with mythic dazar'alor in the chest items, better than dazar'alor if they titanforge. You have one shot per boss in the raid for gear while you can farm mythic plus infinitely for gear. It ruins the character gear progression totally.

That is an entirely separate issue. Itemization is fucked no matter how you twist and turn it. The addition of M+ loot cache only made it worse, but it did not cause it.
I have always thought and would agree that the only people who should get Mythic-level gear from M+ are the one's who push the highest keys consistently - bumping the key required for that every few weeks would be an easy fix.

The rest should be content with HC raid gear.

[Katie N]

That is an entirely separate issue. Itemization is fucked no matter how you twist and turn it. The addition of M+ loot cache only made it worse, but it did not cause it.
I have always thought and would agree that the only people who should get Mythic-level gear from M+ are the one's who push the highest keys consistently - bumping the key required for that every few weeks would be an easy fix.

The rest should be content with HC raid gear.

Hahaha, no. That's even worse system. Nobody wanted to play higher keys with me because I'm a holy priest. They all wanted resto druids.

[Voidwielder]

Mythic plus requires you to have a schedule as well. I've failed countless of runs because I've had to go AFK because of my daughter. I have to plan to play when she's not home if I'm going to do mythic plus. In raids, I could just say I'll be brb 5 min and come back without a timer failing.

It takes far less preparation and organization to do a M+ run, which at it's longest will take 35 minutes now. If someone has to go, it keeps just 4 other people waiting.
Raiding often requires people present for an hour or more before an official break timer is up. You are lucky to be in a guild where +15 more people will tolerate you BRBing for 5 minutes. In most guilds, that's an instant bench.

You know this. You are playing obtuse.

[Katie N]

It takes far less preparation and organization to do a M+ run, which at it's longest will take 35 minutes now. If someone has to go, it keeps just 4 other people waiting.
Raiding often requires people present for an hour or more before an official break timer is up. You are lucky to be in a guild where +15 more people will tolerate you BRBing for 5 minutes. In most guilds, that's an instant bench.

You know this. You are playing obtuse.

I've never been in any guild that's intolerant of peoples real life. All guilds I've been in have been understanding for people who have kids. I wouldn't join a guild that won't tolerate that people have a life outside of the game.

[Voidwielder]

There is absolutely ZERO metrics that suggest M+ has reinvigorated the game. Subs kept falling, popularity kept falling. It did nothing. Its pretty much accepted we're below WoD in terms of popularity and playerbase here.

Reinvogoration=/regeneration.

It certainly give it an adrenaline kick, evident by the relatively high view count that MDI brings and also the in-game casual community has something to do. I do 4-10's regularly and I see them trying their best to time those keys. Those are the LFR heroes, playing the game which they otherwise would have either left or would AFK.

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I've never been in any guild that's intolerant of peoples real life. All guilds I've been in have been understanding for people who have kids. I wouldn't join a guild that won't tolerate that people have a life outside of the game.

Nice (strawman) try, I see through you.

[Katie N]

Nice (strawman) try, I see through you.

That's not a strawman. You should learn what strawman is. Just because you play with elitists who think you should give your life to the game doesn't mean everyone else does too.

[Voidwielder]

Hahaha, no. That's even worse system. Nobody wanted to play higher keys with me because I'm a holy priest. They all wanted resto druids.

I also main Holy Priest. I have no problem with being declined to high M+ runs. That's how it goes. Mythic raiding guilds who are aiming for high realm rankings (that in my opinion is the only metric that matters) won't take sub-meta specs either and you know this.

My point still stands. You complain about highest M+ requirement rewarding Mythic level loot but you are not willing to accept the reality that many other people are also not eligible for Mythic level loot, their choice of class and spec one of them.
I see through you.

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That's not a strawman. You should learn what strawman is. Just because you play with elitists who think you should give your life to the game doesn't mean everyone else does too.

I don't play with elitists. My main RIO on Holy is 1.4k, all earned through pugs.

[Katie N]

I don't play with elitists.

Yes, you do.

[Voidwielder]

Only problem with M+ is it overlaps too much with raiding, if they could separate the two out (make m+ gear better for m+ and raiding gear better for raiding) it would be 100x better.

That was the case in Legion before they decided to destroy Tier sets. Argus tier sets were so strong that without them you had no business pushing highest keys. They should bring that back. That's when raiding still had an incentive and was relatively above M+ in terms of rewards (few trinkets don't count).

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Yes, you do.

Now you're a psychic as well.
Pft, get lost.

[Jester Joe]

I hated healing m+ before finding a group to run with as pugs were ass lol. I like it too and think it's added a lot of depth to the game.

That's why I refuse to tank or heal pug keys.

I know I can do it, but it's not worth it unless I have at least one or two friends.

I'll pug as DPS all day though, no problem with that because it's far easier for people to look at a meter and go "Oh they're doing damage" than it is for people to appreciate what a tank does, or even a healer.

[Katie N]

Now you're a psychic as well.
Pft, get lost.

No, I just read what you type. Normal people don't do what you said people do, elitists do. You also don't main a holy priest, you've made a thread to state that you won't play holy. I wonder why you won't play holy? Is it because it's shit in mythic plus and won't get you invites?

[Voidwielder]

I hated healing m+ before finding a group to run with as pugs were ass lol. I like it too and think it's added a lot of depth to the game.

I run M+ pugs as a healer because I know that sometimes I'll get decent runs, sometimes it'll be a torture. I exert myself. To each his own.

I think we both agree that it gives us a reason to play. I would have quit a long time ago. As would countless others.

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No, I just read what you type. Normal people don't do what you said people do, elitists do. You also don't main a holy priest, you've made a thread to state that you won't play holy. I wonder why you won't play holy? Is it because it's shit in mythic plus and won't get you invites?

This is my main.

Seriously, get lost. You're a fool and you've demonstrated that plenty of times already.

[Katie N]

This is my main.

Seriously, get lost. You're a fool and you've demonstrated that plenty of times already.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9-Healer-for-M

Hello. I've played Holy Priest since the release of BfA, mostly in M+ as it's the only thing I've cared for in the past two expansions but now I'm going back to Shadow. Healing is something I've fallen in love with so I want to have a character specifically for that. However, I unsubbed quite some time ago but I'm coming back. Which class do I pick? I will never dual-spec on that character. I also have no interest in playing Resto Druid or a Monk (I play BrM only), the game play and the style simply does not appeal to me.

I only go by what you have stated yourself.

[Voidwielder]

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9-Healer-for-M
I only go by what you have stated yourself.

Yeah, plans have changed. I won't level another healer, I'll stay Holy.
Care to bring out some other posts, Mr. Psychic?

Congratulations though, you baited me in to a discussion which has no relevance to whether M+ is good or bad for the game.

P.S. If you are not invited in to high M+ keys, it's because you suck at Holy, not because the spec sucks. If you want to be in the Top 100 bracket, adapt to meta. It has always been that way.

[Spike`]

without m+ i wouldn't have a sub, the same with my friend

we dont even raid now and we were totally raid players since me BC, him vanilla

since Legion Suramar that we stopped playing raid, m+ is alot more fun even with the worst pugs that for me is the same has playing 3h a night wiping on a boss because of 1-x players doing f.ups

[grexly75]

An MMO lives or dies on its in-game social community. M+ actively works against the formation of a social community. That's the bottom line. M+ needs to go.

If M+ was such a great feature, subs would at least be increasing since its implementation. They aren't. Set aside your biases, it sucks. People don't want it. They continue to leave the game instead. It doesn't hook them.

I have to laugh how you blame one aspect of the game for subs going down, when it has been stated that subs started going downhill after WoTLK, took a nose dive in early Cataclysm and has not been the same ever since..

Also I don't see how you can be blaming a single dungeon mode creating an antisocial community.. When I would say that LFD that was implemented during WoTLK would be more than likely the cause of this "antisocial community"..

For when you look at it if you are saying that a single dungeon mode is the cause of this phenomena, then all dungeon modes would be equally as guilty of contributing to this so called "antisocial community" phenomena.. Or maybe it is that people have changed in the time that the game has been running and are not as social as they once used to be..

[Voidwielder]

m+ is alot more fun even with the worst pugs that for me is the same has playing 3h a night wiping on a boss because of 1-x players doing f.ups

Same. I did raid Mythic in Nighthold but Argus is what killed it for me. I have no patience or time to wipe for an hour or more because some idiot could not dodge Kin beams. For M+ I pick 4 people based on score and feeling and usually it's done in 45 minutes, travel time and R checks counted in.
Neat and efficient.

[Katie N]

without m+ i wouldn't have a sub, the same with my friend

we dont even raid now and we were totally raid players since me BC, him vanilla

since Legion Suramar that we stopped playing raid, m+ is alot more fun even with the worst pugs that for me is the same has playing 3h a night wiping on a boss because of 1-x players doing f.ups

With mythic plus, I won't play BFA nor will my friends. It's a horrible system, you can't play or bring whatever class you want to. My friend played a guardian druid but he stopped playing because they're so shit to tank with, healing a brewmaster monk is like 10 times easier than healing a guardian druid. The guardian druid takes insane amounts of damage compared to a monk and has more trouble with threat than the brewmaster even at same skill level. Playing holy priest, people don't invite me to any higher keys because they want a resto druid. If I play dps, I don't get any invites either because they don't want a shadow priest.

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P.S. If you are not invited in to high M+ keys, it's because you suck at Holy, not because the spec sucks. If you want to be in the Top 100 bracket, adapt to meta. It has always been that way.

Nope. It's because holy sucks compared to the other healers, especially compared to resto druids. I've played both, resto druid is far easier than a holy priest to do mythic plus with and you can contribute more damage than a holy priest as well. I've also played mistweaver and it's far easier than holy priest as well.

[grexly75]

There is absolutely ZERO metrics that suggest M+ has reinvigorated the game. Subs kept falling, popularity kept falling. It did nothing. Its pretty much accepted we're below WoD in terms of popularity and playerbase here.

And you have zero proof to say otherwise that M+ is the cause, maybe just maybe it is a whole lot of mitigating factors that are leading to subs going down.. To say that one factor of the game is the main cause without proof to say that it is, is just talking BS..