Everyone in the beta reporting that dungeons are REALLY easy :(

[Stickiler]

No it is you who have no clue. Presence of difficulty levels was never appealing. 1 difficulty for everyone. Thats how it should be. LFG, LFR is path of least restistance for majority of playerbase. So they finish it and quit gamel.

Sorry, but the 2.4million players who participate in running M+'s proves you wrong.

[precious]

No it is you who have no clue. Presence of difficulty levels was never appealing. 1 difficulty for everyone. Thats how it should be. LFG, LFR is path of least restistance for majority of playerbase. So they finish it and quit gamel. In Classic you do 1 difficulty and if you dont too bad you wont see content. And this is huge inciative to push yourself into that content. BFA have non of that. You can make excuses how bfa is harder becouse it has mythic +10. It doesnt matter becouse people just do easyest difficulty possible and quit. And no it isnt players problem. It is game desing what is flawed.

Mythic +10 should be 1 and only viable difficulty for dungeons and Mythic raiding should be 1 viable raid difficulty for everyone rest should not even exist in any shape or form.

So by this logic when MC is up and will be cleared in 30 mins u can quit classic and w8 for the next raid/stage which also will be cleared in one hour, since we beated the game at that point. So continuing you logic since it takes lfr to be fully cleared in aproxx 30-40 mins, its way harder than MC since its been cleared for years now in under 30 mins. To expand to your logic u can clear MC with 20 players but its impossible to do that in lfr cause of mechanics.

So the final conclusion is that lfr is harder than classic wow early raids?

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Sorry, but the 2.4million players who participate in running M+'s proves you wrong.

Its 2.4 unique and 3.7 mil overall on season 2 alone. Last weeks sample was 898k unique players that did above +10. If i count how many did all difficulties u will get vertigo. But since your logic game is dead and has less than 1 million subs ( your ppls words not mine) that means that 90% of player base does mythic plus. I agree 90% is the definition of noone does m+

Also the overall since launch is 9.4 mil timed and over 56 million not timed dungeons.

[ManiaCCC]

Sorry, but the 2.4million players who participate in running M+'s proves you wrong.

That's like whole wow playerbase..wow

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So by this logic when MC is up and will be cleared in 30 mins u can quit classic and w8 for the next raid/stage which also will be cleared in one hour, since we beated the game at that point. So continuing you logic since it takes lfr to be fully cleared in aproxx 30-40 mins, its way harder than MC since its been cleared for years now in under 30 mins. To expand to your logic u can clear MC with 20 players but its impossible to do that in lfr cause of mechanics.

By the time, I will clear MC, BWL will be on the way. Also people like me are just altholics, there is no chance in hell most people will be able to keep pace with releases.

Its 2.4 unique and 3.7 mil overall. Last weeks sample was 898k unique players that did above +10. If i count how many did all difficulties u will get vertigo. But since your logic game is dead and has less than 1 million subs ( your ppls words not mine) that means that 90% of player base does mythic plus. I agree 90% is the definition of noone does m+

It would be more interesting to see, why people actually left WoW. I have very limited sample size so it may means nothing in bigger picture but my friends quite because game just lack any meaningful goals, gearing is broken - it's aimless.

Maybe it's just coincidence, that many big streamers are saying same thing..but I know I know, noone cares what stramers says, they are stupid and their sheep just follow them..right? The only opinion, which matters are opinions of true fans of wow - who are farming M+ all day.

[precious]

That's like whole wow playerbase..wow

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By the time, I will clear MC, BWL will be on the way. Also people like me are just altholics, there is no chance in hell most people will be able to keep pace with releases.





It would be more interesting to see, why people actually left WoW. I have very limited sample size so it may means nothing in bigger picture but my friends quite because game just lack any meaningful goals, gearing is broken - it's aimless.

Maybe it's just coincidence, that many big streamers are saying same thing..but I know I know, noone cares what stramers says, they are stupid and their sheep just follow them..right? The only opinion, which matters are opinions of true fans of wow - who are farming M+ all day.

Define what u mean "ppl left wow. Ofc ppl will alway leave and come back to wow every patch. W eknow that for years now. Also me and other ppl are providing numbers that everyone can see. Its out there in the open. I can provide u numbers from warcraftlogs. Last week a bit less than 500k ppl raided BOD in hc or above difficulty. Thats unique players sicen as patreon u get ids of players and u can check unique entities.

The above does not include normal and ppl that dont run logs. Its very safe to assume that at least 600-700k ppl did the current raid last week. Everyone is saying that raiding pop is at best 10% of wow pop. Im not gonna assume that the game has 7 mil. Not even close and if i had to guess i would say around 3-3,5 at best.

But the logic the game has less than one mil and noone does any raids or m+ while we bring the damn numbers is beyond retarded. I can pull numbers out of my ass as well. Classic will peak at 2 mil and after 4 months only 99k ppl will play it. Here prove me wrong.

Back to the topic, stop confusing time consuming with hard. If u think spending 20 hours gathering mats just to enter a raid that will be cleared in an hour, and u think thats the epitomy of the word "hard" then i cant help u. Seek help. I really really really really really ( cant strech that enough ) hope classic will be succesful. I REALLY DO. We will make a guild after the next raid is cleared and jerk around in classic to have some fun. We already debating horde or alliance and its already a war in our discord ( in a good way ). So stop being so absolute on matters u dont know especially when u dont have the numbers to back up.

[Ragnarohk]

People had no clue what they were doing back then. Rogues with int rings. Casters with agility salves. people not going back and learning New ability levels. Etc.

I would love to see how vanilla players would have manage fights such as heroic mimiron, yogg+0, alysrazor, uunat, archimonde, helya, etc etc. Fights will real mechanics

Vanilla was "Hard" because it was time consuming. The skill needed in retail is far superior. You don't get bosses with 1-2 mechanics where you spam shadowbolt all fight long in retail.

You now need further more communication (mecatorque), spacial awearness (Maiden of virtue/flying in alysrazor), coordination (orb running ghuun), faster response (lich King defile and valkyrs), multitasking (blood council in ICC), mid fight desicion making (ooze kill order in Dragonsoul), 3D fights (Alakir), sub zones to clear (boats in maidens in BRF), vehicle fights (Malygos/Flame leviathan), limited resources fights (gongs in atramedes/mana in vezax) etc etc.

Vanilla was arrificially Hard (grinds for resist gear, mats, long down time between pulls)

Retail has depth and complexity. On top of that, you get to increased the difficulty of fights, with various fights having even more mechanics or extra phases in mythic)

And as far as dungeons. They have way more mechanics now. Added with affixes (that change the way you play, gear and spec on a weekly basis), multiple difficulty levels and a timer. Vanilla players would have never gotten past a mythic+3 as somebody else mentioned.

For somebody that likes endgame PvE content retail is the way to go. If you aren't satisfied with current raid and dungeon de signed then sure, play classic with its dumbed and watered down mechanics. I doubt a retail mythic skilled player will find vanilla content challenging and engaging at all

[ManiaCCC]

Define what u mean "ppl left wow.

That's easy, playing less people than years ago.

Back to the topic, stop confusing time consuming with hard. If u think spending 20 hours gathering mats just to enter a raid that will be cleared in an hour, and u think thats the epitomy of the word "hard" then i cant help u

I never said that. That's the problem guys, you don't understand the issue, so you will think of some stupid excuse, put it into mouth of people, who like Classic and dislike current WoW, so you have argument against.

[precious]

That's easy, playing less people than years ago.


I never said that. That's the problem guys, you don't understand the issue, so you will think of some stupid excuse, put it into mouth of people, who like Classic and dislike current WoW, so you have argument against.

Wasnt going towards u. Its a general statement. I should have made a diff post instead of quoting u.

[Aggrophobic]

Still waiting on those screenshots.

Yeah, I bet you are. I can't play from here without a VPN and even without one my ping would be silly bad so I've simply not logged in for a few. Sorry, mate.

[Elias01]

So by this logic when MC is up and will be cleared in 30 mins u can quit classic and w8 for the next raid/stage which also will be cleared in one hour, since we beated the game at that point. So continuing you logic since it takes lfr to be fully cleared in aproxx 30-40 mins, its way harder than MC since its been cleared for years now in under 30 mins. To expand to your logic u can clear MC with 20 players but its impossible to do that in lfr cause of mechanics.

So the final conclusion is that lfr is harder than classic wow early raids?

It wont take 30 minutes. You talking about 30 minut run where you have 40 fully geared players, with all buffs and everybody knows how to play. Get into this stage takes thousands of hours of gameplay and effort. It will be way longer than 30 minutes for majority of players. + Classic raids requare lot of preparation and organization while LFR requare only press 1 button. In LFR you can also ignore mechanics while in MC you cant. Yes it has less mechanics but you cant ignore them. Also MC is entry level raid it is supostu be easyest raid in classic. And yes you can clear LFR with 20 people becouse LFR is flex size just like normal and heroic.

Yes classic raids and dungeons are far more harder to finish than LFR. With LFR you press button you clear raid. You cant do that in classic.

You cant ignore all that pre raid preparation like it isnt part of raid difficulty. In classic it is part of what makes classic raids difficult. You can as you want that it is just time consuming. Well too bad becouse thats exactaly what mmropgs are about. Time + skill = effort and majority of players want exactly this type of experience. Slow steady and rewarding progression where everything matters.

I have 4 alts at retail and i havent step into single dungeon or raid above normal and LFR with them. They are all at 400+ itemlvl with finished all raids and dungeons. I havent socialize with anyone. I havent talk to anyone. I am not even in guild. Than go tryour stress test classic and i had social with people just to complete few quests.

[drbatman]

Everyone in beta is a seasoned player, its all streamers and F&F, people who are well versed at the game, playing in a coordinated 5 man

Yea I think deadmines might be easy in that situation.


This isnt 14 years ago, when just getting 4 other people in a group and to the instance was half the battle, let alone people have gear, or even proper gear, and furthermore knowing HOW to play



Did all the 'influences' think the 5 man dungeons were gonna be naxx level difficult lol

[Specialka]

Do not use the word hard to talk about vanilla. Tedious is the word you need.

[ManiaCCC]

Do not use the word hard to talk about vanilla. Tedious is the word you need.

So is current wow then.

[Specialka]

So is current wow then.

Since, in a current wow dungeon, any boss has more mecanics than any boss raid in vanilla. I do not think so.

[Grevmak]

Low level dungeons are easy for people who have years of Raiding experience.

More news at 12.

Seriously, Classic isn't THAT hard. It's slower, more strategic than "Pull then AoE spam" Mythic+ style, but leveling in Classic definetly is harder. People actually die when pulling too many mobs.

Dungeons on the other hand always were simple. I did BFD back then with a Hunter pet tanking, a Rogue and a Shadowpriest who healed. We were on level, it was like 1.10 or something, and it worked just fine.

Don't disregard everything because leveling Dungeons aren't dropkicking your teeth in. The earlier Classic content isn't all that difficult.

[ManiaCCC]

Since, in a current wow dungeon, any boss has more mecanics than any boss raid in vanilla. I do not think so.

Yea yea, like mechanics "dont' stand here" or more of "don't stand there".. In some cases "stand here". Sometimes they are very creative like "kill ads" or "avoid this shit"..

Look, I don't blame them. It's not like you can make some really difficult mechanics with WoW combat system and I like some of their ideas how to manage some debuffs, or trade debuffs with other players, limit visibility, maybe spliting into more groups, each doing different thing. I actually applaud blizzard they made some fights very interesting even with limited options they have with combat system.. however, I am not pretending it's hard in some real sense. If you know what you should be doing, it's trivial.

[precious]

Thousands of hours to preper for MC and clear it? Do u live in some parralel universe? So if u need lets say 2k hours, that equals 83 days for someone that plays 24 hours, or 160 days for someone that plays 12 hours per day or over 2-3 years for someone that plays 2-3 hours per day. So by the time u reach naxx u will be at least 20 years older.

Let me see if i understand correctly. 3-5 months average to lvl>enter>clear mc? Weird cause when i did it took less than 6 months to do it, including onyxia, concidering i had no clue what was going on and with a raid most of the times with less than 35 ppl cause of dcs, afks etc. But today after 16 years for some magic reason will take playerbase years to clear MC.

Lets go to the lfr part. Since u havent run anything above lfr when it was introduced lets see a history of lfr bosses. Entire heart of heart nerfed once in lfr, sha was nerfed twice in lfr, dark animus nerfed in lfr, durumu nerfed 5 times in lfr, lei shen was nerfed in lfr, blast furnace was nerfed in lfr, blackhand was nerfed in lfr, archimonde was nerfed in lfr, kj,avatar,maiden nerfed god knows how many times in lfr, ghuun nerfed twice in lfr. I guess all the ppl that cried they couldnt kill lfr bosses was the hc/mythic raiders apparently? If i had to bet i would say it was u that cried for nerfs that couldnt kill lfr bosses. All those cries about lfr bosses being hard was either the bosses had "some decent" difficulty or simply u just pressed only one button as u said. The shitshow in mop and legion of stacks of determination was on another lvl.

Also u cant clear raids in classic while doing nothing? Its called boosting. Happening since 2004. U cant ignore mechanics in classic? U mean the one mechanic that wasnt oneshotting in most cases? U mean healers staying at the further distance from raid to be able to be out of combat and rezz pplz while the rest were fighting the boss? Those kind of mechanics? The 255 lines macro of warriors when u just pressed it once and it was doing the entire rotation of warriors abilities and stances?

[Specialka]

Yea yea, like mechanics "dont' stand here" or more of "don't stand there".. In some cases "stand here". Sometimes they are very creative like "kill ads" or "avoid this shit"..

Look, I don't blame them. It's not like you can make some really difficult mechanics with WoW combat system and I like some of their ideas how to manage some debuffs, or trade debuffs with other players, limit visibility, maybe spliting into more groups, each doing different thing. I actually applaud blizzard they made some fights very interesting even with limited options they have with combat system.. however, I am not pretending it's hard in some real sense. If you know what you should be doing, it's trivial.

Obv, you beat Mythic KJ and world first Jaina mythic?

[precious]

Obv, you beat Mythic KJ and world first Jaina mythic?

You think he was even in classic back in 2004 clearing current raids?

[Specialka]

You think he was even in classic back in 2004 clearing current raids?

Most of the classic crowd was not there back then obv. I was not the big raider in 2004 but I cleared MC and the issue was not the raid, but the players between the afk and the clueless.

[Gsara]

Classic raids will be treated by the top guilds just like they are on pservers, fastest speed clear times. The rest of he server will play normally and just do shit with their guild but they still wont have a ton of problems clearing raids outside of actually having the people to do it.