Do you think Classic will Overtake Retail?

[Lollis]

surrreeeee

you talk about raid exp and you have practically zero :0 in classic ,0 in tbc , 0 in wotlk ,0 in cata, 0 in mop

You cannot really use armory as any evidence for certain kills, especially Vanilla and TBC because the tracking wasn't in then and there is tracking for many bosses and mobs throughout the countless expansions that are just plain wrong. I've been back to every instance in TBC except Magtheridon and Gruul on my main character which still say that I haven't killed them on the boss kill page.



Top: Armory Gruul Achievement, Middle: Armory Gruul Kills, Bottom: In game Gruul Achievement.

Remember that much of the tracking of kills is determined by quest drops if you haven't actually killed them since the achievements were added.

Even the actual achievement for level 60 Onyxia was only added in 2009 on my main character despite having killed her countless times. My warrior alt has an earlier Onyxia kill achievement simply because she has the original Furor's Quel'serrar quest done.

playtime image

While undoubtedly you have likely played since Vanilla, you shouldn't use it as definitive proof (or use such numbers to counter others having played, especially for a single character)
My main throughout most of the game is only on 374 days and I've been playing since Vanilla.

As for achievements 'proving' people played in Vanilla. I think the only clear ones are the PvP honor titles and possibly the Dark Portal event. I'm not sure about the Naxx scourge invasion stuff (some but not all was rehashed for wotlk release but am not 100% sure about which things returned) Scarab Lord cannot be used because servers were opened in TBC that people abused to get the title.

[KaPe]

But it doesn't? Everything gets added in waves.

Not to mention during vanilla 2 dungeons were added in later (correct me if I'm wrong tho) so non-raider runs out of things to do 3 days after hitting level cap. Raider the day later.

I'm curious about it myself. The game doesn't even have Battlegrounds until phase 3? Dire Maul isn't there. Darkmoon Faire isn't there. Zul Gurub isn't there. World Bosses aren't there. BWL isn't there. Tier 0.5 questline isn't there.

I mean, I know that some people believe that levelling will take 4+ months or something, but it wasn't *that* hardcore. Unless these phases are fairly short, that's a lot of content being timegated.

[niztheundead87]

You cannot really use armory as any evidence for certain kills, especially Vanilla and TBC because the tracking wasn't in then and there is tracking for many bosses and mobs throughout the countless expansions that are just plain wrong. I've been back to every instance in TBC except Magtheridon and Gruul on my main character which still say that I haven't killed them on the boss kill page.



Top: Armory Gruul Achievement, Middle: Armory Gruul Kills, Bottom: In game Gruul Achievement.

Remember that much of the tracking of kills is determined by quest drops if you haven't actually killed them since the achievements were added.

Even the actual achievement for level 60 Onyxia was only added in 2009 on my main character despite having killed her countless times. My warrior alt has an earlier Onyxia kill achievement simply because she has the original Furor's Quel'serrar quest done.



While undoubtedly you have likely played since Vanilla, you shouldn't use it as definitive proof (or use such numbers to counter others having played, especially for a single character)
My main throughout most of the game is only on 374 days and I've been playing since Vanilla.

again : when the wotlk pre patch launched in tbc every single player that made an account during classic got a pvp title achievment depending on that you had before they changed the honor system .every single account that was made even the last day of classic. the first pvp title ,private for alliance / grunt for the horde
even if you didnt do pvp you had it. hence why i said he was lying.

also most raids had a prequest so if you have done them you have the prequest achievment , if you did bt you had the champion off the naruu and hand of adal
they exempted the only raids that didnt need a huge prequest , aka gruuls lair , magtheridon and sunwell ( a blizz gm told me at the time when i asked why i didnt have those achievments when the patch came ) the reason was if it didnt need a huge prequest it was easy to do it. onyxia had a long prequest and the person claimed he had it but he didnt .

every single account had the weapon skill achievment , even casters

all those achievment were account wide .besides the gladiator tittle and mount

- - - Updated - - -

I'm curious about it myself. The game doesn't even have Battlegrounds until phase 3? Dire Maul isn't there. Darkmoon Faire isn't there. Zul Gurub isn't there. World Bosses aren't there. BWL isn't there. Tier 0.5 questline isn't there.

I mean, I know that some people believe that levelling will take 4+ months or something, but it wasn't *that* hardcore. Unless these phases are fairly short, that's a lot of content being timegated.

the time schedule for classic phases has not been finalized yet so it is still being adressed

[Shakana]

I don't think so. Maybe on streams but tbh classic is too much nostalgia, people will get tired, they don't have the same time they had to grind stuff when they were younger, it was years ago, life changes, i'm pretty sure they will have some fun but they will get tired pretty soon

[Awsyme]

I never felt a need for Classic to return, but as a casual observer, I am glad that Blizz is trying to reproduce the Classic experience as much as possible, including all of the wonky bugs, shit class design/balance, the loss of every QoL addition that has been added over the years, and everything else that has been largely forgotten by those hyping it.

Had they not done so, and fixed so much of glaring issues Classic had, one of two things would have happened:
1) It does really well:
Pro-Classic: See?! Classic is better!
Pro-Retail: It's not Classic, it's just Retail with 60+ content removed

2) It does not do really well:
Pro-Classic: Well, it's not Classic!
Pro-Retail: Can't argue there.

But by trying to reproduce Classic as faithfully as they can, now in those two scenarios, we have:
1) It does really well:
Pro-Classic: See?! Classic is better!
Pro-Retail: Wow... I did not see that happening...

2) It does not do really well:
Pro-Classic: But... it's better... I swear!
Pro-Retail: Will you finally give it a rest already?!

As I said, interested in how it will play out.

Definitely. Personally I wish it hadn't been such a triggering topic. We might have got classic-remastered, with areas finished for launch, better models and a polish pass on certain specs. But I get this ship has long ago sailed

[bowchikabow]

Short-term, I think the hype train will push classic WELL above retail. There are LOTS of people who won't play BFA that will try/play classic. I expect 5mil or more in the opening few months.

Long-term, I don't think it will stay above retail. There will be a steady core of people who dedicate to classic and will keep it relevant. However, the grind and overall effort to move forward at level 60 will drive a swath of people away from classic.

[Ghostile]

the content release waves should keep classic going for at least 18 months until it's wrapped up.

2 dungeons were added in those patches.

The raids are bland as fuck.

There's no chance in hell it will keep people interested for 18 months, considering stuff with more variety, quantity and quality in retail doesn't.

[Lollis]

also most raids had a prequest so if you have done them you have the prequest achievment , if you did bt you had the champion off the naruu and hand of adal
they exempted the only raids that didnt need a huge prequest , aka gruuls lair , magtheridon and sunwell ( a blizz gm told me at the time when i asked why i didnt have those achievments when the patch came ) the reason was if it didnt need a huge prequest it was easy to do it. onyxia had a long prequest and the person claimed he had it but he didnt .

Yeh, the point im making is with Onyxia, despite having done the attunement, despite having killed her countless times on my Mage (probably more than I did on my original Rogue main even) the actual achievement didn't get given to me until I killed her again in 2009 before she was removed for the anniversary event.

My warrior alt has an earlier Onyxia kill even though I only killed her once with my guild carrying me for a Furors that i'd managed to farm on my Mage.

Your point about the PvP titles though is valid. I can't say about PvE players getting titles though. If they had done zero PvP (how that would happen I have no idea) then maybe? But I played on a PvP server so am not sure.

[justandulas]

2 dungeons were added in those patches.

The raids are bland as fuck.

There's no chance in hell it will keep people interested for 18 months, considering stuff with more variety, quantity and quality in retail doesn't.

they appeal to two very different wow audiences, and almost two different game genres. I think both will be fine a year after launch. I hope classic doesn't kill bfa, and i don't want classic to bomb either.

I don't understand the animosity within the wow community; there is enough wow for both to co-exist and thrive.

[Syfus]

no, and classic will lose all shine in a few weeks

[UnluckyAmateur]

I'm under the impression that you can play whatever you want in retail, Classic is lining up to be the complete opposite, so hard no.

[Lollis]

I'm under the impression that you can play whatever you want in retail, Classic is lining up to be the complete opposite, so hard no.

You can play whatever you want in Classic, just don't expect to be joining any serious guilds if you are playing a spec that can't do stuff properly.

But retail isn't far from this for some specs also....Arms, DK, Mage, im looking at you.

[niztheundead87]

Yeh, the point im making is with Onyxia, despite having done the attunement, despite having killed her countless times on my Mage (probably more than I did on my original Rogue main even) the actual achievement didn't get given to me until I killed her again in 2009 before she was removed for the anniversary event.

My warrior alt has an earlier Onyxia kill even though I only killed her once with my guild carrying me for a Furors that i'd managed to farm on my Mage.

Your point about the PvP titles though is valid. I can't say about PvE players getting titles though. If they had done zero PvP (how that would happen I have no idea) then maybe? But I played on a PvP server so am not sure.

the whole onyxia achievment was a mess up from blizz's side:

As of the Latest 3.2.2 PTR build (10357) this Achievement has been changed to a Feat of Strength, meaning anyone who had it before 3.2.2 will lose it when the patch goes live and have to earn the new version, now categorized under Lich King 10 and 25 man. It has also been removed as a criteria of Classic Raider.

so some people lost it even if they had it

[KaPe]

You can play whatever you want in Classic, just don't expect to be joining any serious guilds if you are playing a spec that can't do stuff properly.

But retail isn't far from this for some specs also....Arms, DK, Mage, im looking at you.

And yet differences in retail are barely double digit (ignoring the multidot idiocy in CoS). In vanilla, it was more like 50%. Or being unable to play properly on progression, because you'd run out of mana doing your damage rotation for more than one minute.

[Lollis]

And yet differences in retail are barely double digit (ignoring the multidot idiocy in CoS). In vanilla, it was more like 50%. Or being unable to play properly on progression, because you'd run out of mana doing your damage rotation for more than one minute.

90th, Dazar'alor.



Purple Line: 1st
Green Line: 6th
Yellow Line: Arcane (12th out of 24)
Blue Line: Frost (16th)
Red Line: Fire (19th)

Paladin is 11th
Monk is 18th
Warrior is 13th & 24th
Death Knight is 21st & 23rd

Every other class has at least one spec above the half way point for DPS

Everything at Fire and below needs bringing up, Arms and somewhat Unholy need it significantly.
Everything at Retribution and above needs bringing down significantly, especially anything above Outlaw (8th)

There is a bigger gap between 5th and 12th than there is between 12th and 24th, that is just ridiculous.

Top vs bottom is 14% difference. So while it isn't as bad at 50% it isn't great either. (50% is an overstatement though)

[KaPe]

Top vs bottom is 14% difference. So while it isn't as bad at 50% it isn't great either. (50% is an overstatement though)

Is it? Rolling ignite could make the very same spec have wildly different dps, while other were basically impossible to use - because of debuff slots, mana, bad dps or putting in ten times as much effort for inferior results. Obviously what we have nowadays isn't perfect, but Vanilla... oof.

[Lollis]

Is it? Rolling ignite could make the very same spec have wildly different dps, while other were basically impossible to use - because of debuff slots, mana, bad dps or putting in ten times as much effort for inferior results. Obviously what we have nowadays isn't perfect, but Vanilla... oof.

There were bad dps classes there is no denying. But one class doing 50% more than another was rare and usually linked to "get gud" & "get gear" far more than just class 1 vs class 2.

[justandulas]

Is it? Rolling ignite could make the very same spec have wildly different dps, while other were basically impossible to use - because of debuff slots, mana, bad dps or putting in ten times as much effort for inferior results. Obviously what we have nowadays isn't perfect, but Vanilla... oof.

It won't be quite as bad for the lesser classes in classic this round 2, due to it being 1.12 right out of the game instead of 1.0.

Many of the classes, like feral druid, started taking baby steps into relevance about halfway into vanilla and ended up significantly better than they started.

The hardest part will honestly be overcoming the negative community stigma, IMHO

[glowpipe]

You're immaturity is showing. All you have to do is drop a character link proving you did any vanilla raids in vanilla. Isn't hard.

You do that, and ill drop my main on you.

I'll give you another hint: I have a Murky.

Honestly, i just don't believe you so i'm done with you. Begone, troll or put your money where your mouth is.

EDIT: ONY lair lol. Hit me with AQ40 or Naxx. That said, i'm a man of my word let me dig up my character.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...stan/pve/raids

My guild and I quit early in BFA because, well, BFA. I was probably the first to walk away but none of us wanted to keep playing BFA. Look to Legion for my Mythic MT experience, and i could've gone further but i love my crew and didn't wanna leave (i had poach offers but my guys r good guys)

Urm, what is actually the raid history going to prove ? you can do those raids today and the kill is counted. I have tempest keep on my monk which i made in legion

[justandulas]

Urm, what is actually the raid history going to prove ? you can do those raids today and the kill is counted. I have tempest keep on my monk which i made in legion

Date of, but it's all a moot point anyway because that guy won't link anything of his out of fear of being called out. It isn't worth feeding the troll.

The thing i just don't get is why there's so much animosity between classic wow fans, and live wow players. There's PLENTY of WoW for both of us and we should all hope both versions are as successful as possible.