Mythic+ is terrible for the game

[Tech614]

High M+ keys are just as challenging as mythic raiding, so what's your problem? The real issue is, 10 should not be the cap. It should be +15 at minimum and it should award an item in your weekly chest equal to mythic raid tier, then they should DELETE warforging and titanforging from the game. I don't have time to raid on a schedule because I'm an airline pilot. But I have time on my days off to push a couple keys.

+10 is roughly equal to the first half of a mythic raid difficulty wise. So it being the cap is right. You shouldn't have to do 15s to get items on par with loot pinatas like champions, grong and jade fire.

[Swizzington]

I'm a big fan of challenging dungeons. But I'm not at all a fan of that challenge being determined by a timer. Wiping multiple times on a tough boss before finally killing it is much more satisfying than having to rush, rush, rush.

[Swnem]

Nope. Mythic+ revealed how outdated the raiding paradigm is in this game.

People cried for 10 mans and blizzard devs didn't give a care. They think it's about their creative juices and having every class in a single raid, or various of the same one. This, while totally oblivious that gaming has moved on. The player base has aged. Long, grindy, unrewarding raids with 20 people required just don't work anymore. It just doesn't, and the lower versions are simply not rewarding enough. Even if they were, it doesn't change the fact that the cat is out of the box.

Raiding needs to be easier to organize. It needs to not be nearly impossible for small groups. It needs to be more rewarding... or it needs to stop being the focus.

Current raiding will keep being a problem. The declining of raiding was already happening before mythic+ was a thing. Removing mythic+ would not solve the problem. People don't want to go back to committing multiple hours an evening for raiding. They need to evolve the way they deliver raiding content and how worthwhile it is.

Removing the only worthwhile and exciting content the game still has is not gonna help it. It needs the other content types to be pulled to the same level.

[Tech614]

I'm a big fan of challenging dungeons. But I'm not at all a fan of that challenge being determined by a timer. Wiping multiple times on a tough boss before finally killing it is much more satisfying than having to rush, rush, rush.

It's not about rushing at all though. It's about being efficient. People that rush will wipe. You make sure your group has CDs up before big pulls, casually put in filler or trash skips while you're waiting for CD timers and lust.

Oh and if you do high keys don't even sit here and act like no boss is a challenge on tyrannical. Some are even a pain on fortified weeks with certain affixes like quaking or grievous involved.

People that come with this take don't understand M+ at all, and blame the fact that they struggle at them on wrong information like "I HAVE TO RUSH BUT I CANT!".

You should be efficient when you're playing the game anyways. Not being efficient means you waste your time, M+ literally is just telling you to not waste your time. THE HORROR.

[LDancer]

I actually agree with OP.
M+ is a cancer on the game in my opinion.

I appreciate others enjoy it, and props to you for pushing keys, but if find it to be a pointless time sink. I am not a mythic raider and nor do I pretend to be so there is little to no incentive for me to go past +10 once in a week... I don’t even care if I time it.

I actually miss CM - not only did I find them fun and challenging, but it gave great rewards in the armour sets and also provided incentive to level alts and appropriately gear them to get the sets for each. And with all these allied races being released, you’d think blizz would want to find a way to incentivise us to level an alt.

If CM is not challenging enough for the hardcore and the wanna-be leet raiders ... thats fine. As I said hats off if it is your thing. But give us heroic raiders choice and bring back CM mode

[Nzx]

OP is bad and can't get their RIO up. Nothing to see here.

Hahaha. This thread was done on the first page. Can't believe the discussion continued beyond this perfect summation for seven entire pages.

[Illana]

i've been on the M+ grind these last 2 weeks I've been back and for a solo player it's not good at all. Especially if you play a spec that's not wanted (hunter)

getting rejected from +9s even with 1k raiderio score

[Tech614]

i've been on the M+ grind these last 2 weeks I've been back and for a solo player it's not good at all. Especially if you play a spec that's not wanted (hunter)

getting rejected from +9s even with 1k raiderio score

You didn't get rejected because you "only" had a 1k IO score. You got rejected because they saw a better option. People always act as if they are the only dps queing up and getting declined when in fact they are just filling up on stronger options who are also in the que.

[Ztranger]

Always hard as DPS since your competing with a huge amount of players, and the chance that someone with higher score/higher ilvl signs up is pretty large. Your only shot at getting a good experience is getting into a premade, which is even harder than getting into a pug group but certainly worth the effort if m+ is your primary source of enjoyment. I also main hunter so I do know the pain of not playing a top 5 m+ spec, but chasing FOTM takes too much time/effort so it's not really my cup of tea.

[Soluna]

The glorified Diablo 3 greater rift system, now renamed to "Mythic+", is an un-MMO like feature that completely ruined ANY other way of gearing. It's literally a system taken from a non-MMORPG. It does not belong here.

The fact that you get the same ilvl from M+ as raiding is just awful. Why would anyone raid? Even Method has only defeated Jaina 2 times. Why farm her more? They get better gear from M+.

I was serious about raiding during this expansion for the first time since MoP. I was farming the heroics and then we started raiding as a Heroic raiding guild. It was fun. Then M+ unlocked. Guild leaders going "We expect you to farm M+ for gear and get +x ilvl by next raid"... I hate doing the same dungeons over and over again with scaled hp and dmg. Also raiding don't even give a single Tier set that looks cool... I quit raiding 3 weeks after M+ unlocked.

Raiding gear can't compete with M+. PvP gear can't compete with M+. Nothing can comete with M+.

I tried to cap on Conquest points each week to get that kind of gear but it's still miles worse than what M+10 gives.

How about making a dungeon system that can feel rewarding all expansion long without any scaling, while still giving incentive to raid? PS: Vanilla managed to do it, see dungeons set 1 and 2.

The game has gone from "raid or die" to "m+ or die", and I for one, rather die then.

I raid in a top 100 guild, and I do not feel the need to even get what are considered some of the best trinkets in the game for spellcasters in order to compete. You are overreacting, and considering you talk in a generalised sense, I imagine you don't have hands on experience with proper raiding, and you are just in some tryhard 1.4k rank guild, who forces their raiders to spam m+ 24/7 because they think a balefire branch is what separating them between Jaina being at 57% and 5%.

Also if you don't like it, go to Classic, it's almost here.

[MidnyteTV]

There's definitely some truth to the OP.

In Legion, M+ was seen as a near-mandatory activity. I can't stand M+. I was the GM/RL of a heroic raiding guild and I think I did maybe 6 keys the entire expac.

Now that there's no tier gear in raids, I can see why M+ is a viable gearing method.

But for guilds to require M+, now you're forcing people to do content they may not like.

Believe me, I love hard dungeons, but I hate being timed. Just a pet-peeve of mine.

[cparle87]

The glorified Diablo 3 greater rift system, now renamed to "Mythic+", is an un-MMO like feature that completely ruined ANY other way of gearing. It's literally a system taken from a non-MMORPG. It does not belong here.

The fact that you get the same ilvl from M+ as raiding is just awful. Why would anyone raid? Even Method has only defeated Jaina 2 times. Why farm her more? They get better gear from M+.

I was serious about raiding during this expansion for the first time since MoP. I was farming the heroics and then we started raiding as a Heroic raiding guild. It was fun. Then M+ unlocked. Guild leaders going "We expect you to farm M+ for gear and get +x ilvl by next raid"... I hate doing the same dungeons over and over again with scaled hp and dmg. Also raiding don't even give a single Tier set that looks cool... I quit raiding 3 weeks after M+ unlocked.

Raiding gear can't compete with M+. PvP gear can't compete with M+. Nothing can comete with M+.

I tried to cap on Conquest points each week to get that kind of gear but it's still miles worse than what M+10 gives.

How about making a dungeon system that can feel rewarding all expansion long without any scaling, while still giving incentive to raid? PS: Vanilla managed to do it, see dungeons set 1 and 2.

The game has gone from "raid or die" to "m+ or die", and I for one, rather die then.

Mythic plus caps at 400 with a single 410 piece per week. Mythic BoD gives 415, Crucible gives 425. So you're wrong there.

The dungeon one and two sets only worked because next to nobody was raiding then. The dungeon sets WERE the M+ alternative to raiding.

Also, did I seriously read you say that you want dungeons that don't scale to remain a challenge to give raid equivalent gear?

[Poe]

I agree, Mythic+ is garbage. Grinding the same dungeons for 2 years just to get the same loot at a new ilvl each season has got to be the the laziest game design I've seen in WOW.

How is this any worse from any other expansion's dungeon content.

I guess challenge modes were cool but after I got the tmog rewards they become pretty irrelevant outside of sales boosting runs.

[Illana]

You didn't get rejected because you "only" had a 1k IO score. You got rejected because they saw a better option. People always act as if they are the only dps queing up and getting declined when in fact they are just filling up on stronger options who are also in the que.

Isn't that my point, they took another class because it's better.

[Swnem]

Only problem with M+ is it overlaps too much with raiding, if they could separate the two out (make m+ gear better for m+ and raiding gear better for raiding) it would be 100x better.

It could also do with a better loot system but a weekly lock like EVERYTHING else that gives that level of loot, maybe only loot from 1 key of each level.

Not really. It would just depopulate both types of content. This is like saying PvP should have it's own gear. We have been there and it's not fun. Just compartilises players more.

[Th3Scourge]

As someone who has geared mostly from M+ I can say with some degree I think the loot system for M+ is somewhat broken. I have been able to just spam keys non-stop with a competent team and (with some lucky titanforges) reached 422 ilvl. I've barely bothered with Mythic raiding (2/9 BoD)

Granted many of the drops are heroic-level 400 loot so much of it is DE'd but there needs to be some sort of a throttle on the acquisition rate from spamming keys. I think loot acquisition in general needs to be looked at because I think that's the bigger issue here, not so much the M+ system itself, which I enjoy for the challenge

[Tech614]

Isn't that my point, they took another class because it's better.

I didn't know or care what your post was, it read like a self pity "I got declined" claim when the truth is they likely never even hovered over your name with the typical dps apps in a que. You weren't declined, the group full'd up. That simple.

- - - Updated - - -

reached 422 ilvl.

Who knew we had a top 40 geared players in the world randomly posting about how he hates M+ in this thread?

This claims seems more unlikely then likely, but feel free to prove it and make me eat crow if it is in fact true.

[Super Kami Dende]

M+ I think should become a staple in basically every MMO with a trinity system. I love small player Content but get bored as soon as I outgear it. M+ keeps it relevant and fun expansion long.

Sure there could be some changes to the system to be better, but as a core system It is great.

[Illana]

I didn't know or care what your post was, it read like a self pity "I got declined" claim when the truth is they likely never even hovered over your name with the typical dps apps in a que. You weren't declined, the group full'd up. That simple.

You know there's different messages you get right?

Group has been delisted
Group is full and has been delisted
Your application to group has been declined.

I'm talking about the latter.

[Tech614]

You know there's different messages you get right?

Group has been delisted
Group is full and has been delisted
Your application to group has been declined.

I'm talking about the latter.

Nobody takes the time to manually decline people, they just let the que fill up. If it happened it's a rarity and not common.