What I dont understand of players who want vanilla wow.

[Aeula]

I'm just hyped to play a version of WoW not tainted by the various lore fuckups and terrible writing we see in the modern game.

I never got to see the old world due to first playing the game properly during very early Cataclysm. After the world was revamped. So it'll be like a new game for me, set in a Universe I enjoy without all the fuckery that came about in the last five to six years or so.

[Stricks]

Slower gameplay can be better. WoW feels spammy to me in retail. Having extremely distinct classes in classic is great. Not everyone has the ability to do everything.

[Zafire]

1) Gameplay I actually enjoy simplicity. I like Final Fantasy V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, Tactics, and X a lot more than I like 12, 13, and 15. It's not nostalgia, I go back and play them every few years. My favorite class in Final Fantasy Tactics is Dark Knight and it only has two abilities. I enjoyed Holy Paladin even though everyone else hated it because it played almost exactly like Red Mage in FFXI. Rotations don't have to be complex for me to enjoy myself. Witcher 3 is probably in my top 5 favorite RPGs of all time and the combat isn't very good.

I'm not saying I like simplicity BETTER, I'm just saying I enjoy it. It doesn't bother me.

1a) Final Fantasy 14 I had no issues with the combat in FFXIV. It did feel a little slow, but it didn't bother me. At endgame it's pretty fast, and you have to pay attention to cooldowns or you lose a lot of dps.

2) Time investment Yes, it's about the journey. I'm going to get to experience long quest chains to get dungeon quests, and I'm going to have to explore the world to get to those dungeons. That sounds like what an RPG should be.

2a) And then there is the hole raiding prep. Raiding might be way easier, but back in vanilla you litterally had to prep for the raid I'm more worried about finding a good guild than I am about having to prep.

3) YOU ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN So? I replay games all the time. You know what's going to happen running the same Mythic dungeon for the 30th time, too. I don't remember most of the old quests, and I intend to explore zones I didn't before.

[javabn]

So I'm at the same progression level as you were. My sub started 11/23/2004, even have sulfuras on my vanilla pally. My wife and I are in beta and the grind is rough and tedious. The draw for me is a couple of things:

1. ?? players and creatures. Seeing these in the realm is exciting and having to have a plan for moving around them is pretty cool.
2. Talent trees. I really miss the old talent trees. Fluff talents or not I really don't give a shit. Having something to look forward to every level is worth it.
3. Class quests. Why in the ever living F would they remove these. They are awesome, unique, exciting. Again something to look forward to.
4. Class armor. Why in the ever living F would they remove the uniqueness of class armor. I'm SICK of getting gear and looking like the next schmo.
5. Set bonuses. Looking forward to hitting that set bonus and getting that extra edge. Something to work towards.
6. Legendaries. Having the luck and the will to get these. Sulfuras crafting and the thunderfury crafting and quest chains are absolutely epic
7. Class mounts. See class quests above

I'm still subbed to wow and am 7/9m in BoD, but have basically stopped raiding till next xpac and have been for a month or so now. I would once again be a no-lifer if the devs put even 1 of the above requests back into the game. Those are for me the driving factor in wanting to attempt to grind out vanilla again.

Could not say it better myself. I miss all this. I love the BFA raids but hate the rush elsewhere. Heritage gear is nice but that's still a sleepwalk rush to 120. The only challenge now are raids and mythic dungeons > maybe +6.

[Zantera]

Not to hijack the thread but something i've thought about is:

How do you deal with the balance? If you played in classic you were living through the game as things got updated and if you played a subpar class you could at least live on the hope that "this might get good next patch". Knowing how classic played out, knowing what specs/classes are desirable, how do you avoid a scenario where 80% plays the same 3 classes? I know some people will pick whatever class they like and not care, but usually we've gone into a FOTM mentality. If you KNOW your class is gonna be mediocre at best or pretty bad through all of classic, I think you will reconsider and play something else.. in most cases.

[Synbios]

I have two main reasons for wanting to play classic. The combat mechanics for tanking were far superior in Classic/TBC than what they have become (and warriors actually had a rotation, unlike most other classes). Also, the leveling is very much flawed, but it's far more interesting than facerolling through the bland and homogenized Cataclysm-type leveling that plagues the game today.

With that said, I hope that Classic is a necessary step to TBC, which was the peak of WoW mechanics- and content-wise.

[justandulas]

I figure thats one way to look at it. Empty feeling after the inital dopamine levels in current WoW. I can sort of understand that POV.

But the hole class design goes against every single thing people QQ the most about in WoW.

the classes are broken in both vanilla and BFA; just pick which broken you prefer.

Personally, i prefer vanilla broken because at least the classes were more unique, we all suffered in some way, they had more flavor, hybrid classes were real, and as broken as everything was... everything had a place and a WHY for being there. Even if from a silly RP/AD&D perspective that did nothing but fun.

BFA broken classes feel like they were gutted of meaningful things they once had that completed them, or were shipped incomplete. There's a couple that aren't so bad, but there's several that just feel like "man did they just forget this in alpha?"

Even the broken classes in vanilla had some AD&D flavor and didn't feel like some cheap mobile version of what wow would play as.

[cparle87]

So I'm at the same progression level as you were. My sub started 11/23/2004, even have sulfuras on my vanilla pally. My wife and I are in beta and the grind is rough and tedious. The draw for me is a couple of things:

1. ?? players and creatures. Seeing these in the realm is exciting and having to have a plan for moving around them is pretty cool.
2. Talent trees. I really miss the old talent trees. Fluff talents or not I really don't give a shit. Having something to look forward to every level is worth it.
3. Class quests. Why in the ever living F would they remove these. They are awesome, unique, exciting. Again something to look forward to.
4. Class armor. Why in the ever living F would they remove the uniqueness of class armor. I'm SICK of getting gear and looking like the next schmo.
5. Set bonuses. Looking forward to hitting that set bonus and getting that extra edge. Something to work towards.
6. Legendaries. Having the luck and the will to get these. Sulfuras crafting and the thunderfury crafting and quest chains are absolutely epic
7. Class mounts. See class quests above

I'm still subbed to wow and am 7/9m in BoD, but have basically stopped raiding till next xpac and have been for a month or so now. I would once again be a no-lifer if the devs put even 1 of the above requests back into the game. Those are for me the driving factor in wanting to attempt to grind out vanilla again.

Yeah. I totally loved running around the entire world from Silverpine to Barrens and back and who knows where the hell else to learn cure poison only to learn abolish poison 2 levels later. Legendaries were not luck. The GM and his friends of good guilds got them.

[Erous]

Legendaries were not luck. The GM and his friends of good guilds got them.

Sorry that's what happened with your poor experience in vanilla. I earned mine by being the most consistent raider who didn't suck.

[yamix]

I enjoy the journey and the progression over time. Leveling is currently more enjoyable to me than the end game. I feel like anything I work on in modern WoW is just replaced 3 months later, and I would have been better off just waiting. There really are no long term goals. Now that my guild stopped raiding because people just stopped playing the game entirely, I don't have any reason to log on for raids, which was the last reason I was logging on at all.

[bluesock]

As much as this is a troll post that I can't take seriously, I do kinda agree with one thing.

1. Gameplay - So the most common complaint about BFA besides its game-systems is gameplay for all classes.

This is, surprisingly, pretty spot on. Even though BFA has pretty shitty dumbed down gameplay it's still leagues above and more interactive than Vanilla ever was (maybe with the exception of PVP, because at high level you did have to do a lot of nuanced things that get mostly ignored nowadays in retail, and a lot of engagement from engineering/trinket swapping). I'm in awe every time someone mentions how "bad" retail wow's gameplay is compared to Vanilla.

[shadowmatrix]

I'm just hyped to play a version of WoW not tainted by the various lore fuckups and terrible writing we see in the modern game.

I never got to see the old world due to first playing the game properly during very early Cataclysm. After the world was revamped. So it'll be like a new game for me, set in a Universe I enjoy without all the fuckery that came about in the last five to six years or so.

The Warcraft lore was already fucked up in vanilla since it was just going to be a 2 year project at best.

[Mysterymask]

...based on the forums...and subtext I think its the following on why they want it..

1. The Community: A lot of people's friends left wow...for many people on the forums they wholeheartedly believe it must be because of changes that happened to wow which drove them away and replaced all the good people of Vanilla with the assholes they have today..so bringing back Vanilla will bring back the people and wow will be amazing again! Possibly maybe everyone's behavior will magically change and we can actually have friends in wow again it isn't my shitty personality its Blizzard's fault!...Will it happen only time will tell

2. Unfinished Business: Only 1% of the playerbase completed Naxx in its original state..of which that completely disappeared with the release of Wrath of the Lich King along with the gear and quests going along with it. Many people wish to possibly become one of those Elite few who can say "Hey we cleared Old Naxx so we are hard core!" "Hey look at me with my Atiesh aren't I amazing!" Not really realizing that it will probably get a point where Everyone cleared it so its no longer special...once again time will tell. Same would go for potentially the Scarab Lord title that a huge chunk of the population thinks they are going to get now.

3. Live the Stories: Many newer players probably...definitely heard about the stories of week long AVs, Raids that barely anyone could get through, GIANT SOUTH SHORE BATTLEGROUNDS, THE COMMUNITY™, etc etc and long to see if these magical stories are true...your going to get a lot of people jumping in to possibly live out the glory days of WOW! Will that happen...maybe but only time can tell.

4. A lost love: Probably the best reason to get it for me. Say you want to play some Super Mario Bros 1. I mean yes 3 is superior and Odyssey is amazing you want to play the original cause it hits a few spots in your brain that makes you feel AMAZING... there is NOTHING stopping you from playing that game its there in both legal and illegal varieties and you can essentially play it completely intact or even modified lightly to your hearts content....
That isn't the same thing with wow until classic...everything that was there in original vanilla wow is essentially gone thanks to Cataclysm. The old talents are gone, the old style of classes, most of the 5 mans and a few of the raids...basically all gone. Until later this year there was NO way to go back and play this legally and you essentially were either stuck with current wow, playing on a private server that is ever so different and always has a chance to be Cease and Desisted away at a moments notice, or bitching on MMO Champion on how it should be there.

[cparle87]

The Warcraft lore was already fucked up in vanilla since it was just going to be a 2 year project at best.

It was messed up long before WoW. In WC1 we had heaven and hell, angels and god belief, Kil'jaeden being nothing but Gul'dan's tutor and afraid of Medivh, and a ton of other stuff. WC2 came around and half of WC1 was retconned. Then WC3 did even more. It's called early installment weirdness. Like when Superman was an ass or Batman executed someone with a gun.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry that's what happened with your poor experience in vanilla. I earned mine by being the most consistent raider who didn't suck.

You expect me to believe that you got the Eye of Sulfuras over the GM/main tank or something like that? Pull the other, it has bells.

[Gref]

community. Everybody will know me as I will. They will ask me for profession works, attunements, party quests, dungeons etc.
when I see a name on ab I will go; fuck that guy is here? shit... same as the guys on the other side. I am looking forward to mean something in the world. reminds me my ultima online days.

[Spazlord]

I'm having plenty of fun in BFA so I don't get all the bandwagon negativity about it tbh, the game's been this way for ages now, it's a dungeon/raid lobby with some half-assed RPG elements. A borderline Diablo 3 clone hack'n'slash.

I preferred the game when it had a lot more RPG elements. When dungeons were a time consuming adventure and you died, regularly. When group members didn't leave the group on a dime, because they needed the group, and the group needed them, and you were in it for 2 hours come hell or high water. When people made a point of helping each other to finish dungeon quests, and fight elite mobs. Hell, when people actually walked their own ass to the dungeon.

When even quest mobs hit hard and you had to pull carefully and sneak your ass through danger all the time. When escort quests filled you with dread. When quests sent you across the known world to explore.

When tanking was more than just run / AOE / stun / next. Threat was a micro-managed, AOE barely existed and utility was worth more than damage.

When healing was a mana game.

When DPS was a threat game.

There are a lot of things to like in the older game that have been discarded in the newer game, and the bonus is that they force the community to be cooperative instead of insular.

[kaiba1]

So I recently took a look at this hole debate on youtube, but I want to know what the people of mmo-c thinks, cause useally Im more allegnid here.
Will try to make the post not to long, but will probably fail...PS I was a no-lifer, 5 bosses naxx40 down in vanilla wow, played the fuck out of it as a druid...


1. Gameplay - So the most common complaint about BFA besides its game-systems is gameplay for all classes. MAAANY people keep saying that Blizzard could have made the best gameplay systems (raids, 5 mans, solo content, pvp) ever, but if the classes are boring so is rest of the game no matter what - Yes, I read this every day on general wow.

So now look at Vanilla WoW. Many classes have no real rotation, its just spammy with few abilities. Very slow movement skils, not much to do, and the few nieche things that takes skills, are kinda dumb and unbalanced anyway (thinking mostly pvp here)

And then comes the raiding scene. Most fights are extremely stand still, and your rotation on those bosses are super simple. I do however think current mythic-bosses kinda since MOP has gotten way to convoluted with way to much mechanical shit, but vanilla is a snore fest - Just look how easy raids will be cleared unless blizzard tunes it to modern players.


...Also just speciel notice to Final Fantasy 14. People QQ (with good reason) over its slow combat with the global CD's so much, its what seems to ruin the level exp, until you get to max level, but they still seem fine with vanilla "fast phased" gameplay.

2. Time investment. What does the 2019 gamer do? He plays 20 mins rounds of PUBG, or chills on his phone. What does vanilla need of him? About 200-300 hours of played JUST for lvling to 60. 24x11...or w/e fast speed you can do it in.

Will people accept everything being much, much slower? Is it more about the journey? Cause let me tell you; On retail we wanna get shit done ASAP. We dont wanna wait around wasting our time. We try to play efficiently and all that crap. I do anyway. Just look at the expansion launches where people rush through content.

And then there is the hole raiding prep. Raiding might be way easier, but back in vanilla you litterally had to prep for the raid. Grinding gold so you could even afford pots or a flask for the night. Most raiders in wow now a days raids 1-2 times a week for 5-7 hours. I could easily play 7 hours a day...2 hours prep before raid for gold making etc, and then 4-5 hour raiding that night.

ALSO! Fun with the hole time = overcome shit, even if you are a bad player. This is not so much a thing now since we're all way better players, but I sucked ass back then, but just because I spent the time grinding I got somewhere despite being a shit-tier clicking with almost no keybinds 14-15 year old...


3. YOU ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN! Right now I will bet my ass some guy is already making new addons just for vanilla wow, people making guides on youtube, and icy veins will tell you the best classes and specs.

There is no exploration, its Azeroth Auto pilot x 100. Old content dosent have any surprises.


As soon as servers goes live you know everything you need to do.


PS lvling was never hard in vanilla, just classes sucked without many abilities or broken specs. Yes you can only pull 2 mobs instead of 5. Not a big deal, just slower and clunkier. I WILL HOWEVER SAY! Some quests in vanilla wow was truely hard, compared to the quests we have now, aka requiring group up, or very good play to solo...Here I think about stuff like Redridge elite quests in the top of the zone etc.


4. It still cost a sub, with no updates (unless changes comes due to massive succes), risky?. I hope after all this hole thing will be a succes for Blizzard cause gut knows we need it. Even I am starting to fear for Blizzards well being financially.


Thanks. Again I dont understand these blind vanilla followers. Game only got better up to like...I guess WOTLK (I kinda more want a TBC realm). Im not saying retail wow is any good atm, but vanilla for me is only worse. Just for one thing...no hybrids allowed. All classes that can heal has to heal, at least in proper PvE scenarios. And no off-tanking in Molten core is not amazing, we did it back then as well with druids...I played my druid as main back then as I am now

Cheers.

Players, like me for instance, want our 50 to 60 bucks to be worth it, not for a weeks worth of play, then get bored of it, if that was the case id go to gamestop, buy a game lets say uhh... Tomb Raider for instance, play it for a week, beat it, then return it to get a partial refund back (knowing gamestop its like 5 bucks lol) but thats how I feel about the issue, theres nothing wrong with how the game looks, its how it plays, its catered to the casuals, because they bitched and whined about things SO much that now, infants age 2 could play this game, and probably play it better than some people I have seen play.

We want the gameplay experience to be worth our time and money that we pay monthly and right now, were not getting that.

[unbound]

1. Gameplay - So the most common complaint about BFA besides its game-systems is gameplay for all classes.

Let me help you a bit with these questions.

Gameplay today is boring because all the ranged classes play pretty much exactly the same. All the melee classes play pretty much exactly the same. Same for tanks and healers. Don't believe me? Jump into a raid with a mage...then do that same raid on a warlock, or a hunter, or a shadow priest. You will be standing in the same places doing the same thing.

In Vanilla, you didn't have every class with pretty much the same powers doing exactly the same things. You actually had to use cc, so a class with cc had different responsibilities...and your tactics had to change a bit depending on what classes were with you.

It wasn't about rotations. And even bringing up rotations on your part is pretty telling. Modern WoW has gotten so watered down that players think rotation is everything now.

2. Time investment. What does the 2019 gamer do? He plays 20 mins rounds of PUBG, or chills on his phone. What does vanilla need of him? About 200-300 hours of played JUST for lvling to 60. 24x11...or w/e fast speed you can do it in.

The journey was just as much fun for many of us. But what you actually put in your question is not actually accurate. It should be "What does the 2019 gamer like me do?".

And that really answers this question for you. Classic WoW is not for you. But there are literally millions of people like me who Classic WoW is for. And that is exactly what Blizz's intent with Classic WoW...not to provide a game for you, but to provide a game for me and the millions like me who would enjoy it.

3. YOU ALREADY KNOW EVERYTHING THAT WILL HAPPEN! Right now I will bet my ass some guy is already making new addons just for vanilla wow, people making guides on youtube, and icy veins will tell you the best classes and specs.

So? Why are you still playing retail? We already know everything. Heck, we already know everything about 8.2, and it isn't even out yet.

Guess what we had in Vanilla long ago. Add-ons, and web pages (youtube wasn't such the big thing back then) complete with people telling you what the best classes and specs were (called Elitist Jerks). Pretty much the same as what you have today (well, more youtube and less web pages, but pretty much the same thing).

This isn't really a very good point, now is it?

As soon as servers goes live you know everything you need to do.

See the response above. This isn't a very good point when you actually think about it.

4. It still cost a sub, with no updates (unless changes comes due to massive succes), risky?. I hope after all this hole thing will be a succes for Blizzard cause gut knows we need it. Even I am starting to fear for Blizzards well being financially.

Yep...that is exactly what Blizz is looking to gain from this. But people paid to play WoD for well over a year with no updates, so once again, this isn't a very good point when you actually think about it.

[Ferrair]

Been saying this for a while now.

Vanilla was great because of the community. The Chuck Norris jokes, the friendly players always willing to help out and the guild.

The jumping glitches to reach places you cant go like Hyjal, emerald dream, stormwind airport?, underground orgrimmar, karazahn crypts.

Without that, Vanilla is just a buggy WoW. Or in this case, "been there done that".

I remember guilds had websites, and meet ups every Tuesday at a cafe or bar during maintenance, man those were the good old days.

That said, BfA is the absolute worst. Even some of my hardcore friends who have played since Vanilla are slowing down, the same people who played WoD everyday, farming and raiding til Legion, are slowly giving up on BfA. 8.2 needs to be the next coming of Jesus at this point.

[Xecks]

sounds like you should just play retail and be happy.

but that would be the smart thing to do so you know, you probably wont do it and continue to bitch and moan on the forums.