Pro-lifer argument: "what if your parents decided to abort you?!"

[Osmeric]

That pro-life argument is also an argument against birth control, celibacy, or defending oneself against rape.

[josykay]

Why are liberals all like this? You all live without purpose is why.

What purpose is there, for a person with my... "abilities"? There is no profession, no family, and never will be. What purpose is there? Cheering for the achievments of other people? Being laughed at? Nahh, you can look for somebody else! There is no purpose for me. No niche. Just nothing.
And if people despise me... even less.

[Talon8669]

I don't know, I suppose you would have to ask the family. There certainly isn't anything preventing one from doing so.

[arandomuser]

good question thats why even i as a liberal person think we should have atleast SOME limits on abortion, even the scandinavian countries have it banned after viability 20 weeks, with exceptions of rape/incest and i even like some of the bills proposed that make it illegal to get an abortion for the sole purpose of the child being a certain race/gender or disability. it seems to be an anti eugenics bill which the LEFT should be supportive of

[crewskater]

It's not a double standard. They're not equivalent moral cases, so you can't treat it as some sort of tit-for-tat scenario.

Besides just because it's the same type of argument, the context is fundamentally different. It's not the same argument just because the reasoning is the same. The arugment is in fact 'if you don't want to risk a pregnancy then do't have sex', which is totally reasonable.

It actually is a double standard. You can't force a woman then you can't force a man. It's really that easy. If you can force a man then you can force a woman. Nice slippery slope you have there. Are you sure that you're not a secret pro-lifer because that's how your response comes off.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I wouldn't even have ever known for obvious reasons.
No idea why other people would care about me/my girlfriend deciding to abort in the first place. Everyone should mind their own business.

I mean that's a bit edgy to say, but the fact remains that being aborted prior to having a consciousness would not have inconvenienced you in the slightest.

Exactly so.

[Talon8669]

That pro-life argument is also an argument against birth control, celibacy, or defending oneself against rape.

I'd disagree with that completely. I am pro-life and 100% for birth control, totally don't care if you're celibate or not (just responsible) and I think you should totally defend yourself against rape; needless to say rape is a deplorable act and we as a country are far to easy on these scumbags.

[Nurasu]

I'd disagree with that completely. I am pro-life and 100% for birth control, totally don't care if you're celibate or not (just responsible) and I think you should totally defend yourself against rape; needless to say rape is a deplorable act and we as a country are far to easy on these scumbags.

He's speaking to the logic of the statement. "What if your parents decided to use birth control?" "What if your parents decided to be celibate?" etc.

[Osmeric]

I'd disagree with that completely. I am pro-life and 100% for birth control, totally don't care if you're celibate or not (just responsible) and I think you should totally defend yourself against rape; needless to say rape is a deplorable act and we as a country are far to easy on these scumbags.

You can disagree, but it is hypocritical for you to do so.

If abortion causes a potential person to never be born, then so do those other things. If they have the same effect, then an argument based on that effect applies to them as well.

[agentsi]

I'm pro-life myself. I'm not necessarily saying abortion should be banned though. It's a complicated issue. And the only reason I'd say to keep it legal is because women who want to kill their unborn children will do so whether it's legal or not, so this way it can at least be somewhat safe (well, for the mother at least, not for the baby in any case). I, however, do believe abortion should be limited to the first trimester, except in the case of non-viable pregnancies or risk to the mother.

A woman does have the right to do what she wants with her body, but I also would have my right to end a relationship or marriage with my wife/gf if she kills my unborn child for non-medical reasons as well. I wouldn't stay with a woman who'd do that.

Your logic is far too reasonable. It would never be accepted mainstream. Even though I agree with you 100%. I've known several men who wanted the child, but the woman did not. He was not given the right to choose. Ended two marriages because they felt the same as you, and I again, agree.

Incest, rape, things along those lines. I understand 100% the desire and need for an abortion. But you simply CANNOT wait until you're 6-9 months pregnant to decide that you no longer want the baby. Which, as far as most leftists are concerned, is still a reasonable timeframe to abort. After that first trimester, the baby can survive outside of the mothers wound, obviously in ICU and massive medical attention, but it's possible, and it has happened many times. Therefore, IMO, after that first trimester, it's pretty much equal to murder.

I think what most conservatives want to do is block women from having abortions as mean use abortions as a form of birth control. Plan parenthood offers many free products to prevent getting pregnant, you're unwilling to use them, even though they're free and harmless? You would rather get pregnant and then decide you should be responsible?

Bottom line, Democrats aren't for the people, they're for the illusion of helping folks in order to gain votes. At least the Republicans are honest and truthful about their level of crazy.

[Talon8669]

He's speaking to the logic of the statement. "What if your parents decided to use birth control?" "What if your parents decided to be celibate?" etc.

But the argument isn't against those things, it's against killing a child. Those things all prevent the conception of a child, thus couldn't be murder as no life has been conceived.

[Nurasu]

I think what most conservatives want to do is block women from having abortions as mean use abortions as a form of birth control. Plan parenthood offers many free products to prevent getting pregnant, you're unwilling to use them, even though they're free and harmless? You would rather get pregnant and then decide you should be responsible?

Bottom line, Democrats aren't for the people, they're for the illusion of helping folks in order to gain votes. At least the Republicans are honest and truthful about their level of crazy.

Why on earth do a lot of the bills Republicans are passing restrict contraceptives then? Why do they restrict payment assistance for contraception? They are not truthful about their motivations at all. Republicans want Planned Parenthood completely shuttered.

[blankfaced]

A woman should always be able to end a pregnancy. It's a parasite leaching off her body. You can claim all life is precious or what ever, but i've met more than my fair share of aholes that shoulda been stains in socks.

Oh no, she should be forced to raise it, so that kid can grow up knowing it was her moms consequence for having sex that one time? That's sure to create a mentally and emotionally stable human......

[Osmeric]

But the argument isn't against those things, it's against killing a child. Those things all prevent the conception of a child, thus couldn't be murder as no life has been conceived.

No, the argument at the top of this thread isn't about killing a child, it's about the person you are talking to not being there now.

[schwarzkopf]

Simple - they couldn't have aborted me in the first place, because I wasn't me.

[Talon8669]

You can disagree, but it is hypocritical for you to do so.

If abortion causes a potential person to never be born, then so do those other things. If they have the same effect, then an argument based on that effect applies to them as well.

No it isn't. If we're talking about life at conception then abortion would be murder, those other things simply prevent life from being conceived which isn't murder it's called prevention.....i don't feel like I should have to explain that but somehow I had to....

- - - Updated - - -

No, the argument at the top of this thread isn't about killing a child, it's about the person you are talking to not being there now.

Does that mean you're not going to respond to me anymore?

[kaazir]

Is it to much to ask that if individuals are going to engage in an activity that can lead to pregnancy that they be responsible and take the steps needed to prevent that from happening? I mean where talking about ending the life of a child because mom and dad couldn't take the time to use birth control and before you spit back that birth control isn't 100%, well there's female birth control, condoms, spermicide and soon male birth control I think the combination of all of these certainly gets you pretty damn close to 100%. There is also sterilization should you know you never want kids. Also whatever happened to taking the time to get to know someone before hoping in the sack and making sure this is someone you want to be with? Have our moral values in this country degraded so low? I understand the arguments for rape and also for at risk births but I just cannot fathom the willful killing of a child, a person yet to be given a chance at life. But perhaps that is just due to my own morality and beliefs. I know for me abortion isn't an answer and i will stand by that, if their comes a time to vote on such issues I know how i will vote. Until then I will respect the current laws of the land and others opinions on the matter regardless of whether or not I agree with them.

So part of the issue with preventing pregnancies is the lack of EDUCATION of various matters. Where you BORN knowing how to properly size a condom? Where you BORN knowing where the health department is to get generic BC? Where you BORN knowing there is no such thing as "Safe Days". Just because something EXISTS doesn't mean it's common knowledge. On my car there is a "Crankshaft position sensor" it exists but there are FEWER people who can tell me what it is and what it does than people who can't.

The issue in the states being so many wanting to block comprehensive education, as well as blocking access to personalized effective birth control by not letting insurance cover it. My wife couldn't take an OTC BC because it effected her emotions in a VERY bad way making her suicidal. Thanks to her insurance she was able to get an IUD. However many companies don't want to pay for insurance that covers BC because it goes against their CHRISTIAN beliefs and somehow it's OK in this country to favor one religion over others. People think it's OK to say "IM Christian so YOU can't have BC" but if the owner of my business was Jewish and said "IM Jewish and I don't want insurance that covers circumcisions (I got one as an adult as a medical necessity)" people would loose their damn mind.

YOUR religious belief shouldn't be used to FORCE someone else to live their life in their way. We have to SINCERELY and WILLINGLY come to Jesus and lovingly let him into our hearts to be saved. Having our hands chained and forced on our knees and told to love Jesus isn't the way to heaven.

[Queen of Hamsters]

It's never been about controlling women...It's about morality. How dense do you have to be to not understand that? Do you support men being allowed to financially abort their child? If not, then you're no better than the pro-lifers who want to "control" women.

They've literally admitted that fertilized eggs outside of a woman's body wouldn't matter, because they're not in a woman's body.
You saying it's never been about controlling women doesn't change facts. The only one that's dense, is the person ignoring facts, I'd say.

[agentsi]

Why on earth do a lot of the bills Republicans are passing restrict contraceptives then? Why do they restrict payment assistance for contraception? They are not truthful about their motivations at all. Republicans want Planned Parenthood completely shuttered.

For one simple reason.

The government shouldn't be involved in what goes on in your bedroom. The government shouldn't be responsible for playing your parent and teaching you to be responsible in terms of protection, etc. But since PP exists, and is funded to an extent, it should be used by anyone/everyone who can't afford things. This alone would cut down on most abortions. But people are lazy.

[Zeek Daniels]

My response to that argument: what if I wish that they did?

Thats a stupid argument. A better argument is why are you for the dehumanizing and killing of unborn children. The only reason abortion works in peoples minds is that they dont see cells as people. Its just like how african americans or jews in germany or slaves in a multitude of civilizations. If you tell people that _______ is not a person, or they are sub human or they are beneath you and you are greater than them it makes it much easier for them to treat _____ with zero sympathy. Its allows ______ to be enslaved, killed, or treated inhumanly.

The same goes for Abortion. Once someone views an unborn child as nothing more than a collection of cells then it becomes easy for them to separate themselves from the unborn child. What is strange is that alot of people attack the pro-life argument as being a religious argument. That its a bunch of believers or Christians who are anti abortion. Its strange that the pro-choice people who attack the pro-life argument as being a religious one seem to forget its also pro-science. Every living thing on this planet is alive not because it thinks. Its alive because it has either 1 or millions of cells. Ever heard of a single celled organism? I have. If a single celled organism is a living thing, then why is a multi celled child not a living thing. Why do the laws not apply to fertilized eggs?

The concept of being born is kinda stupid. Should we really base laws on whether or not a head comes out from between a womans legs? Or if it can support itself without aid? Ill tell you right now you take away a 1 week old child from its mother and let it fend for itself and it will be dead in a day, just like most animals in the wild. Part of child birth is carrying. Birds carry in the nest. They lay the eggs then they wait for them to hatch then they still wait by feeding their young while protecting them. Some mammals carry in their pouch? Ever seen what a kangaroo fetus looks like b4 its born? I have, If women had pouches instead of bellys that you could actually see the growth if you looked inside would it still be ok to kill the baby?


Honestly, Pro Choice people sicken me. Im african american. I was taught what my ancestors went through. I have a trace amount of native american blood in me, my great great grandmother was Cherokee. There were native americans treated like shit because they didnt have the same skin color. White people did terrible things to people they deemed less than they were. Pro-Choice advocates are todays slave owners, The millions of dead babies are this ages trail of tears. And i know this forum is mostly left wing, and will dismiss my post. But how many slave owners thought what they were doing was bad? How many southern land owners thought that forceful migration was bad? Bet you not many?

Also just because somthing is law doesnt mean its right. So law arguments always fail. Slavery was legal law, Segregation was legal law. Poll tax legal law.

Ty all have a good day.