Why are people bad at wow/raiding.

[MidnyteTV]

Once you get into the mid raid heroic bosses, having good hand eye coordination and the ability to think fast and react is key. Some people are just not skilled. They cant react quickly when a nechanic comes out. They have a fundamental misunderstanding of their class. Or theyre just slow to react.

[Otimus]

Wow. Game has been badly designed since 2004 then. Or maybe what you consider bad design is just the design.

WoW's been out for 15 years and it only got more accessible with every expansion. There are more opportunities now to get good at something than there ever was before. As far as PvE we have 4 raid difficulties, infinite M+. If someone wants to engage in one given difficulty level they have every possiblity to do so.

Most of the difficulty whiners are just that, whiners. You don't take them seriously. These people don't have the will to improve. You can't cater to them when it comes to difficult group content.
I did Uldir HC back then with some social guilds (I have already pugged all of it many times before) just for the fun of it. This was progress raid for them. They had randomly selected talents + randomly selected azerite traits, they chose them by talking to each other not by looking up anything on the net. I tried to suggest them to look up things but they didn't care. They never got curved as a guild as far as I know.

Point is, you can't balance difficult content around people who don't care. BoD HC is easy if you learn the mechanics, yet I still see people who don't know what to do on the first few bosses.

Raiding is not something that Blizz can just force people to do. I'm very eager to hear what your idea of "training ppl ingame" would be like. Especially at lv60. Cuz in reality the moment you force casuals and otherwise bad players to engage in difficult content they abandon the fck out of the game.
Imagine the Mage Tower challenge being mandatory for everyone to beat to go to Argus. People couldn't do that in Antorus gear, and it was balanced around ToS gear (And they were pretty easy, I only didn't manage to do them with 2 classes cuz no max level).

Leveling was always easy.
Questing was always easy.
What else is there except m+ and raids?

I just think mechanics should be required to progress the leveling experience is all. You should be able to get some idea of how the game's combat actually functions out of the game by the time you're far into the process. As of now, you pretty much won't until you go into a raid or Mythic+.

Like.. I don't even think it's a matter of difficulty so much as it is a lack of... like... anything. You can do that stuff and it not even be hard. Right now, WoW is like Super Mario Bros, but every level is 1-1, but you can beat it without jumping. Without doing much outside of the basic functions, and the endgame is like going directly to the very last level.

The entire leveling process is mostly treated like something that has to be gotten out of the way because it's supposed to be there. It's a real missed opportunity.

Easiest way to start to do it would be to not make content worthless as you level. But they'd never do that. They won't even stop from making content worthless in it's own expansion, let alone anything that's really old. Most everything else besides that is inherent to the design of the game, and you pretty much can't change without having some crazy wild ramifications to everything else (at which point, it's honestly kind of too late. At this point, you probably know if you're going to like how WoW functions or not, and are ready to deal with it in your own way.)

Personally, I think you should be required to group up at certain points while leveling to effectively progress. (Whereas, as the game functions now, grouping up is very detrimental to leveling) There just shouldn't be such a huge gulf in how the bulk of the game functions pre-endgame, and at endgame. Or, if there is, there should at least be things that ease people into that change. Or at least those left behind should be given some sort of progression alternative that isn't grinding on alts or whatever. It's, frankly, a pretty weird design. Do other MMO's do that too? I've honestly never played any other MMO's at length besides WoW. But the way WoW functions seems counter to pretty much how any other kind of game I've ever played otherwise functions. It's like there's this weird disconnect in how lower skilled players play the game, how hardcore players play the game, what those two groups think the game is supposed to play like, how it actually plays, what Blizzard thinks these players should play like, and how everything/everyone actually is working in tandem.

[dacoolist]

tell her t ofuk off from raids or harder content then

Did you really just necro a 13 month old post?

On Topic: People suck at playing a video game - go play fortnite: where you even win when you lose

[Dakara]

People have forgotten what it’s like to be a new player.
So many WOW resources we take for granted most new players don’t even know exist, like wago.
The difficulty curve is completely messed up right now. People can outgear Mythics below +8-10 solo then find they have no .io score (or ability) to do the content that actually gives them upgrades.

There is so much “extra” involved to play WOW at a non-welfare level many new or returning players are simply put off by it. Those already consumed by WOW don’t see it as a big deal because they’re used to it. Oh, we have to sim Azerite Traits now as well as gear and talents? No biggie, I’ll just add it onto the list.

WOW lost it’s RPG element years ago, it’s now become a game of Simcraft, add ons, macros and io scores. However, it’s still technically an MMORPG and there are plenty of players who have never visited a forum site or class resource page and just want to play the game.

[jiih]

because many people just dont care because its a freaking game? if you want to good at wow you need a lot of time nothing else. the game is easy itself. its only about remembering cooldowns,rotations and what every boss/trash/arenacomposition does. HECK even when i returned in bfa s1 and grinded my glad arena meanwhile got dumbed down to a simple scripted shitfiesta.

but to do this you need to do a boss/dungeon a couple of time which requires simply timeinvestement.

But because the game itself is easy and just time consuming lot of people who play a lot cant understand why others who invest less time are simple bad/worse at the game.

every high end mythic raider or r1/top arena player nolifed at one point or another atleast during his wow career to get there. everyone who denies is just lying.

ps: playing every day for a couple of hours is already a lot more than average ;-)

but you know whats worse than people who are "bad"? people who think they are something better because they play the same game for 10years daily for hours and think they are special :-D

[Jester Joe]

I just think mechanics should be required to progress the leveling experience is all. You should be able to get some idea of how the game's combat actually functions out of the game by the time you're far into the process. As of now, you pretty much won't until you go into a raid or Mythic+.

Like.. I don't even think it's a matter of difficulty so much as it is a lack of... like... anything. You can do that stuff and it not even be hard. Right now, WoW is like Super Mario Bros, but every level is 1-1, but you can beat it without jumping. Without doing much outside of the basic functions, and the endgame is like going directly to the very last level.

You say this, yet Monks and Demon Hunters have built in tutorials on their moves that are pretty core to their level experiencing (Monks for their 50% extra exp gain, and DHs for their starting zone which literally teaches you every move as you go along) and yet there are still monks and demon hunters who just don't know how to interrupt despite that.

Also Blizzard did have the mandatory proving ground silver for heroic dungeons in WoD and ultimately it was reverted because it was pretty pointless in the end.

It annoyed people who knew what they were doing, and those who didn't still just didn't bother to learn more.

You want to blame Blizzard but it's not Blizzard's fault people don't want to bother to learn what to interrupt, what mobs are stunnable, what utility can be used where and how.

[asil]

My gf doesn't want to read up on things because she doesn't want other people telling her how to play, instead she plays the way she wants even if it's not optimal but she's also having more fun that way.

I don't really understand this logic. How is it more fun to be worse at the game, when playing correctly takes very little effort?

[temple1906]

I don't really understand this logic. How is it more fun to be worse at the game, when playing correctly takes very little effort?

Because she has an untreated mental illness.

[MidnyteTV]

The problem is since logs and epeen and rader io, its basically a dick-waving contest. Nobody wants to play the game mechanically, they just want ot do DPS. I had this problem from WoD through Legion. Players chose to chase meters and die than kill the boss.

[Kalivox]

It's funny how easily people who have been gaming for years forget that having the coordination just to even use your keyboard and mouse in conjunction to move and attack at the same time is a relatively advanced and difficult skill for the vast majority of adults who aren't used to gaming, and WoW attracts a lot of non-gamers and casual players who aren't nearly as advanced as all that.

When my Dad plays WoW, he will have to stop moving, look down at the keyboard and find his number keys in order to start hitting his keybindings, and he spends most of the time looking at the keyboard to make sure he's hitting the right keys. He's just got no experience playing PC games and doesn't have the hand-eye coordination or muscle memory to use both his mouse AND keyboard at the same time while also being able to look at the screen, be aware of his position AND on top of that have the headspace to memorize mechanics and pay attention to the timers and announcements on a boss mod. He's cleared LFR playing like this, but he would never get anywhere in Heroic. It's not like he doesn't try, but he would need a lot of practice and time but due to work and other commitments he only plays for like 2-3 hours one evening a week.

It's easy to forget when you're a 16-25 year old gamer that not everyone is on the same natural level as you are, and things that seem "easy" for you are long established skills you picked up with time.

I kind of have to second this. I got my mom into WoW back in wotlk and she's played pretty much every day (she just works / comes home and hops on the computer.) That's 10 years of playing atleast 15+ hours a week and I still can't get her to keybind more than 5 spells. I really think computers in general (let alone playing video games) have an age cutoff at a certain point.

[temple1906]

I kind of have to second this. I got my mom into WoW back in wotlk and she's played pretty much every day (she just works / comes home and hops on the computer.) That's 10 years of playing atleast 15+ hours a week and I still can't get her to keybind more than 5 spells. I really think computers in general (let alone playing video games) have an age cutoff at a certain point.

No, it's just that people either don't understand or care that not doing the fundamentals of the game negatively impacts the other people in their groups. If they just do solo content it doesn't matter but a lot of the "bad" players not only do group content they demand access to it.

[Dakara]

I don't really understand this logic. How is it more fun to be worse at the game, when playing correctly takes very little effort?

Depending on the situation, it can be more fun.

Talents for example. The "optimum" spec for some classes can be quite bland and boring, while the "fun" talents are sub-optimal.

[Otimus]

You say this, yet Monks and Demon Hunters have built in tutorials on their moves that are pretty core to their level experiencing (Monks for their 50% extra exp gain, and DHs for their starting zone which literally teaches you every move as you go along) and yet there are still monks and demon hunters who just don't know how to interrupt despite that.

Also Blizzard did have the mandatory proving ground silver for heroic dungeons in WoD and ultimately it was reverted because it was pretty pointless in the end.

It annoyed people who knew what they were doing, and those who didn't still just didn't bother to learn more.

You want to blame Blizzard but it's not Blizzard's fault people don't want to bother to learn what to interrupt, what mobs are stunnable, what utility can be used where and how.

I'm saying it's kind of absurd that none of this is really needed before you're at whatever the current level cap is at any given time. That is absolutely Blizzard's fault. It's not ALL Blizzard's fault that people don't want to learn if they want to do endgame stuff, but it is 100% their fault for creating the environment where learning anything isn't necessary until the end of the game.

[potis]

I'm saying it's kind of absurd that none of this is really needed before you're at whatever the current level cap is at any given time. That is absolutely Blizzard's fault. It's not ALL Blizzard's fault that people don't want to learn if they want to do endgame stuff, but it is 100% their fault for creating the environment where learning anything isn't necessary until the end of the game.

This was answered after Cataclysm by the Lead Designer, aka Ghostcrawler back then after they did some research.

"The majority of WoW does not learn, if they get blocked by something that requires them to learn something to progress they prefer to stop playing".

It wasnt the exact words but it boils down to that.

Hence why LFR was created and why it was expanded upon.

Then they evolved it even more by adding "mandatory" chase things, like points at the completion, a few expansions back, rare mounts now etc, to make the better players participate and carry the "I dont want to get better" crowd.

[Otimus]

This was answered after Cataclysm by the Lead Designer, aka Ghostcrawler back then after they did some research.

"The majority of WoW does not learn, if they get blocked by something that requires them to learn something to progress they prefer to stop playing".

It wasnt the exact words but it boils down to that.

Hence why LFR was created and why it was expanded upon.

Then they evolved it even more by adding "mandatory" chase things, like points at the completion, a few expansions back, rare mounts now etc, to make the better players participate and carry the "I dont want to get better" crowd.

But has there ever been anything that seriously demanded players to "learn" outside of the "end", like, in the history of WoW? To me, that's always been the real problem. You can't give people cake all day, every day, then say "Earn your own cake!" Like, leveling in the early days was harder... but not actually hard or requiring of any real effort, mostly just time. Even Cata, most everything could be ignored until you got to the endgame, yet again.

[Itisamuh]

I don't really understand this logic. How is it more fun to be worse at the game, when playing correctly takes very little effort?

Believe it or not, some people could honestly not care less about meters, min maxing, or doing what guides tell them to do. Sometimes certain talents or other perks might be more fun, but less efficient, so they choose what feels more fun or works for their playstyle.

[Frolk]

Cause Blizzard decided it was best for everyone to hand out a F1 car to everyone who got to 110/120 and expect em to have a drivers licenses in the first place regardless if they have driven race cars for 5000 hours or got their license 1h ago.
Too easy for shitters to get good gear and they think they can auto hit their way to an completed +15 on time, but they get mad when they are told their "play style" is garbage.
We need stuff like Proving Grounds back, have one for every type of content ingame, to weed out the shitters.
(PG worked back planned in MoP, sadly they could still do LFR without it done)

[potis]

But has there ever been anything that seriously demanded players to "learn" outside of the "end", like, in the history of WoW? To me, that's always been the real problem. You can't give people cake all day, every day, then say "Earn your own cake!" Like, leveling in the early days was harder... but not actually hard or requiring of any real effort, mostly just time. Even Cata, most everything could be ignored until you got to the endgame, yet again.

Well yes, people did learn, but very slowly.

Blizzard just sped up a few things by allowing catching up mechanics, which in the end bit them in the ass.

The masses dont know better, the casuals didnt know better, but suddenly there it was, content that you could do in a few hours and with some luck, that skipped 1 year of the expansion (The Icecrown dungeons in WOTLK).

Not everyone plays at the same level, what i will do in 10mins cause its a joke, its 2 hours for someone else, and 10 hours for someone else, everyone plays differently and at different skill levels.

Knowledge comes into play also, as i hate having downtime as i have other things to do, but i also wanna play WoW, and you have someone else that logs on for 2 hours a week and suddenly decides he is gonna herb, right as the new patch hit and there are 2 areas to explore and farm, he decides to herb, his choice but you get the point.

But then they failed again by taking too long to release Cataclysm cause remaking Azeroth and the masses caught up, its an endless cycle after that of self-gratification.

When you start something, you cant simply cut it off.

All those masses that didnt know better, were very slowly progressing into the game, but learning cause they had too, not all but some did, then the whole catch up stuff started and they didnt have to learn 150 mechanics from previous tier, just the active one, and not everything.

Etc etc..Why do you think its a trend on these forums how everyone is "So smart, i will sub at patch 9.3 and simply farm everything with freebie 500 ilvl gear lol".

Generally, people are bad at the game, down right horrible, and the worst part, they dont even know what they are playing, they dont understand they are playing a raiding simulator, but somehow because it took them 3000 hours to do what others do in 300h, they believe thats the correct way.

Now Blizzard has allowed them to also take 300h to do stuff, if they sub 1 year after..You get the point i hope

[munkeyinorbit]

This thread is hilarious. You can tell who the bad players are and who the bad players with shitty attitudes. Some girl just wants to play the game and do her own thing?

Omg she is ruining the game for me. How dare she decide fun is more important than parses!
Do you know who is complaining? Bad players. If you keep finding yourself bad pugs then you are a bad player. Good players play with good players. Bad with bad. It is a fact and the sooner you realise this the happier you will be.

[Elkfingers]

Believe it or not, some people could honestly not care less about meters, min maxing, or doing what guides tell them to do. Sometimes certain talents or other perks might be more fun, but less efficient, so they choose what feels more fun or works for their playstyle.

Totally fine, but if that's the case then they should explain the situation to people before they join groups for M+ or pug raids, because that's basically the same as saying "I'm doing whatever I feel like doing, even if it negatively affects what you're trying to do". If somebody's fun comes at the cost of my time being wasted, that's something I want to know up front.

If it's your own keystone or raid group and everybody involved knows that you're basically sabotaging your own odds of success for your own enjoyment, then nobody gets to complain. In literally every other situation, you're being incredibly selfish and deserve to get shit for it.