One classic nay sayer admits they were wrong after playing beta

[Awsyme]

I'd say juggling 50 points on paper sounds great. But not when you have to dump 5 points to up your critical strike.

Just like they said during Blizzcon 2009 (I was there), the talents needed to be streamlined in some way so that ou weren't dumping points into boring talents. From my recollection, as Prot Warrior, i had 23 points that either upped my crit, defense, or shield block.

Sure. And a lot of the old trees were garbage (My Holy priest cursed the length of time its capstone was utter garbage). Should they have been better? Sure! Was it a perfect system? God no.

BUT there's a sense of accomplishment and something to do each time you gain a level. Even if it's just working your way down a tree. Compare that to BFA which offers.... nothing. Absolutely nothing. And I understand why. Because at some point you're going to have to stop inventing new abilities for your players. Ones that probably only add complexity to rotations.

[Soluna]

Age literally has nothing to do with what the quality of the game is at, the only thing determining the quality of the game is the developers.

Sure go ahead and say that, but there are thousands of people, if not millions, who don't realise that they don't like the game because they've been playing it for 8-10 years, not because it's necessarily at its worst. Imo, BfA is as good as Legion, what it suffers from is that its a Legion V2, and people have grown tired of it, because newsflash, it's gotten old. And no, a couple of legendaries or artifact weapons did not make ALL specs a lot more interesting than they are now, sorry.

And WoD is a pile of trash, which BfA is a thousand times better than, whose only redeeming points were leveling, and Blackrock foundry. And if that expansion had more subs than BfA, then it's defo because the game is just getting older, and older, and older, AND OLDER. Also, MoP is definitely the best expansion, or at least as amazing as Wotlk, yet MoP didn't peak 12 million subs, did it? You are just fooling yourself if you think age has nothing to do with the game being at its current state.

[ManiaCCC]

Zul gurub was à catch up mecanics and so was Dire maul. Sorry to burst your bubble.

This has to be troll..

[Annelie]

Explain it. I'l wait.

They made gear better in a later patch wich made early raids more or less pointless. ZG and AQ20 was also a catchup mechanic.

EDIT: Onyxia, ZG, AQ20, MC and BWL could be done easily with dungeon blues after the gear upgrade patch (and we will start with that one in the game).

[MidnyteTV]

Sure. And a lot of the old trees were garbage (My Holy priest cursed the length of time its capstone was utter garbage). Should they have been better? Sure! Was it a perfect system? God no.

BUT there's a sense of accomplishment and something to do each time you gain a level. Even if it's just working your way down a tree. Compare that to BFA which offers.... nothing. Absolutely nothing. And I understand why. Because at some point you're going to have to stop inventing new abilities for your players. Ones that probably only add complexity to rotations.

I can't really relate to that "sense of accomplishment" of gaining a level, when I mostly had to buy talent ranks from a trainer and get 1% more of something. It wasn't very intuitive from my perspective. But hey, just my opinion.

When you are going from 1-120, every level can't have something. I'm not going to sit here and defend BfA, but I really did enjoy how talents, tier, legendaries, artifact abilities, and relics effected your gameplay. We aren't in a good spot in BfA. But saying that going back to a system that was considered groundbreaking in 2004 is the way to go sounds a little far-fetched.

[Varolyn]

And meanwhile you have turds like Alexensual who thinks that the water being more hd and all this other nonsense will "kill" classic wow lmao.

But this isn't surprising. Once you go back to an old game that you used to love after so many years, it becomes really fun to play for awhile. It will probably happen to me too when I pick up classic. How long that enjoyment will last is still up in the air but I imagine I'll still have fun until at least level cap.

[Gungnir]

Sure go ahead and say that, but there are thousands of people, if not millions, who don't realise that they don't like the game because they've been playing it for 8-10 years, not because it's necessarily at its worst. Imo, BfA is as good as Legion, what it suffers from is that its a Legion V2, and people have grown tired of it, because newsflash, it's gotten old. And no, a couple of legendaries or artifact weapons did not make ALL specs a lot more interesting than they are now, sorry.

And WoD is a pile of trash, which BfA is a thousand times better than, whose only redeeming points were leveling, and Blackrock foundry. And if that expansion had more subs than BfA, then it's defo because the game is just getting older, and older, and older, AND OLDER. Also, MoP is definitely the best expansion, or at least as amazing as Wotlk, yet MoP didn't peak 12 million subs, did it? You are just fooling yourself if you think age has nothing to do with the game being at its current state.

Except there are thousands of people, if not millions that keep playing older iterations of games because they don't like the new iterations of them.
That still applies to WoW, even moreso than before due to the absolutely massive amounts of changes made to the game.

And yeah, BfA is totally as good as Legion and everyone loves the Azerite system.
Everyone also hated tier sets, legendaries and artifact weapons.

It is known.

[Soluna]

Except there are thousands of people, if not millions that keep playing older iterations of games because they don't like the new iterations of them.
That still applies to WoW, even moreso than before due to the absolutely massive amounts of changes made to the game.

And yeah, BfA is totally as good as Legion and everyone loves the Azerite system.
Everyone also hated tier sets, legendaries and artifact weapons.

It is known.

You are forgetting the backlash of initial grinding of artifact power and legendaries, and that things got a lot better after 7.2. Same shit is happening with BfA. I think you need to refresh your memory.

[Gungnir]

You are forgetting the backlash of initial grinding of artifact power and legendaries, and that things got a lot better after 7.2. Same shit is happening with BfA. I think you need to refresh your memory.

Nah, I know very well the backlash of initial Legion, even after things got "better" I still didn't enjoy it.
Things sure doesn't get better in BfA when they've taken the few interesting things that were in Legion, i.e tier sets and legendaries aswell as the artifact weapons, out of the game and also introduce a GCD, on top of crushing secondary stats makes the game far from enjoyable.

Outside of straight removing some actual good talents and skills and putting legendary effects in their spot at best, classes barely got any changes to bridge the gap between Legion and BfA.
As a previous DK main, playing UH or Blood while struggling to get to 20% haste where the specs only start feeling good near 25%, it isn't enjoyable.
I can't even talk about Frost because that is a spec that is completely dead.


A lot of people didn't like Legion for the systems they brought into the game, and BfA is sort of a Legion 0.5.
The only difference is that it's gotten even duller. It's a hard sell trying to convince people that the only reason why BfA is struggling is because "it's the same as Legion and it's just old at this point", because the issues lie in how the game is fundamentally designed.

[Dald]

I've played since 2005 and I raided heavily in Vanilla. Killed C'Thun the very day it was patched to be killable, within 2ish hours of the fix etc. (Mostly) solo pvp'd my way to General rank and did my share of wpvp. Vanilla had its moments but I would 100% not play again.

[Daffan]

catch ups were definitely not the reason for content droughts

1) Expert top end players will always have content droughts. This is not who I am talking about

2) 90% of playerbase will never beat current raid on proper difficulty, only on the new easy-mode before being skipped into next tier when it releases. Therefore their raid career per patch is short lived and they sit around aimlessly waiting with nothing worth doing.

No matter when you joined or started raiding, you'l only ever, at max, have one raid available.

Hahahah... Dire Maul catchup? Are you comparing Dire Maul to modern days world quest or m+ dungeons where gear scale with each patch....?

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They made gear better in a later patch wich made early raids more or less pointless. ZG and AQ20 was also a catchup mechanic.

EDIT: Onyxia, ZG, AQ20, MC and BWL could be done easily with dungeon blues after the gear upgrade patch (and we will start with that one in the game).

For 95% of players, ZG was run parallel with MC and Ony. It wasn't a place you just went to and than skipped to t2. hash tag #sorry not sorry.

[Gungnir]

Clearly Classic/Vanilla is some form of audiovisual crack cocaine with the amount of people that's come out of the woodworks saying "I want to play more" when they're also people who've put probably 7 - 10 hours a day into the game for 14 years.


EDIT- It's a really good video regarding how and why Classic is differing from retail from the perspective of someone who's been playing more than a majority of people throughout the entire games lifecycle.

[Celista]

Clearly Classic/Vanilla is some form of audiovisual crack cocaine with the amount of people that's come out of the woodworks saying "I want to play more" when they're also people who've put probably 7 - 10 hours a day into the game for 14 years.

World of Warcraft is basically the equivalent of playing slot machines, with the guise of effort added in to enhance reward mechanisms. There are a lot of current and former players that are absolutely addicted.

[Gungnir]

World of Warcraft is basically the equivalent of playing slot machines, with the guise of effort added in to enhance reward mechanisms. There are a lot of current and former players that are absolutely addicted.

I wouldn't really equate it with slot machines, but it's pretty clear that Blizzard didn't only catch lightning in a bottle with the timing of the games release, but also the design of it. Otherwise it would've never caught on.
They just somehow managed to mask some faily simple and easy systems with a sense of grandeur and curiosity.

[Awsyme]

I can't really relate to that "sense of accomplishment" of gaining a level, when I mostly had to buy talent ranks from a trainer and get 1% more of something. It wasn't very intuitive from my perspective. But hey, just my opinion.

When you are going from 1-120, every level can't have something. I'm not going to sit here and defend BfA, but I really did enjoy how talents, tier, legendaries, artifact abilities, and relics effected your gameplay. We aren't in a good spot in BfA. But saying that going back to a system that was considered groundbreaking in 2004 is the way to go sounds a little far-fetched.

That's definitely another conversation.

I suspect down the line they're likely to do a level squish, bringing it back down to reasonably manageable heights. But who knows. I agree you can't keep adding abilities (and for the record? I genuinely don't think the old talent trees are the best implementation of any of this. Just that they had certain advantages modern wow lacks.

If I had to pick a single thing I miss from Classic its actually the inflated damage of several mobs. I liked CCing. I liked that element of target fire in instances instead of just AOEing packs down.

If I had to pick a single thing I loathe about classic? The artwork. New models, races and transmog is a huge part of why I still play. I always raided to get matching sets because a lot of time the other stuff just... looked dreadful. (to each their own I know.... )

[masonarypp]

The hype is real.

[Loeko]

Clearly Classic/Vanilla is some form of audiovisual crack cocaine with the amount of people that's come out of the woodworks saying "I want to play more" when they're also people who've put probably 7 - 10 hours a day into the game for 14 years.


EDIT- It's a really good video regarding how and why Classic is differing from retail from the perspective of someone who's been playing more than a majority of people throughout the entire games lifecycle.

Great video. I'm usually not a big fan of Preach, but this time, he perfectly described how I feel about Classic and retail. I also think that if Classic works, the community might be split in two, with on one side players looking for a more immersive and achievement oriented D&D kind of experience, and on the other side players looking for a more adrenaline and instant fun experience. I don't know if it'll be a good thing but at least, the part of the community that lost the first option with the changes of direction will now have something to enjoy.

[Super Kami Dende]

With a Video title like "Everyone was wrong about Classic WoW" the guy seems like an arrogant cock I wouldn't want to listen to anyway.

Also myself as a Classic Naysayer, I can't be wrong in my own opinion since I played Vanilla and remember how shitty much of it was compared to later iterations.

[ManiaCCC]

With a Video title like "Everyone was wrong about Classic WoW" the guy seems like an arrogant cock I wouldn't want to listen to anyway.

Also myself as a Classic Naysayer, I can't be wrong in my own opinion since I played Vanilla and remember how shitty much of it was compared to later iterations.

Force is actually quite fun to watch. He is not taking himself too seriously.

[Raeli]

With a Video title like "Everyone was wrong about Classic WoW" the guy seems like an arrogant cock I wouldn't want to listen to anyway.

Also myself as a Classic Naysayer, I can't be wrong in my own opinion since I played Vanilla and remember how shitty much of it was compared to later iterations.

This is basically how I felt - it's how Preach felt if you watch his video too. I did basically everything in vanilla - ok, I didn't get Atiesh or bang the gong, or get GM, but most of everything else - enough that I felt done with it, and haven't really ever had the desire to play private servers.

I got into the beta, honestly not really caring about it. Since that day though, I've logged into classic every day and am continuing to do so since my char hit 30.

There's just something about it, and you have to experience it for yourself. Preach is right - this is the game I fell in love with. It's not one little thing you can point to as to why it's more fun but it is - I'm having a tonne of fun in classic right now.

Honestly, give it a try when it launches, you may be surprised, even if you've done it all before.