How come BfA is worse than Legion?

[dorkaina]

I really loved Legion, one of the top expansions for me (started on Cataclysm official... tbc unofficial servers).
Bfa is better than WoD from my pov, but still I do feel it lacks some... dunno, personality?

[rohoz]

I did resub 2 weeks ago, been playing a Monk and dabbling in Survival Hunter.

so you have no idea what you're talking about but still see the need to complain about what you don't know. gotcha

[Kitket the Great]

Game turned into casual fest... which suits my preferences. There are multiple choices out there, just move on and change a game.

If you don't like where the game is heading - take a break and maybe play something else. BFA is much slower than Legion (in terms of gameplay) but can be still as fun if you focus on the old content.

[OopsReality]

Game turned into casual fest... which suits my preferences. There are multiple choices out there, just move on and change a game.

If you don't like where the game is heading - take a break and maybe play something else. BFA is much slower than Legion (in terms of gameplay) but can be still as fun if you focus on the old content.

BFA is... incredibly bad, and trying to circumnavigate that fact by saying "you can do old content that makes it fun" is... special.

[TyrianFC]

Answer: BFA took away too many of Legions best features, and failed to replace them with something comparably compelling or exciting. And thats not just referring to mechanical systems like Artifacts, but includes concepts like Class Halls etc.

It strikes me as fucking BIZARRE that after one of Legions greatest successes (Emphasis on class identity! Class halls etc) .. that they threw the whole lot out the window for BFA?

[rohoz]

Game turned into casual fest... which suits my preferences. There are multiple choices out there, just move on and change a game.

If you don't like where the game is heading - take a break and maybe play something else. BFA is much slower than Legion (in terms of gameplay) but can be still as fun if you focus on the old content.

is it slower though?
Outside of *major* cooldowns on the gcd, the game is the exact same pace. Compare legion mdi to bfa mdi and, rogue shenanigans aside, they play at the exact same pace. Only class I can think of out of all 12 that may be slower is dk. Most classes are 60+ apm with a 1 sec gcd.

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Answer: BFA took away too many of Legions best features, and failed to replace them with something comparably compelling or exciting. And thats not just referring to mechanical systems like Artifacts, but includes concepts like Class Halls etc.

It strikes me as fucking BIZARRE that after one of Legions greatest successes (Emphasis on class identity! Class halls etc) .. that they threw the whole lot out the window for BFA?

"class identity" was literally only for 1 expansion, the only time you were ever a druid above a soldier of the horde/alliance was in legion. War against the legion is done and so is that, you go back to being a soldier. idgi.

Then again noone has ever paid attention to the story so i'm acc not surprised

[roboscorcher]

Legion wasn't that great to be honest. Your just blinded by the shit show that was WoD and the artifact weapons we got in Legion. This game hasn't been halfway decent since Mists of Pandaria.

Were Artifacts merely a blindside? I mean, it was a core feature of the game. Levelling up the Ashbringer was probably my favorite progression in WoW. I'm a casual player, but I loved the system so much, I unlocked every skin. The system was really solid and rewarding, and BfA totally missed the mark on what made it so.

[schwank05]

Translation: I played a healing class that was OP as fvck and when they tried to balance it a bit, I became unhappy.
And the nerfs weren't even that bad.


Yes, and having only instants was absolutely not OP in both PVE and PVP.



And yet druid is the most OP healing class in M+.

The tank healing priest and Pally did their job I did mine I miss having great raid healers and great tank healers. pally Int stacking to spam FOL and druids bouncing all over the place in tree form casting Rejuv. Disc priests were also the best in MOP, and suck now. When healers are OP they are in their best spot IMO. I just can't get into having to cast I feel that every caster should be able to move while casting with a 30-40% movement speed penalty. TSW did this and it was great.

[Daevied]

Whoever says tier sets were bad and not missed and legendaries rng loot system were good is wrong and dont deserve to keep playing this game!

[schwank05]

Were Artifacts merely a blindside? I mean, it was a core feature of the game. Levelling up the Ashbringer was probably my favorite progression in WoW. I'm a casual player, but I loved the system so much, I unlocked every skin. The system was really solid and rewarding, and BfA totally missed the mark on what made it so.

I think the whole Artifact weapon / neck thing is a joke and hated every aspect of a never ending scaling piece of gear I never replaced. I also think that Legendary's dropping outside of a few on specific raid bosses is dumb also. The earned Legendary are fine, but the whole ooo look I did a WQ give me a Legendary was dumb.

[rohoz]

The tank healing priest and Pally did their job I did mine I miss having great raid healers and great tank healers. pally Int stacking to spam FOL and druids bouncing all over the place in tree form casting Rejuv. Disc priests were also the best in MOP, and suck now. When healers are OP they are in their best spot IMO. I just can't get into having to cast I feel that every caster should be able to move while casting with a 30-40% movement speed penalty. TSW did this and it was great.

you think disc priests are bad

you are absolutely ignorant and should just stop

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Whoever says tier sets were bad and not missed and legendaries rng loot system were good is wrong and dont deserve to keep playing this game!

Cleared every tier except naxx, hof/toes and tot as current content. I do not miss tier. There is no rng in azerite drops (you opt to random roll residuum)

What people miss is playing dress-up every new tier. Which is fine, but don't conflate the issues. Azerite is, from a balancing and player power perspective, superior to tier in every imaginable way. You just wanna look cute.

[schwank05]

you think disc priests are bad

you are absolutely ignorant and should just stop

Didn't say they were Bad, just that I had the most fun playing one in MOP, don't like having to apply Atonement, and loved the pure DPS aspect to heal of them, were they OP... Oh, hell yeah, but they were a blast to play.

[Villager720]

For me personally, I find myself not caring about any of the in-game systems.

No armor sets to work towards in the raids (I actually like the warfront ones but thats just 20 minutes every 11 days).
I could not care less about anything to do with Azerite or grinding out traits I had two months ago.
No unique, class based weapon skins and mounts to work towards.
The rewards from Islands are just recolors of mounts I already have. And ...pets.
The way gearing and patch cycles work now, I don't care about ilvl cause it just gets inflated (as does the world's scaling...). Which has been the case since WotLK, but, it certainly doesn't help BfA's situation.
And as noted by everyone, my classes are less fun than in Legion.

All of this left me in a state where I would : log in, consider my options, go "meh", and log off.

[justandulas]

For me personally, I find myself not caring about any of the in-game systems.

No armor sets to work towards in the raids (I actually like the warfront ones but thats just 20 minutes every 11 days).
I could not care less about anything to do with Azerite or grinding out traits I had two months ago.
No unique, class based weapon skins and mounts to work towards.
The rewards from Islands are just recolors of mounts I already have. And ...pets.
The way gearing and patch cycles work now, I don't care about ilvl cause it just gets inflated (as does the world's scaling...). Which has been the case since WotLK, but, it certainly doesn't help BfA's situation.
And as noted by everyone, my classes are less fun than in Legion.

All of this left me in a state where I would : log in, consider my options, go "meh", and log off.

I truly loath the seasonal approach to wow it's turned into in the last few years, where only the current content matters and everything from prior in the expac is nothing.

I'd prefer it if you had to work your way up like the old days, i don't care how bad it is for players who came to the expac late this is an RPG... you are meant to beat A to get to B, B to C, and so on... now, everyone is just doing different difficulties of A and the next patch will make the next raid A and so on. There's no climbing the ladder of advancement other than artificial via difficulty which is boring for quite a bit of people.

[Tomana]

The tank healing priest and Pally did their job I did mine I miss having great raid healers and great tank healers. pally Int stacking to spam FOL and druids bouncing all over the place in tree form casting Rejuv.

Yeah, having healing roles was great on paper. Problem is, as a tank healer, you're the first one to get shafted if you need more DPS, as a druid spamming 3xlifebloom on tanks (for example) was able to provide a decent chunk of healing as well (or a sham spamming chain heal with MT/OT as primary target).

Disc priests were also the best in MOP, and suck now

Disc priest in early MOP were retardedly OP. I still have nightmare about empress shek'wachamacallit (the last boss of Heart of Fear) when you see every other healer getting outperformed so bad it's not even funny.

When healers are OP they are in their best spot IMO.

The thing is, if healers are OP (in terms of HPS vs dmg taken), raid leaders just bring less of them. So it comes to bite you in the ass.
Which by the way was a huge problem in e.g. Sunwell, because you needed to swap from 6 healers (M'uru/Brutallus) to 10-11 (Eredar twins).

[Bellamas]

Island Expeditions being mandatory. They are like scenarios without any story. It is just a stupid kill fest, yet the only valid way to get AP.

[rohoz]

I truly loath the seasonal approach to wow it's turned into in the last few years, where only the current content matters and everything from prior in the expac is nothing.

I'd prefer it if you had to work your way up like the old days, i don't care how bad it is for players who came to the expac late this is an RPG... you are meant to beat A to get to B, B to C, and so on... now, everyone is just doing different difficulties of A and the next patch will make the next raid A and so on. There's no climbing the ladder of advancement other than artificial via difficulty which is boring for quite a bit of people.

Players did that and players complained through the ages that they felt shitty when they had to go back to previous tiers to get things, though.
Revisionist wow history is really tiring.

If people really liked the "rpg" part of raids, they wouldn't have been crying tears of bloody murder for the removal of attunements and the like in tbc. The same kids who were crying about only seeing kara back then, are the kids parroting "lfr is real raiding" and "artificial difficulty"

[roboscorcher]

I think the whole Artifact weapon / neck thing is a joke and hated every aspect of a never ending scaling piece of gear I never replaced.

Interesting, I disagree completely. I actually really liked the fact that it was a "permanent" weapon. Weapons have always been a big bottleneck for output in WoW and it was nice to not rely on RNG or PvP to get the good ones. In contrast, I found the Azerite Armour really mundane. Throwing endless pieces out while levelling made them feel pointless. Not to mention all the skins and challenges that artifacts brought.

I also think that Legendary's dropping outside of a few on specific raid bosses is dumb also. The earned Legendary are fine, but the whole ooo look I did a WQ give me a Legendary was dumb.

Yeah they bungled the Legendary system at first. By the end, I really liked having pieces that I didn't have to replace. Need a speedboost? Throw Aggramar's Stride on. Need a shield? Pop the ring (I think it was the ring).

[pewpmeiser]

its not, both have been fantastic

[justandulas]

Players did that and players complained through the ages that they felt shitty when they had to go back to previous tiers to get things, though.
Revisionist wow history is really tiring.

If people really liked the "rpg" part of raids, they wouldn't have been crying tears of bloody murder for the removal of attunements and the like in tbc. The same kids who were crying about only seeing kara back then, are the kids parroting "lfr is real raiding" and "artificial difficulty"

I was there then, and yes it was aggravating to attune someone new through SSC/TK for example; it still felt meaningful. The game was undoubtedly in a better state when they used the RPG formula of climbing the ladder of success vs the new diablo 3 style loot systems of "everyones a winner, just determine how much u wanna win".

One is a real MMO RPG and the current game is an MMO ARPG. It's more diablo 3 today than everquest, which is a huge reason why so many have fled current wow for greener pastures or will prefer vanilla wow

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Yeah they bungled the Legendary system at first. By the end, I really liked having pieces that I didn't have to replace. Need a speedboost? Throw Aggramar's Stride on. Need a shield? Pop the ring (I think it was the ring).

the legendary's of legion only didn't work for alt-aholics. People who played one character only, like myself, had all the legendary's WAY too early in the expac. I'd argue having all the legendary's was a bigger issue for end game raiders than "not getting my favorite piece because i've been too busy on alt #8"